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On April 14 2010 10:43 BrTarolg wrote:I saved you the trouble of some replays Equilateral is a pretty strong (top of his division) plat player - by no means the very best but a very strong, decent mechanical player I am a middle level plat player at best Watch me absolutely destroy him when he FE's. Twice. not to mention this is extremely difficult to defend even if you dont fast expand - note that i deliberately didnt make early units (in fact the chronod immortal comes in time for a mara rush) because i didnt scout any reaper rush or anything like that (though to be fair, the true build order makes 2 stalkers) Note my poor macro and mechanics also, missing chronoboosts (and being unsure what to chronoboost a lot of the time aswell, i THINK i should be boosting warptech so i can drop gates earlier and then maybe do the first push using the pylon in the middle of the map instead) not only that, i dont even push with my first immortal + 2 stalkers leaving them lulling around not doing anything By no means are either of us 100% perfect but you get the gist of it. Oh, and voidray rush is lul. http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/1330http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/1331edit: oh btw @ some of the eu players on this thread I'm looking for more practise partners (a lot of mine have gone inactive) - so please pm me, hassybaby.hasybaby is me (its a shared acc but 99% of the time its me) edit: oh as a little kicker, remember this thread? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119468I pm'ed day9 also. No answer as of yet.
The purpose of a one base timing push is to punish greedy FE players no? I don't see whats wrong with that. If he had done one base play and still had no way of defending 4gate robo then that's a different problem...
also I don't believe getting stim over conc shells is the right choice (for the first game). He won't even have medevacs to heal the marauders and he could have picked off an immortal and like 2 stalkers if he had his conc shell upgrade done. Conc shells cost 50 less min/gas and finish 60 seconds faster.
For the second game instead of 1 tech lab 2 reactor rax, 2 tech lab 1 reactor (or even 2 tech lab and 2 reg rax) would be better. Building a second bunker would have helped.
Perhaps instead of holding units at his own ramp he needs to put them at your ramp to delay the reinforcing pylon?
I'll be sure to try this in my games today
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Yes, I feel the same way. I've been having trouble TvP against computer. 
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On April 14 2010 10:22 DeMusliM wrote:
ah ok posted it in the wrong place, my bad.
But yeh, the last game i played i went 3 rax no expo attempt, had 7 rines 5 rauders and a ghost sat in bunkers/behind my wall - and he managed to break in and cripple me to the point i had to bring all my scvs. I was literally shocked that the fact i was using every resource on units not even teching and i couldn't stop this push - like surely something is wrong with that?
As for any possible comments about micro, i didn't lose 1 unit, not even my scouting scv i knew exactly what he was doing - but i couldn't counter it. Eventually he just got DTs with an expo up and i was out of the running. It feels as if there is literally no viable strategy to go right now, and it's just go a weird strat and hope the protoss makes mistakes - i'm just not enjoying this matchup at all - i really hope the next patch comes soon, as i know there is no miracle cure to this without one.
- By the way, does anyone else feel that after 8 patches, we're kinda circling round obvious problems and leaving them be, rather than fixing the the main bulk of things?
Hey man!
I was thinking, since Marauders didn't get the damage nerf (only removed concussion, but still that can be researched at tech lab), you can go heavier marauder? Like 8 marauders 2 marines instead of 7 marines 3 marauders. I still think heavy damage is the Terran doctrine, and if you add ghost, medivac, and vikings for late game you should be able to win, no?
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Can we just like, merge this thread with mine =P
Seriously if it warrants 2 threads, it's probably a problem.
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Why does stalker have a 42 second build time and the immortal have a 40 second build time? I always thought that this was a bit lopsided. Seems like 45 or 50 seconds would even things out a bit. In retrospect, colossus is a 75 second build time and siege tank is a 45 second build time. Comparatively, 50 seconds for the immortal seems a little more reasonable.
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stalker has a faster build time after warpgate, no? And if siege tanks are 45 then 40 immortal isn't really that unreasonable. Not that 50 would be horrible either
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I'm by no means a great player (or even that good if i'm being honest) I recently got promoted to platinum and i'm ranked 6 in a pretty non-competitive division, so I don't think that means much. However I know when a build feels strong, right now (i'm in the EU) I find Zerg pretty easy to beat and i'm having ALOT of problems against T's using this build or something similar.
Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?dymf2qmkewo
In this game I do screw up the initial push pretty badly as he snipes my obs before I arrive, however I don't see what difference it really would have made.
From my point of view what I could have done differently:
Instead of going collosus tech I guess I should have gone twilight council -> zealot speed/HT's to counteract his maurauders. However I can't see how I could have got HT's with storm out in time for his counter push and his ground army just destroys mine, even though we have the same upgrades and I have more food.
Even if I managed to get the storms ready he probably would have just spammed EMP and got lucky with them. I don't see how anyone can say storm is OP when Terran basically get an instant 100 AoE damage vs any toss army, which also shows cloaked units and drains energy..
Feel free to criticise my replay, like I said I don't think i'm good, just trying to throw out some suggestions of what is beating me at the moment (this and fake maurauders into well hidden mass banshees).
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DeMusliM I feel the exact same way. TvP just feels like an huge uphill battle every game. I've tried a few different builds but nothing seems to be very reliable or solid with much consistency.
The last three sc2 tournaments I've been in I have been knocked out by TvP every time. I almost want to start learning PvP or ZvP but I figure they MUST patch it. But then they'd probably mess up PvZ balance so I don't know what they'll do.
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This really puzzles me. I'm not professing to be a top player, but I have moved into top 30ish platinum league after a few weeks with next to no Brood War experience. As a Protoss player, the one thing I have learned to fear the most is EMP. Thus far it has been the deciding factor every time I play against Terran. When it's used properly (which doesn't seem difficult considering it's not that far of a tech and getting feedback off first is very hard) it effectively halves the life of the majority of my army.
