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[H] Holding off Super Fast Reaper? - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
April 06 2010 16:59 GMT
#101
Are you guys kidding? Reaper is not a problem at all. Massive whine thread, when every good protoss gets their stalker out and stops it with 1 probe loss, if not two, and they're still sort of ahead of T half the time lmao.

and for gods sake, when you make the zealot don't simply chase the reaper with it, use 1-3 probes with the zealot to try to trap it and kill it, then ur stalker comes out chrono boosted and you're fine.
Sup
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
April 06 2010 17:14 GMT
#102
On April 05 2010 19:44 goszar wrote:
Strangely no one is proposing simple solution: lower the build time of Cybernetics core by about 15 seconds. This will help with both Reaper and Marauder issue.


I love this. It's so simple, gdamn. Everyone's talking about "build zealot first" "no go cannon" "no those don't work." If the cyber core build time reduces by that amount, it still gives a terran ~15s to do his harass (making this strategy still somewhat possible) and lets the protoss get his counter unit in earlier. wow. I feel so bad for not having considered this earlier.
Sup.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 06 2010 19:01 GMT
#103
Lowering the Cybernetics Core build time by 15 seconds is not a simple fix as the effects on any game that doesn't involve reaper rushing would have to be considered as well.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
April 06 2010 23:25 GMT
#104
Lowering cybern. core would be a awful solution, it would entirely speed teching by 15 secs in every matchup, ie 15 secs faster immortal, 15 secs faster void rays etc. It would take out a teching requirement so intrinsic to protoss, way too big a change in my opinion.
If this build is problematic at all, which I doubt it is, the reaper would just have to be adjusted imo. It's just a ugly design at the moment.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
April 06 2010 23:49 GMT
#105
On April 07 2010 01:59 avilo wrote:
Are you guys kidding? Reaper is not a problem at all. Massive whine thread, when every good protoss gets their stalker out and stops it with 1 probe loss, if not two, and they're still sort of ahead of T half the time lmao.

and for gods sake, when you make the zealot don't simply chase the reaper with it, use 1-3 probes with the zealot to try to trap it and kill it, then ur stalker comes out chrono boosted and you're fine.


You act like 1: Getting a full surround on a reaper does anything because they won't just push the probes out of the way

and 2: like the reaper won't just snipe these probes as he's running.

I've mathematically proven it's impossible to hold off, so please go troll elsewhere, thanks.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 06 2010 23:57 GMT
#106
On April 07 2010 08:49 -orb- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2010 01:59 avilo wrote:
Are you guys kidding? Reaper is not a problem at all. Massive whine thread, when every good protoss gets their stalker out and stops it with 1 probe loss, if not two, and they're still sort of ahead of T half the time lmao.

and for gods sake, when you make the zealot don't simply chase the reaper with it, use 1-3 probes with the zealot to try to trap it and kill it, then ur stalker comes out chrono boosted and you're fine.


You act like 1: Getting a full surround on a reaper does anything because they won't just push the probes out of the way

and 2: like the reaper won't just snipe these probes as he's running.

I've mathematically proven it's impossible to hold off, so please go troll elsewhere, thanks.


Orb. Hate to say it, but it's fine. I just checked it myself just to see if I was mistaken, and I'm not.

Always open 10 pylon (9 chrono)/11 gate/13 gas/16 core/17 pylon and save a chrono for your stalker.

If he opens 10/10/11 reaper rush your core finishes as his reaper finishes. On LT on adjacent positions my stalker finished as his reaper entered my base. I lost I think 1 probe.

If he opens a true cheese, 8 rax 8 ref your stalker is going to be about 10 seconds late. Just threaten his reaper with probes if he goes for your pylon, and then once your stalker is out you're fine.

If he's opening with a marauder you can just make a zealot and follow up with a sentry and you're fine.

