EPTIn SC1, I had my hatcheries on hotkeys 5-9, my different armies on 1-4, depending on how I wanted to split them. Now, in SC2, I find myself putting ALL my hatcheries on 5 thanks to the new MBS system. The problem I have with this is that when I want to go to a certain base asap, I can't just double-tap the hatch hotkey, because double-tapping 5 will take me the last hatch I added to the hotkey. So here's what I figured out: I hotkey my queens. I put the 1st one in my main on 4, 1st expo on 3, 3rd on 2. Most of my games don't go past 3 bases anyway. This way, I can jump to any base I want to, and I can inject larvae as soon as I hear it pop at every hatch I have in less than 2 seconds so it really helps my macro. Getting the inject larvae ability up is soooo important as zerg that you really have to get the timing ingrained in your skull. Anyway, just thought I'd put all this up for you guys to critique/praise/evolve.
Using Zerg control-groups
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TelesisGQ
United States83 Posts
In SC1, I had my hatcheries on hotkeys 5-9, my different armies on 1-4, depending on how I wanted to split them. Now, in SC2, I find myself putting ALL my hatcheries on 5 thanks to the new MBS system. The problem I have with this is that when I want to go to a certain base asap, I can't just double-tap the hatch hotkey, because double-tapping 5 will take me the last hatch I added to the hotkey. So here's what I figured out: I hotkey my queens. I put the 1st one in my main on 4, 1st expo on 3, 3rd on 2. Most of my games don't go past 3 bases anyway. This way, I can jump to any base I want to, and I can inject larvae as soon as I hear it pop at every hatch I have in less than 2 seconds so it really helps my macro. Getting the inject larvae ability up is soooo important as zerg that you really have to get the timing ingrained in your skull. Anyway, just thought I'd put all this up for you guys to critique/praise/evolve. | ||
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prototype.
Canada4215 Posts
might as well just hotkey your 3 hatcheries to 5 6 7 if you never go past 3 bases. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 02 2010 03:26 TelesisGQ wrote: So, first off, let me just say that I'm no pro-gamer, I'm not even platinum in the beta. Be that as it may, I've been doing lots of thinking about the control-group hotkeys I've been using in sc2 and how they've changed since sc1. In SC1, I had my hatcheries on hotkeys 5-9, my different armies on 1-4, depending on how I wanted to split them. Now, in SC2, I find myself putting ALL my hatcheries on 5 thanks to the new MBS system. The problem I have with this is that when I want to go to a certain base asap, I can't just double-tap the hatch hotkey, because double-tapping 5 will take me the last hatch I added to the hotkey. So here's what I figured out: I hotkey my queens. I put the 1st one in my main on 4, 1st expo on 3, 3rd on 2. Most of my games don't go past 3 bases anyway. This way, I can jump to any base I want to, and I can inject larvae as soon as I hear it pop at every hatch I have in less than 2 seconds so it really helps my macro. Getting the inject larvae ability up is soooo important as zerg that you really have to get the timing ingrained in your skull. Anyway, just thought I'd put all this up for you guys to critique/praise/evolve. 1-3: army 4: first queen (spawn larvae is very important in early game), later on I simply use this for my army 5: main hatch 6: expo hatch 7: 3rd hatch 8: 4th hatch 9: 5th hatch 0: all current hatches I find this gives me greatest control over worker waypoints, waypoints, queens, unit production, and massing units (and it's very similar to my BW hotkeys  ). I've never gone past 5 hatches, so this setup has worked well for me so far. | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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Blackjackbob
Canada164 Posts
For me I'm using. 1-2: Armies (I haven't found I've needed more than 2 yet, although I might be able to use a 3rd if games start getting way late game) 3: First queen at main 4: All hatcheries (I find 4 easier to hit than 0 or similar) 5: Queen at expo 6: Queen at 3rd etc | ||
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
If the F2-4 keys weren't broken it wouldn't be a problem with ur hatch issues. hopefully they retrofit SC2 with them. | ||
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
I usually build a second hatch in my main and only have a single queen. Since I'm bad at queen macro, I can use the one queen to inject two hatcheries when I have the spare attention and that works better for me. Anyways, for units beyond lair, larvae isn't that big of a deal because the units become so expensive, keeping my money down and having extra larvae is not an issue. And of course, units are 1 through 3. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 02 2010 03:46 FortuneSyn wrote: how do you guys manage your larvae injections? I cycle through hotkeys looking at the little hatchery reverse progress bar, however you cant see it when the hatchery is upgrading something, so that messes me up sometimes. I don't think there's a way to efficiently track when each spawn larvae finishes other than just looking at the hatch itself. I think after enough games zerg players will start to develop a rhythm for using spawn larvae efficiently. As for using: double-click hatch hotkey to center screen on hatch manually select queen 'R' for spawn larvae, click hatch repeat for each hatch that has a queen | ||
