EPT[D] Counter to Immortal/Sentry/zealot - Page 2
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On April 22 2010 06:00 Markwerf wrote: Hellions are a underused unit against protoss. They unfortunately get countered by stalkers/immortals as well so it doesn't really help with countering that. Marauder hellion is very effective though, later on when you get more upgrades pure MMM gets better probably but a hellion/marauder opening is quite good. I wouldn't say they get countered by Stalkers and Immortals. I'd say they take the hits, so your Marauders don't have to. Since its the only units the Protoss has to kill them, and his Zealots/Sentries are horribly exposed to them, it takes a while for Stalkers and Immortals to kill Hellions, giving your Marauders plenty of time to get their shots off. I can imagine the strat working pretty good, but, if his army consists of nothing but Stalkers/Immortals, you're pretty much SOL. Of course, all you need at that point is more Marauders. You just need to scout and make sure you're dealing with a combined Light/Armoured force, or pure Armoured, and even then, if there's enough Light in there to warrant the Hellion upgrade, particularly. If it were me, I'd probably make a Reactor at the Factory, keep building Marauders, scout him as he leaves his base and if you see a lot of Light in there, start pumping out Hellions like mad, otherwise keep pumping Marauders. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
And no, you can't switch to tank/thor after seeing that your opponent is going stalker/immortal heavy. Thor's 250mm barrage does not counter immortals at all in an army vs army battle. | ||
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Silent_Tao
Israel87 Posts
On April 22 2010 04:37 Tiamat wrote: oh and a good transition is to 2-3 port banshee, because you will have a ton of gas since you are not using it on stim, combat shields, siege mode, ghosts etc. Not sure it's the best idea, concidering the counter to hellions is probably massing stalkers which are doing pretty good vs banshees two. Switching to siege tanks could be pretty cool though. | ||
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
On April 22 2010 06:50 Silent_Tao wrote: Not sure it's the best idea, concidering the counter to hellions is probably massing stalkers which are doing pretty good vs banshees two. Switching to siege tanks could be pretty cool though. Banshees can kill stalkers for cost, and of course a tank or two would not hurt. | ||
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Saintmek
China61 Posts
most P just blindly immortal push in PvT games, but hellions overrun them cuz its so cheap in mineral and cost no gas | ||
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phexac
United States186 Posts
Neither of them made the slightest attempts to scout or adjust to what you were doing. I want to see what happens if a competent player sees this and goes ok, I'm just gona mass stalkers and immortals and have good army size and positioning. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
Its not even remotely conceivable to me why they'd turn the Wraith into a ground-stomping monstrosity. By the time I can get an Observer, or Hallucination into a Terran base, he can already have 2 Banshees almost finished. Then I somehow, miraculously, need to get sufficient air defenses to hold them off in both my base AND my ground force before I can go anywhere. Its just...unbelievable. Its worse than Mutas. A Banshee can do 24 damage every 1.25 seconds, which is 19.2 DPS. A Stalker does 14 damage every 1.44 seconds, which is 9.7 DPS. A Banshee, costing a mere 150/100 can take on twice its number in Stalkers for crying out loud. They are SOO punishing against a Protoss who isn't absolutely massing Stalkers like a damn lunatic. Nevermind cloaking and instagibbing Observers with Vikings and COMSAT. Once they get Cloak, you might as well just give up. So, Terrans, exploit that while you can. I'm pretty sure it won't last long. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
On April 22 2010 16:27 Bibdy wrote: Go fast Banshees, with a bunker full of Marauders for defense and exploit Protoss' terrible GtA while you can. I'm convinced those things are getting nerfed sometime soon. Its absolutely, unequivocably godamned stupid how strong Banshees are against Protoss. Its not even remotely conceivable to me why they'd turn the Wraith into a ground-stomping monstrosity. By the time I can get an Observer, or Hallucination into a Terran base, he can already have 2 Banshees almost finished. Then I somehow, miraculously, need to get sufficient air defenses to hold them off in both my base AND my ground force before I can go anywhere. Its just...unbelievable. Its worse than Mutas. A Banshee can do 24 damage every 1.25 seconds, which is 19.2 DPS. A Stalker does 14 damage every 1.44 seconds, which is 9.7 DPS. A Banshee, costing a mere 150/100 can take on twice its number in Stalkers for crying out loud. They are SOO punishing against a Protoss who isn't absolutely massing Stalkers like a damn lunatic. Nevermind cloaking and instagibbing Observers with Vikings and COMSAT. Once they get Cloak, you might as well just give up. So, Terrans, exploit that while you can. I'm pretty sure it won't last long. The game is more complicated than that. The very fact that terran rushes for banshees and stay commited that means 1 base so a proper response from protoss would be to expand cannon stalkers defense. A banshee can beat stalkers alone and cannons alone but not both. And then from there protoss will just roll 1 base terran over with 50 stalkers from 2 bases. And regarding to OP hellion marauder is very sweet, but rather than huge balls clashing, I can see protoss use stalkers and little bit of micro and pull back to snipe hellions and not take fire from marauders. Sounds like fun though! Immortal/stalker vs Hellion/marauder micro. Superior micro wins. And one more thing. Marines are indeed underwhelming when guardian shield is available but once stim gets researched, marines are quite powerful once again. Easily mow down sentries and then instantly gain 2 more dmg back. | ||