If you really don't believe me I'll show you in person. I'm on right now.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
ImBa_JaCkAsS
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada200 Posts
April 06 2010 23:59 GMT
#107
I ain't toss player but I think getting one zealot to get off some hits and stalker is better
than no zealot rushing for stalker
5 Pool for late games
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 07 2010 00:23 GMT
#108
On April 07 2010 08:59 ImBa_JaCkAsS wrote:
I ain't toss player but I think getting one zealot to get off some hits and stalker is better
than no zealot rushing for stalker


I think you're wrong.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
April 07 2010 00:40 GMT
#109
Orb, the only thing that you've mathematically proven is that US terrans apparently are magically better than the EU ones, as EU Terrans somehow can't pull this build off properly - because it never damaged me / put me behind yet - at all. Or maybe my standard build simply counters this with some micro.

Take your pick!

Proxy rax marauder is another thing, I'll give you that (but we aren't talking about marauders here, are we?).
Complete the cycle!
DreamShake
Profile Joined June 2008
Peru120 Posts
April 07 2010 01:26 GMT
#110
On April 07 2010 08:49 -orb- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2010 01:59 avilo wrote:
Are you guys kidding? Reaper is not a problem at all. Massive whine thread, when every good protoss gets their stalker out and stops it with 1 probe loss, if not two, and they're still sort of ahead of T half the time lmao.

and for gods sake, when you make the zealot don't simply chase the reaper with it, use 1-3 probes with the zealot to try to trap it and kill it, then ur stalker comes out chrono boosted and you're fine.


You act like 1: Getting a full surround on a reaper does anything because they won't just push the probes out of the way

and 2: like the reaper won't just snipe these probes as he's running.

I've mathematically proven it's impossible to hold off, so please go troll elsewhere, thanks.


Lol @ mathematically proven its impossible

Oh god I love SC2 beta!!!
Money!!!
FlameSworD
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
April 07 2010 01:30 GMT
#111
stall with the zealot til u get a stalker
skyhighftw on iccup
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 07 2010 01:39 GMT
#112
On April 07 2010 10:30 FlameSworD wrote:
stall with the zealot til u get a stalker


Don't open with a zealot.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Hold-Lurker
Profile Joined October 2007
United States403 Posts
April 07 2010 02:41 GMT
#113
On April 07 2010 08:57 Floophead_III wrote:

Orb. Hate to say it, but it's fine. I just checked it myself just to see if I was mistaken, and I'm not.

Always open 10 pylon (9 chrono)/11 gate/13 gas/16 core/17 pylon and save a chrono for your stalker.

If he opens 10/10/11 reaper rush your core finishes as his reaper finishes. On LT on adjacent positions my stalker finished as his reaper entered my base. I lost I think 1 probe.

If he opens a true cheese, 8 rax 8 ref your stalker is going to be about 10 seconds late. Just threaten his reaper with probes if he goes for your pylon, and then once your stalker is out you're fine.

If he's opening with a marauder you can just make a zealot and follow up with a sentry and you're fine.

If you really don't believe me I'll show you in person. I'm on right now.


Uhhh.. this doesn't make sense to me. How would you know if he's going reaper vs. marauder and therefore be able to get stalker or zealot/sentry before seeing the unit pop up? By the time you see it, you must have already committed to one or the other?
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
April 07 2010 03:11 GMT
#114
On April 07 2010 09:40 Naib wrote:
Orb, the only thing that you've mathematically proven is that US terrans apparently are magically better than the EU ones, as EU Terrans somehow can't pull this build off properly - because it never damaged me / put me behind yet - at all. Or maybe my standard build simply counters this with some micro.

Take your pick!

Proxy rax marauder is another thing, I'll give you that (but we aren't talking about marauders here, are we?).

So what is "your build" then? If it's opening zeal first, I'm pretty sure its been said that it might work to stall for stalker, but you still will probably lose probes if terran can micro AND you're in big trouble vs aggressive marauder openings.
GANDHISAUCE
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 07 2010 03:42 GMT
#115
On April 07 2010 11:41 Hold-Lurker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2010 08:57 Floophead_III wrote:

Orb. Hate to say it, but it's fine. I just checked it myself just to see if I was mistaken, and I'm not.

Always open 10 pylon (9 chrono)/11 gate/13 gas/16 core/17 pylon and save a chrono for your stalker.

If he opens 10/10/11 reaper rush your core finishes as his reaper finishes. On LT on adjacent positions my stalker finished as his reaper entered my base. I lost I think 1 probe.