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Deathfate
Spain555 Posts
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reallogic
United States65 Posts
1 -- Army 2 -- First Queen 3 -- Second Queen 4 -- Third Queen 5 -- Main hatch 6 -- Second Base hatch 7 -- Third Base hatch 8 -- Fourth Base hatch 9 -- Fifth Base hatch 0 -- All Current hatches My current thoughts on zerg army control atm is similar BW. I'm trying to set up flanks in open areas by separating my army into smaller groups around the point I want to engage my opponents army at and as such I only need 1 hotkey for my army. So for more specific control drag select and cntrl selecting sub groups of units seems to be working rather well for me at this point. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
1 - overlord 2 - queen 3 - hatcheries 4 - zerglings 5 - spawning pool (to check when speed is done) Later i transtioin into 1 - 2nd queen 2 - first queen 3 - hatcheries 4 - army 5 - army I haven't experimented with more than 2 queens, yet, though | ||
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Icx
Belgium853 Posts
(this might sound obvious but some people might not do it) If it gets to lategame and you have a lot of hatche's, try to sync your queens with your first one. So instead of having to randomly go check hatche's constantly, just when it's time to inject larva, do it with all your queens, then wait, with all the queens again, etc The downside is that in the first cycle you may have to delay 1 or 2 queens, but you won't delay any larva's by forgetting about macro later on. 1-3 army 4 scout/zergling that I bring to a watchtower/front of opponent base/etc 5 Queen 6-8 hatchery's separate 9 All hatchery's Later into the game if I need it I rebind 5 to another hatchery and use the queens by going to the hatch, clicking the queen, etc Or rebind 4 to another control group if I need it. | ||
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genwar
Canada537 Posts
1 Roach/Lings 2 Hydras 3 small mix of units(when you don't have time to set to individual groups) 4 Queen 5 Main Hatch 6 Nat Hatch don't use 7 and up. 1-3 of course usually changes depending on situations of course, but i try to aim for 1 roach 2 hydra. | ||
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Blackjackbob
Canada164 Posts
On March 02 2010 08:49 FictionJV wrote: If it gets to late game and you have a lot of hatch's, try to sync your queens with your first one. This is what I have been doing and to great success. I'm starting to get the (40 second?) timing down rather well. Sometimes the moment I double click my hotkey and can view the hatchery I literally see the larva popping off the thing. but the moment it does its only a second or so and I have up to 3 hatcheries all re-injected. As for the hotkeys, it might be simple but I find having the queens hotkeys more valuable than the single hatches themselves. If my queen is hotkeyed to 3 then it's: 33, r, one click on the hatch. If my hatch is hotkeyed to 3 and not the queen then it's: 33, click the queen, r, click the hatch. I know its only one click but sometimes the queen may have been pushed around or moved so you could possibly lose valuable seconds. | ||
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SuperXlax
United States197 Posts
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TelesisGQ
United States83 Posts
On March 02 2010 09:48 SuperXlax wrote: Dunno if anyone has noticed this, but you can Hotkey all your hatcheries and queens to one group, if you hit tab until you have the queens selected, you can click Spawn Larvae(R) and just click on the the hatchery boxes in the control group on the bottom. Will this make all your queens inject larvae in all the respective hatcheries accordingly and simultaneously?? OMFG, that would be amazing but I doubt it works like that. | ||
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SuperXlax
United States197 Posts
On March 02 2010 10:00 TelesisGQ wrote: Will this make all your queens inject larvae in all the respective hatcheries accordingly and simultaneously?? OMFG, that would be amazing but I doubt it works like that. It does it however many times you Spawn Larvae on each respective Hatchery, smartcasting takes over and it chooses the closest queen to the Hatchery you clicked on to do the job. :D | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
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Artrey
Germany270 Posts
On March 02 2010 09:27 Blackjackbob wrote: As for the hotkeys, it might be simple but I find having the queens hotkeys more valuable than the single hatches themselves. If my queen is hotkeyed to 3 then it's: 33, r, one click on the hatch. If my hatch is hotkeyed to 3 and not the queen then it's: 33, click the queen, r, click the hatch. I know its only one click but sometimes the queen may have been pushed around or moved so you could possibly lose valuable seconds. I totally agree with that. 1 Zerglings 2 Roaches / Hydras 3 Air 4 Overseers 5 First Queen 6 Second Queen 7 Third Queen 8 ...Forth Queen? 0 All Hatches This works best for me. Some swapping between the first 4, depending on what i build, if I have infestors etc.. On March 02 2010 10:56 hacpee wrote: A question I have is at mid/late, why just not make extra hatches and forget about spawn larva? That way macro is really easy. Queen is 150 mins and hatch is 300 mins. 150 more mins is a low price to pay for getting rid of the macro mechanic. You can stockpile larvae with queens. So if you do not build in a hatch for a while, you will accumulate 10-20 larvae and after a battle, you can quickly rebuild all. This is a huge advantage to a normal hatch. | ||