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Setev
Malaysia390 Posts
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Setev
Malaysia390 Posts
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Setev
Malaysia390 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On April 22 2010 17:37 Rucky wrote: And one more thing. Marines are indeed underwhelming when guardian shield is available but once stim gets researched, marines are quite powerful once again. Easily mow down sentries and then instantly gain 2 more dmg back. There is a very easy solution to defend the Sentries who provide protection for the Immortals: Put them on FOLLOW to the Immortals. Since Guardian Shield costs 100 energy a Protoss player might want to split his Sentries into two control groups anyway, so he does not bring a Sentry below 100 energy by casting a Forcefield. That way you have maybe 3 Sentries whose sole purpose is to follow Immortals and provide Guardian Shield, while the others are up front and provide Forcefield annoyance cover. You can only shoot what you can reach and a Sentry behind the Immortal will be the last target you reach OR you have to run through the whole Protoss army that is shooting you just to get to the Sentries in the back ... AND hope that he doesnt cut you off with Forcefield. This tactic would leave only air or sieged Tanks with any chance of killing the Guardian Shields. | ||
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faction123
Belgium949 Posts
On April 22 2010 16:27 Bibdy wrote: Go fast Banshees, with a bunker full of Marauders for defense and exploit Protoss' terrible GtA while you can. I'm convinced those things are getting nerfed sometime soon. Its absolutely, unequivocably godamned stupid how strong Banshees are against Protoss. Its not even remotely conceivable to me why they'd turn the Wraith into a ground-stomping monstrosity. By the time I can get an Observer, or Hallucination into a Terran base, he can already have 2 Banshees almost finished. Then I somehow, miraculously, need to get sufficient air defenses to hold them off in both my base AND my ground force before I can go anywhere. Its just...unbelievable. Its worse than Mutas. A Banshee can do 24 damage every 1.25 seconds, which is 19.2 DPS. A Stalker does 14 damage every 1.44 seconds, which is 9.7 DPS. A Banshee, costing a mere 150/100 can take on twice its number in Stalkers for crying out loud. They are SOO punishing against a Protoss who isn't absolutely massing Stalkers like a damn lunatic. Nevermind cloaking and instagibbing Observers with Vikings and COMSAT. Once they get Cloak, you might as well just give up. So, Terrans, exploit that while you can. I'm pretty sure it won't last long. what does this rambling have to do with this thread? | ||
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gedassan
Lithuania83 Posts
 I would have built marines+marauders and failed, because zealots+sentry+immortal are pretty good against that composition.Tried this yesterday on Desert Oasis. I scouted the robo build and continued with marauders from 2 barracks (with a few marines mixed in just in case) and hellions from a reactored factory. In the open field we met some zealots, 2-3 sentries, a stalker and 2-3 immortals. After the clash, they backed up fast, losing zealots and sentries; one immortal made it back. (this was the main value of my hellions in this build vs gate/immortal push, they allowed me not to lose on my way to the opponents base). I didn't get up the ramp because he had stalkers warped in and I chickened out. Hellions could not get through, marauders crowded behind them, so I backed up a bit. But I had map control then. I expanded to an island and continued massing ground. Added banshees. He expanded to natural. Built many stalkers, got collosi, but only moved out a couple of times, and my army of marauders/hellions/banshees/vikings was enough to stop them. I expanded for the second time - to my natural, massed banshees, got a few more vikings and won thanks to banshees. Edit: about putting sentries behind immortals - actually hellions can run around that, if you meet in the open field. They are really superior in speed. | ||
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
This opening allows you to expand safely against everything except maybe a void ray rush. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On April 22 2010 16:27 Bibdy wrote: A Banshee can do 24 damage every 1.25 seconds, which is 19.2 DPS. A Stalker does 14 damage every 1.44 seconds, which is 9.7 DPS. A Banshee, costing a mere 150/100 can take on twice its number in Stalkers for crying out loud. They are SOO punishing against a Protoss who isn't absolutely massing Stalkers like a damn lunatic. Nevermind cloaking and instagibbing Observers with Vikings and COMSAT. Once they get Cloak, you might as well just give up. So, Terrans, exploit that while you can. I'm pretty sure it won't last long. Can you be any more of a moron? Let's forget that stalkers cost 1/2 the gas, have 160 hp and are T1.5. A T3 banshee can barely take on one stalker 1on1 even without sentry sheild. It's completely obvious that Stalker/sentry >> Banshee for cost in a straight fight. | ||
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