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Zurich15310 Posts
On April 14 2010 10:22 DeMusliM wrote:
But yeh, the last game i played i went 3 rax no expo attempt, had 7 rines 5 rauders and a ghost sat in bunkers/behind my wall - and he managed to break in and cripple me to the point i had to bring all my scvs. I was literally shocked that the fact i was using every resource on units not even teching and i couldn't stop this push - like surely something is wrong with that?
Can you please post this replay and/or the game mentioned in the OP? I would very much like to see that.
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tvp is a joke and it's hilarious 99% of toss deny it. Can't wait for next patch.
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It is definitely a joke. So many people were bitching about marauders, which were probably slightly imbalanced at best (and only in TvP). After the concussive shell nerf terran have to pull off something miraculous to beat good protoss.
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On April 14 2010 14:34 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 10:22 DeMusliM wrote:
But yeh, the last game i played i went 3 rax no expo attempt, had 7 rines 5 rauders and a ghost sat in bunkers/behind my wall - and he managed to break in and cripple me to the point i had to bring all my scvs. I was literally shocked that the fact i was using every resource on units not even teching and i couldn't stop this push - like surely something is wrong with that? Can you please post this replay and/or the game mentioned in the OP? I would very much like to see that.
Definitely want to see this replay.
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TvP right now is laughable and this is coming from a protoss player (though only 1350+ Gold (rank 2 in league)). It just seems I can screw up badly, lose 5 probes to early reaper harass, forget pylons, screw up attacks, fail drops and still win. (not in the same game obviously) Terran just isn't a threat early game as he used to be, meaning that I can tech uber fast and put some serious pressure on my opponent while still expanding safely.
4 gate warp rush wins the game right on the spot if he did ANY sort of FE and can really pressure him if he sits behind a wall as well. Meanwhile I can safely expand, tech up and whore probes like a madman. Fair? No. Challenging? Not by any fraction of the imagination.
I've stopped using the immortal rush in PvT 'cause it is boring. Again, if T FE's the game just ends, unless you pull off an amazing EMP. On one base I will happily camp your nat preventing you from expanding, while I do so myself. GL with those 3-4 immortals, 'cause they aint going down easily.
Terran needs something, since the only thing I see as being viable right now is some sort of cheese: everything you can throw at us in a standard game is fairly easy to shrug off. I still say mech needs to be more viable: tanks should cost 2 supply and their cost lowered. Marauders should perhaps get their slow back, but in energy form (IE the slow cost 5 energy per shot and the marauder starts with 50 or so) just so T can retain some sort of map control in the early game.
Also Immortals need to be nerfed. Not into the ground, but right now the only counter to this unit is air, meaning I control the map if you decide to stick to ground. I go stalker/zeal/sentry/immortal and I would like to see you break that without sick sick EMPs. I say tone their damage down abit vs armoured (50 lol) and make hardened shield a 200/200 upgrade somewhere. They are sick enough as it is.
GL with TvP - you need it, and lots of it.
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Could someone explain to me why this match-up is any harder this patch than last? Because we need to research concussive shells now?
I haven't noticed a difference. Ghosts still clean house. Banshee rushes can be very successful. Tanks are amazing and with ghosts knocking off immortal shields, it works even better.
Don't write off tanks so quickly just because they need more micro. Thors can do work vs immortals if you bring SCVs to repair and use their special ability on the immortals.
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banshees really are good vs p, the problem after the patch is that you will die before you get banshees vs a solid toss that goes 3-4 warp gates T_T
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This isn't helping much, but I found 1 basing and building an insane amount of rax (starting with 4 and finishing up with something like 7) and just doing a timed push just as he gets his first immortal is the best way to go.
I only say that it doesn't help much because im a ~1250 player in silver. I found that if you try to through in marauders you don't have quite the same firepower, and the sole immortal tends to go down pretty quickly against a stack of units. Just rally outside his base and keep pumping out marines and it should be gg.
It's a crappy way to win, though.
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On April 14 2010 15:40 Vexx wrote:
Could someone explain to me why this match-up is any harder this patch than last? Because we need to research concussive shells now?
I haven't noticed a difference. Ghosts still clean house. Banshee rushes can be very successful. Tanks are amazing and with ghosts knocking off immortal shields, it works even better.
I think it's because pre-patch 8, Terran players could early push Protoss and attempt to cause some damage or win the game outright.
Now, the 80 seconds make it so that Terran usually can't reach Protoss until after the first Immortal is out.
Personally, though, I don't think it's such a big change. I think Terran just need to get ghosts out earlier and cut back on the amount of marauders.
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I can explain how TvP became so broken. It all boils down with the marine nerf Marines take way to long to build. We didnt see it before because rokkits "covered up" the issue but once they were patched out, terran cannot mass marines in time to stop protoss. I believe if they reverse the reactor nerf and the marine build time nerf things would be better
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I also do not like these matchup, but am concerned about balance too.
I usually just lurk here, but this post is a concern to me. I played random until mid patch 7 and went terran. Last patch terran felt very strong all game vs. protoss and I felt bad for using so many marauders. This patch I still use many marauders but do not get the same control until I have upgraded them and have enough to overpower immortals.
I think that our marauders and their immortals both need more nerfs so that terran against protoss is more about mech, but I do not think that we need map control that we had in patch 7. Not being able to fast expand against an all-in is not our problem. Nobody should be able to expand vs. all-in and get away with it. The problem is when we both emphasize units early game and terran loose to an equal army push.
Sorry if my english is bad. =/
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EPT