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AndrewGreve
United States30 Posts
0 - all hatches (if i need to change a specific drone spawn or army spawn waypoint, i spawn them and give a new waypoint) FYI there is a cap on larva even with larva spawn, it's close to 19, after that all spawn larva kill larva as they pop. | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
I have like 1-3 units 3 - 1st queen early game 4 - mbs hatcheries 5-8 hatcheries 0 - nydus Hotkeying nydus is soo helpful for quick backstabs when they are not paying attentionen during fights or when they move out. | ||
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jabberwokie
Canada142 Posts
for late game army mobility I like having nydus exits next to each hatchery and the drones rally to minerals and units to the nydus. right now I am top 8 gold league division 14 edit:03/28/2010 In plat now mostly due to a change here I use 1-4 army 4 all hatch 5 all hatch that have queen and the queen 0 nydus 9 overseer somtimes 7-8 drones at bases (I usualy control group my first 10 drones and use them over the corse of the game to make all my tech starts as 3 and moves if army is too big before i use them all) If I take a sneaky expansion I want to hide I seperate rally and control group by queen and hatch at main 4 and queen and hatch at expand 5. | ||
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MiyaviTeddy
Canada697 Posts
Starting off: 1-9 is the main hatchery. Then afterwards, 2-4 any of them is scout, 5 will be the next expansion. but after a while, I often divide areas and group all the hatcheries of that area in one group and hotkey them to like 5-9 or something. 1-4 is army, 5-9 is hatcheries groups. | ||
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loft
United States344 Posts
Right now just all hatches into 1 hotkey.. maybe that will change, but hasn't had to... Better to control army with multiple hotkeys to setup flanks and position. Z is just so fast on creep (remember to macro your creep tumors too... its free after all) Overseer 1 hotkey as well, to drop your changeling scout regularly. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 02 2010 10:05 SuperXlax wrote: It does it however many times you Spawn Larvae on each respective Hatchery, smartcasting takes over and it chooses the closest queen to the Hatchery you clicked on to do the job. :D holy shit I did not even think of this, genius. If it actually works like this, it means you can easily & quickly spawn larvae at all your hatches without moving your screen away from your army/battle. | ||
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palanq
United States761 Posts
On March 02 2010 03:35 BlasiuS wrote: 1-3: army 4: first queen (spawn larvae is very important in early game), later on I simply use this for my army 5: main hatch 6: expo hatch 7: 3rd hatch 8: 4th hatch 9: 5th hatch 0: all current hatches I find this gives me greatest control over worker waypoints, waypoints, queens, unit production, and massing units (and it's very similar to my BW hotkeys ). I've never gone past 5 hatches, so this setup has worked well for me so far.this seems like the best, you can swap out 5-9 for your respective queens at those bases if you have them, too. this way you can go inject at every base quickly with double-tapping, and also macro super-easy with 0. A similar idea with toss is: 1-3: army 4: nexuses 5: gates (with own hotkey so that you can warp in quickly) 6: all other production (robos, stargates - tab through these) 7: hotkeys 4+5+6, so that you can chronoboost quickly by selecting the icons edit: holy shit yeah forget that, put all your queens and hatches in 1 hotkey to inject by selecting icons. although you have to have 1 queen at each hatch for this to work, otherwise you might get a random queen walking between your two bases, no? | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 03 2010 05:44 palanq wrote: edit: holy shit yeah forget that, put all your queens and hatches in 1 hotkey to inject by selecting icons. although you have to have 1 queen at each hatch for this to work, otherwise you might get a random queen walking between your two bases, no? Now that I think about it, I think you're right; that could easily happen if, say, you tried to spawn larvae at your 1st hatch, and your 1st queen didn't have enough energy, but your 2nd queen DID have enough energy, then she would walk from your nat to your 1st hatch  badBased on that, this seems like a good setup: 1-4: army 5: main hatch + 1st queen 6: expo hatch + 2nd queen 7: 3rd hatch + 3rd queen 8: 4th hatch + 4th queen 9: 5th hatch + 5th queen 0: all current hatches That way, spawning larvae at your hatches is a simple matter of 5,tab,r,click hatch frame,6,r,tab,click hatch frame, etc. | ||
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Tef