If he opens a true cheese, 8 rax 8 ref your stalker is going to be about 10 seconds late. Just threaten his reaper with probes if he goes for your pylon, and then once your stalker is out you're fine.

If he's opening with a marauder you can just make a zealot and follow up with a sentry and you're fine.

If you really don't believe me I'll show you in person. I'm on right now.


Uhhh.. this doesn't make sense to me. How would you know if he's going reaper vs. marauder and therefore be able to get stalker or zealot/sentry before seeing the unit pop up? By the time you see it, you must have already committed to one or the other?


There's this nifty unit called the probe. You send it out to see what the other player is doing. If he's doing a rax first build he won't make a marine to kill your probe off, so you can happily park it and wait for whatever comes out. If he does make a marine, you can make whatever you want cause he's already 25 seconds late.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
April 07 2010 03:43 GMT
#116
i think you have to scout on 8, gate on 12 and make a zealot first as your standard build when you see a fast reactor. chrono both the zealot and the stalker in full. and you force the reaper to try and micro the zealot (which will be lost) but you should have your stalker out by about the time the zealot is ready to die with at most 1 or 2 probe losses. losing a zealot and 2 probes (and i guess another probe due to not chrono'ing your nexus) is probably about a break even proposition considering what he had to sacrifice in scvs/mule to get a reaper this fast
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
April 07 2010 04:04 GMT
#117
On April 07 2010 12:42 Floophead_III wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2010 11:41 Hold-Lurker wrote:
On April 07 2010 08:57 Floophead_III wrote:

Orb. Hate to say it, but it's fine. I just checked it myself just to see if I was mistaken, and I'm not.

Always open 10 pylon (9 chrono)/11 gate/13 gas/16 core/17 pylon and save a chrono for your stalker.

If he opens 10/10/11 reaper rush your core finishes as his reaper finishes. On LT on adjacent positions my stalker finished as his reaper entered my base. I lost I think 1 probe.

If he opens a true cheese, 8 rax 8 ref your stalker is going to be about 10 seconds late. Just threaten his reaper with probes if he goes for your pylon, and then once your stalker is out you're fine.

If he's opening with a marauder you can just make a zealot and follow up with a sentry and you're fine.

If you really don't believe me I'll show you in person. I'm on right now.


Uhhh.. this doesn't make sense to me. How would you know if he's going reaper vs. marauder and therefore be able to get stalker or zealot/sentry before seeing the unit pop up? By the time you see it, you must have already committed to one or the other?


There's this nifty unit called the probe. You send it out to see what the other player is doing. If he's doing a rax first build he won't make a marine to kill your probe off, so you can happily park it and wait for whatever comes out. If he does make a marine, you can make whatever you want cause he's already 25 seconds late.


and if he proxied it then how will you know? There is a good chance you won't find the proxy every time. More often than not you won't find it.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 07 2010 04:53 GMT
#118
If he's proxying you'll know he's either going reaper or mara because he'll have gas and honestly it comes down to scouting and guesswork. Proxying is pretty allin cheese. I don't think Orb is talking about vs proxying players anyways.

There are always going to be cheeses that are difficult to stop 100% of the time. However, more often than not you should be fine stalker first. Remember, before stim, stalkers are even to marauders, and with probes involved, will beat marauders easily.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
theon.vbn
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5 Posts
April 07 2010 06:23 GMT
#119
this might be a side note, but i find it funny how by "micro" everyone just meant selecting the 1 zealot and 3 probes and right click on that reaper while you chrono that stalker...
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
April 07 2010 06:59 GMT
#120
lol at "I've mathematically proven it's impossible to hold off, so please go troll elsewhere, thanks." ROFL orb.

On April 07 2010 12:43 BigBalls wrote:
i think you have to scout on 8, gate on 12 and make a zealot first as your standard build when you see a fast reactor. chrono both the zealot and the stalker in full. and you force the reaper to try and micro the zealot (which will be lost) but you should have your stalker out by about the time the zealot is ready to die with at most 1 or 2 probe losses. losing a zealot and 2 probes (and i guess another probe due to not chrono'ing your nexus) is probably about a break even proposition considering what he had to sacrifice in scvs/mule to get a reaper this fast


yep
Sup
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