Sweden443 Posts
1-3: army/scouts 4: main hatch & queen 5: last expo Late game: 1-4: army/scouts/important unit or building 5: main hatch & queen 6: all hatcheries 0: nydus or something special Basically its allmost the same as when I played SC1.. #6 was usually my hatchery clump. I almost never play with 7-9. Edit: although I miss F2-F4 :[ | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
It has been discussed largely that having all queens and her hatchs on one ctrl group is super efficient. Why aren't we seeing that in streams? My hotkey settings goes like this, and it works very well: ctrl 4 (crucial): all queens and its hatchs. Does not include other hatch w/o queens, so that you know that they won't travel to another unrelated hatch. You must have same number of queens than hatch IN THIS GROUP (Im not telling to get a queen for each of your hatch) ctrl 5 (important): all hatchs. Except the individual hatchs that need a different way point. Ctrl 6-0 (not that important): Individual hatches. 6 and 7 is used to center to my main base and my main expo. 8 is latest expo, or whichever i want. 6 and 7 will be freed for other uses than focus on base when F2-4 comes back. EDIT: Plz see bottom. EDIT2: So what you click in game is this, assuming ctrl are already done: Spawn larva time: 4, hold shift, r, left click for each hatch Produce units: 5, s, v, r, r, r, r, z, z, z... (or any other combo )On March 02 2010 08:49 FictionJV wrote: If it gets to lategame and you have a lot of hatche's, try to sync your queens with your first one. So instead of having to randomly go check hatche's constantly, just when it's time to inject larva, do it with all your queens, then wait, with all the queens again, etc The downside is that in the first cycle you may have to delay 1 or 2 queens, but you won't delay any larva's by forgetting about macro later on. I agree with above poster. I wait until all my queens can inject larva. this is easier to macro, and i won't have the "not enough energy" or a mismatch on queen w/energy with another hatch whose queen has ran out of energy. Plus, you WILL know that inject larva is done, since if you go 2hatchandqueens+, its 8 more larva. Yep. You'll notice. I also disagree with the 1 queen for the first 2 hatch in early/midgame. Creep tumor and health is so powerful. Creep tumor: Use it on your main base queen first, so that you can easily connect to expo, and main base queen naturally have more energy than the fresh new expo queen. Put another creep tumor from expo, so that it creeps to enemy base or ur other expo. Transfusion: This is underrated. you should always have 2 spine crawler in front, since the min/gas ratio has change. Transfusing a spine crawler when its about to die makes enemy angry :D transfusing an ultralisk is even more evilish XD. Spine crawler in main base is also a good choice, but depend on situation. the main base queen will be able to transfusion the main base spine crawler. Or to transfusion an important building (roach/hydra den/spire/ESPECIALLY nydus network) In most of my games, I only have 2 queens, but I do not see why you shouldn't go 3+ queens if its late game. 2 queens is enough IMO until late game, because you will not have enough resources. Plus, when ur 3rd base will be up, im sure ur main base will be already mined out. I suggest always 2 queens, because of queen harass and queens are really weak. Phoenixes are really hard to push back, and with 3 phoenixes you can say bbye to queen. Good thing you had the other queen no? XD Hydra build is good against phoenixes, but if youre going roach, I strongly suggest spore crawlers against P. Put around ur queen so that itll b harder to kill. Trust me, queen's antiair is only good against observer, overlords or other weak air units. EDIT: On March 03 2010 02:42 zatic wrote: You guys really don't hotkey your nydus? I do hotkey Nydus network. When the F2-4 keys will be implanted, Im going to use 6 and 7 for my upgrade building(s) and my 2 nydus network. Advantage of 2 nydus network: I've never seen someone doing 2 NN. Sad, because if enemy nuke or kill ur last nydus network/worm, ALL ur army die. I place 2 network on diff places (main base/expo, maybe those w/queens). My queens can transfusion them if theyre about to die, and plus you can build 2 nydus worms at the same time! take that u 20 secs build time! :D You can either build 2 at the same place to vomit faster, or build 2 in 2 diff places to scare enemy off. If he move army on 1, go to the other. Mindgames are fun :D | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
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CryGirl1921
Poland78 Posts
4, - hatcheries 5,6,7,8 - queens | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
1 - Hatcheries in MAIN (so weither its 2 or 3 hatchs, only from the main on 1) 2 - Hatcheries from FIRST expo (same rule, doesnt matter how many, as long as its from expo) 3 - Hatchs from 2nd expo 4 - Queen That way, if I want to goto my first expo (natural), I just press 2. if I want to goto my main, press 1.. Works well. | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
On March 21 2010 07:12 CryGirl1921 wrote: 1,2,3 - army 4, - hatcheries 5,6,7,8 - queens why? you have to return to your base everytime, and for each queen. And then aim for the hatch. putting individual queens or hatch for spawn larva is too APM intensive, while all hatch queens in 1 ctrl group does the same thing much much faster. It's already discussed in Pro tips thread too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114943 EDIT: On March 21 2010 07:16 Skyze wrote: Know what I've been doing? Ive only played 5 games of Z, but heres how it looks. 1 - Hatcheries in MAIN (so weither its 2 or 3 hatchs, only from the main on 1) 2 - Hatcheries from FIRST expo (same rule, doesnt matter how many, as long as its from expo) 3 - Hatchs from 2nd expo 4 - Queen That way, if I want to goto my first expo (natural), I just press 2. if I want to goto my main, press 1.. Works well. having all queens and its hatch does NOT serve the purpose of refocusing on ur bases (does not work at all, though have to check which hatch is being centered if so). do it when F2-4 keys are functional again, or use other ctrls to focus on ur base. Like what i suggested up (ctrl 6 and 7). Plus, your settings are not that good since you really need at least ctrl 1-3 for ur army. theres a reason why Blizz have put everything on the left hand side. I dont think you want to click 7, a, left click instead of 1aclick | ||
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Tiazi
Netherlands761 Posts
4 for all hatcheries just to make unites fast without having to tab. 5 has all hatcheries + all queens. Shift + r + click all hatcheries for super easy macro management of the larva. For me every new expansion gets a queen. With the method explained above its really easy to control 5-6 bases with queens. Plus, having a queen in your base gives you some basic defence against a lost hydralisk or something. | ||
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FUTL
Vatican City State19 Posts
On March 21 2010 09:02 Tiazi wrote: 1-3 for my armies 4 for all hatcheries just to make unites fast without having to tab. 5 has all hatcheries + all queens. Shift + r + click all hatcheries for super easy macro management of the larva. For me every new expansion gets a queen. With the method explained above its really easy to control 5-6 bases with queens. Plus, having a queen in your base gives you some basic defence against a lost hydralisk or something. Just wanted to write same thing... I have tried few methods and this one is best imo | ||
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
I now do this because macro is about million times easier. Any zerg who isn't hotkeying both hatches and queens is doing it wrong. I was debating some guy on a stream who separates his hatches to different keys and manually selects queens. I'm sorry dude, you are wasting your time and racking up losses with an inferior setup. With hatches + queens, you can macro in battle without missing a beat and have larvae right when the battle ends. | ||
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Koffiegast
Netherlands346 Posts
On March 03 2010 02:39 [ur]Chin wrote: wait. you can have more than 7 larvae per hatchery? up to 19? damn. means you prolly didnt evolve a thing for the last 5 mins. | ||
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
1 Main hatch 2 1st Queen 3 Army 4 Scout Later in the game it looks like this 1 main hatch and 1st expo 2 both my queens 3 Army 4 3rd hatchery 5 4th hatchery and so on I really like have 1 as my hatchery as it is so much easier for me to press 1sd, rather then 3 or 4sd, also having my queen as 2 allows me to really hit 22r or 2r very fast, I also like binding my scout to 4 and my army to 3, cause after i finish injecting i just hit 33 and patrol or move with my army, also having my first two hatcheries on one key allows me to waypoint and set rally faster. Each additional hatchery can be also binded to 1 to set rallies but also left on its own, for production and sending to minerals. Just my thought though | ||
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Icx
Belgium853 Posts
Why I don't really want to use mbs: If I'm right with mbs if you select all your hatchery's and you press S you basicly get all your larva in one big list. But let's say I have just put an expo up, and I want to make drones there, So as far as I know those will be made at your 1st hatch if there are larva, while you don't want them there, or for example if you want lings in a certain base because of the runspeed, and hydra's in the other hatchery, I mean you can't control this. And with the F-keys gone it's also not possible to quickly focus on your expo's/main. Am I missing something or is 1 hotkey for each hatchery (and then one for if you just want one big production cycle or setting all your rally points in one go) still the best way (I just don't see how having your hatchery's on one key only would be usefull. Oh and WTB custom hotkeys. This 8-S-HHH-9-S-HHH for making hydra's is just so stupid to do on my keyboard :p | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On March 21 2010 07:18 firebound12 wrote: having all queens and its hatch does NOT serve the purpose of refocusing on ur bases (does not work at all, though have to check which hatch is being centered if so). do it when F2-4 keys are functional again, or use other ctrls to focus on ur base. Like what i suggested up (ctrl 6 and 7). Plus, your settings are not that good since you really need at least ctrl 1-3 for ur army. theres a reason why Blizz have put everything on the left hand side. I dont think you want to click 7, a, left click instead of 1aclick totally disagree with you there, maybe just cause im used to it but I can easily control my units from groups up to 8, sometimes 9. I dont have overly big hands, yet I do play lots of instruments.. but basically i always have 5/6/7 for sure, 8 and 9 if really need be (but dont see the need in SC2) | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
On March 21 2010 13:39 Skyze wrote: totally disagree with you there, maybe just cause im used to it but I can easily control my units from groups up to 8, sometimes 9. I dont have overly big hands, yet I do play lots of instruments.. but basically i always have 5/6/7 for sure, 8 and 9 if really need be (but dont see the need in SC2) sry i didnt accounted for personal preferences. i havent seen many ppl with buildings around ctrl 1 instead of ctrl 5. it could work with all queens and its hatch, plus another ctrl for all hatch, closer to ctrl 1 than around ctrl 5. and units will b around ctrl 5 instead. however, the biggest flaw that poster had was that he didnt ctrl queen with hatch. however, due to the fact that you still need ctrl group for individual/small clump of hatch (even with F2-4), i find it hard to take 5 to 0 for units. any tweak with which ctrl is for units and which for buildings might fix that, so i guess it is viable if u have at the strict minimum 3 ctrls for units, and 4 ctrls for hatch/queens across ctrl 1 to 0. On March 21 2010 11:09 FictionJV wrote: Atm I just put my hatchery's on different keys. Why I don't really want to use mbs: If I'm right with mbs if you select all your hatchery's and you press S you basicly get all your larva in one big list. But let's say I have just put an expo up, and I want to make drones there, So as far as I know those will be made at your 1st hatch if there are larva, while you don't want them there, or for example if you want lings in a certain base because of the runspeed, and hydra's in the other hatchery, I mean you can't control this. And with the F-keys gone it's also not possible to quickly focus on your expo's/main. Am I missing something or is 1 hotkey for each hatchery (and then one for if you just want one big production cycle or setting all your rally points in one go) still the best way (I just don't see how having your hatchery's on one key only would be usefull. Oh and WTB custom hotkeys. This 8-S-HHH-9-S-HHH for making hydra's is just so stupid to do on my keyboard :p i sense a lil bit of tl:dr, but it might be cuz i wasnt clear enough, so sry. ill explain again. assuming were taking my settings, which is some posts above. you will have ctrl 6 to 9 (0 if u dont use nydus) to select individual hatchs or clump of them who has a diff job than what ctrl 5 hatch do. sry i should have been clearer than my ctrl 5 is not ALL of my hatch, but all my hatch FOR my main army who has a good common rely point. I agree that lings can b produce at further hatch, so ill use those hatch(s) to spawn lings on ctrl 6, which is not included in ctrl 5. ctrl 7 could b my island expo, which obviously dont have the same rely point and does not want to produce the same unit as my main ctrl 5 group. the rest can b modified freely in any combo to have great control over ur hatchs. some of the ctrl can b used for the purpose of focusing on single hatch/ clump of hatch. my ctrl 4 and 5 were NEVER meant to b focus-purpose ctrl group, as i said. hopefully focus-purpose hatch will b freed once fkeys are functional again. and i realised u and i are basically saying the same thing lol. ppl in this topic, at least most, never said that ctrl 5 will b their ONLY ctrl with hatch. and it seems u forgotten about the most important part, which is one ctrl for all queens and its hatch for the only purpose of spawning larva without looking back and requiring less apm for more done. for u sir, u only need to impliment the all queen and its hatch ctrl and ull b perfect :D ex of hotkey: 1-3 army 4 all queens and its hatch, even the island expo one if needed. 5 all hatch w/o island expo hatch. 6 main hatch (or clump, but i never made more than 2 hatch in 1 base), focus-purpose 7 main expo, focus-purpose and if i want to create drones there only, i select ctrl 7, build 3 drones b4 select ctrl 5 svrrrrrrrrzzz... 8 3rd and fourth expo hatch for drone and lings, supposing they are far from main base but 3 and 4th expo are close together. 9 my island expo hatch 10 my 2 nydus network. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Although it is a good idea to make a hotkey that contains all queens aand hatcheries on the same key so that you can inject larva via unit wireframes. (queens will spawn larva to their closest hatch and I'm pretty sure you can shift queue 1 queen to hit 2 hatches) | ||
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
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ChocolateZerg
United States47 Posts
4-9 Hatcheries I just double tap the hatch I want to go to and then I always have the queen right next to the hatch and then I just click on the queen and inject larvae. | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
On March 21 2010 14:34 CharlieMurphy wrote: 1 units, 2 units, 3-5 hatches. That's really all I ever hotkey. Although it is a good idea to make a hotkey that contains all queens aand hatcheries on the same key so that you can inject larva via unit wireframes. (queens will spawn larva to their closest hatch and I'm pretty sure you can shift queue 1 queen to hit 2 hatches) just make sure to queue 1 queen for 2 hatch just at the early game, cuz u dont want ur queen to travel from main base to another unwanted hatch... and make sure u have creep in between idk for u, but queen without creep is slow and vulnerable. and can b killed in between base. and if killed ull have no queen instead of having another one if u had gone 2 hatch 2 queen but thats player preference and situation needs xDnow the real question is what is the statistical diff between a player with 1 ctrl queens and its hatch (i think im going to call that ctrlqueenhatch, or CQHing) vs someone with individual queen selection. i think the advantage is huge, but i could b dead wrong + more micro or at least more watch over battlefield cuz u dont need to go back + spawn larva is easier to spawn. it gets easier if u have more and more queens + syncing cycle of spawn larva for all queens, much easier + less click than clicking individual hatch and its queens, and does that job much faster :D - forget to check base (need more focus on minimap for possible harass) - need to take ctrls for focusing certain hatch. if have more than 5 base to focus on, almost impossible without fkeys. - because of that need to focus single hatch, may b hard to know what each ctrl have. - thus possible learning curve still, with those surmountable cons, one can truly master those macro skills and b much better than those who stick to BW settings or individual hatch. edit: On March 21 2010 14:56 ChocolateZerg wrote: 1-3 Army 4-9 Hatcheries I just double tap the hatch I want to go to and then I always have the queen right next to the hatch and then I just click on the queen and inject larvae. ok guys, if u need proof then ill calculate the exact amount of time u waste with ur individual hatch. im not a pro on starcraft stats, so if a pro can correct me plz do so assume 4 to 9 is individual hatch for P1 assume 4 is queens with its hatch for P2 P1 44 target queen r click hatch multiplied by 6 5x6= 30 action P2 4 r hold shift click 6 times on hatch wireframe 9 actions P2 9 actions > P1 30 actions in term of efficiency and speed and dont forget that P1 have used at least 2 secs (1 for koreans.. i mean pros) per hatch WHILE looking away from battlefield to do so. P2 have probably took 3 secs (1.5 for pros) doing those 5 hatch while still having his eyes on the battlefield. other variations: individual queens instead of hatch: 1 click less per ctrl, but wow theres so many other disadv that i dont want to discuss here... if Players need to macro 2 queens only: P1: 5 x 2 = 10 click P2: 4 r hold shift 2 clicks = 5 i agree that the gap has lessen, but its still a diff  1 queen: P1 5 actions (actually 4 actions if u hotkey ur only queen) P2 4 actions the gap is now very very close. however, there are several disadvantages to P1. first, its only efficient if he intent to stay on 1 queen for the entire match two, he probably want to fertilize expo hatch too ( ive seen a lot of 1 queen build), so he needs to do more than 1 extra step, thus making P2 more efficient. so conclusion: if ur planning on getting more than 1 queen in the game, then CQHing is better. if u go 1 queen all the time, then CQH is still better because u dont need to look back at ur base. | ||
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fishyjoes
Germany644 Posts
I currently use 0 for all my hatches in lategame to set up ralley points and macro units. The idea with the queens and hatches all in one group doesnt seam too bad. But if you try to use right-click for ralley then. Dont all queens get a movement command? And are the queens or the hatches in the first "tab" if you hit 0? Do you have to go 0 tab s zzzzzzz for macro then? | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
On March 21 2010 15:17 fishyjoes wrote: I think the main reason most people (like me) hotkey each hatch individually is because their habits from BW and with the F-Keys are gone theres now other good way to get back to your expos quickly. Hotkeying your queens seams unreliable because they move, can get sniped and sometimes provide larva for 2 hatches if energy is built up. I currently use 0 for all my hatches in lategame to set up ralley points and macro units. The idea with the queens and hatches all in one group doesnt seam too bad. But if you try to use right-click for ralley then. Dont all queens get a movement command? And are the queens or the hatches in the first "tab" if you hit 0? Do you have to go 0 tab s zzzzzzz for macro then? i think i wont b able to sleep b4 convincing ppl... Please ppl, PLEASE, STOP tl;dr this topic, or at least my subject, or else DO NOT post already answered questions about my CQH (CtrlQueenHatch, putting queens with hatch in same ctrl group) fishy, ive answered all ur questions already in all my above posts. please read them. sry if u didnt catch my last edit of my previous post b4 u posted theres still the issue for 2 situation that i will take care of tomorrow, because i need to sleep. situation 1: what happen if queen dies? situation 2: what happen if u wanna 1 queen 2 hatch? now good night. | ||
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fantomex
United States313 Posts
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fishyjoes
Germany644 Posts
Sorry about that. Reading your above post now. Edit: Readed. Wait what? You are hotkeying 4 to 0 with 6 different hatchery combinations. Thats seams way to complicated to me. | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
On March 21 2010 16:39 fishyjoes wrote: I wrote the post CharlieMurphys was the last reply. But TL somehow didnt let me post it and it took some time to work. Sorry about that. Reading your above post now. Edit: Readed. Wait what? You are hotkeying 4 to 0 with 6 different hatchery combinations. Thats seams way to complicated to me. :/ they are not random hatchery combo ctrls. Its just that hotkeys can be adjusted to situations. Also, some of them are used to focus different bases, because Fkeys arent working right now. If you like ctrl 0 to be your all hatch key, then you can use that instead of my ctrl 5. You're settings could look like this, and could be in any other ctrl order: 1-3 - units 4 - Ctrl for Queen and its Hatch. You need one and only one of them. this ctrl's purpose is ONLY to spawn larva. not to rally, not to move, not to focus, not nothing else. That way you dont accidentally send all your queens. And your queen is always selected first, so you don't need to tab. What if you need to create units? your ctrl 0 for mass, or individual hatch/clump of hatchs in ctrl 5-9 as below: 5 - your main base hatch(s). That is so that you can focus on your main base. Thats the method to go back and see your main base, because we all know that focusing on ctrl 4 doesnt work. You just press 55. 6-9 - Your main expo hatch(s), or your other expos, or your island expo, or anything else depending on the situation. Those are all optional but recommended. You dont need one of each. You can adjust to the situation. I assume that you need a way to focus on your main expo, so you might need at least one ctrl for it. It also let you have more control over your hatch. Lets say I want to create drones in my 3rd expo only. I'll have a ctrl group for that hatch only (assume ctrl 7, lets say), so ill do this: 7, s, ddd, and if I want to create more units, 0, s, rrrrrr (lol mass roaches), so that I dont accidently create drones in main base hatch. 0 - all hatch (or almost): You use this mass hatch ctrl to rally point instead of the ctrl 4 group. Notice that now you have a ctrl for queens and its hatch, PLUS a ctrl for all hatch. Yes, they overlap, and thats the whole idea. Again, you can use different ctrl for each, but you must absolutely have at least 2: all queens and its hatchs ctrl, + all hatch ctrl. the rest is up to you, but you'll need some ctrls to focus on some bases no? Ok, so back to what I said I'll try to solve: situation 1: what happen if queen dies? situation 2: what happen if u wanna 1 queen 2 hatch? Situation 1: hum.. this is a hard one. In order for queens not to spawn larva on wrong hatch when one of your queen just died, then you might want to... unselect hatch? and ctrl that hatch if you spawn another queen? XD Situation 2: if you have 1 queen and 2 hatch... then thats one of the time you individually select your queen (I dont see how ctrl ur hatch individually only is faster than ctrl queen, ctrl main hatch, ctrl expo hatch). If you get more hatch in other expos without having another queen... then good luck against someone who does at least 2 queens :D If you decide to 2 queens+, then you change ur ctrl to 1 for "queens and its hatch"-ing (CQHing), etc. If you decide to do 1 queen and the rest all hatch clumps... then good luck too :D | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
Now, why I post it here instead of the other existing thread is that I want to discuss about something more productive, and not wine about it and say "omg put it back". I am not happy with such changes, but I have accepted them and thus far have worked on my own macro spawn larva system. Here it is: Keeping in mind that minimap casting may as well be removed in the future (I'm just guessing) , I wanted to use my ctrl keys to function both as a town hall focus hotkey and a spawn larva inject hotkey. So I decided to go like this: 1-4: units 5: all hatch 6-9: individual queens 0: nydus worm So what have you guys changed ur macro? | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
4 all hatch 5-0 single hatch for injecting larva i think removing wireframe casting was a good idea, macro is now real macro again. i think it's good if you have to go back to your base to macro, although i think zerg has by far the hardest macro mechanic to use now. | ||
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firebound12
Canada274 Posts
Scrap my above settings, here's the new and improve (not to mention super fast, credit to the one who discovered it): 1 control group for all queens. Yep. And you need the right shift button and backspace. Here's how you go through one cycle of spawn larva: ctrl 6 (all queens), v, hold right shift, press backspace, left click (cuz hatchery will be already centered, backspace, left click, repeat until all hatch is injected. Tested it and took 4 seconds to inject 4 hatch. Im only bronze so pros can do it in 2 seconds, which is even faster than the wireframe casting | ||
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