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Atm I just put my hatchery's on different keys.
Why I don't really want to use mbs:
If I'm right with mbs if you select all your hatchery's and you press S you basicly get all your larva in one big list.
But let's say I have just put an expo up, and I want to make drones there, So as far as I know those will be made at your 1st hatch if there are larva, while you don't want them there, or for example if you want lings in a certain base because of the runspeed, and hydra's in the other hatchery, I mean you can't control this.
And with the F-keys gone it's also not possible to quickly focus on your expo's/main.
Am I missing something or is 1 hotkey for each hatchery (and then one for if you just want one big production cycle or setting all your rally points in one go) still the best way (I just don't see how having your hatchery's on one key only would be usefull.
Oh and WTB custom hotkeys.
This 8-S-HHH-9-S-HHH for making hydra's is just so stupid to do on my keyboard :p
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On March 21 2010 07:18 firebound12 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 07:16 Skyze wrote:
Know what I've been doing? Ive only played 5 games of Z, but heres how it looks.
1 - Hatcheries in MAIN (so weither its 2 or 3 hatchs, only from the main on 1)
2 - Hatcheries from FIRST expo (same rule, doesnt matter how many, as long as its from expo)
3 - Hatchs from 2nd expo
4 - Queen
That way, if I want to goto my first expo (natural), I just press 2. if I want to goto my main, press 1.. Works well. having all queens and its hatch does NOT serve the purpose of refocusing on ur bases (does not work at all, though have to check which hatch is being centered if so). do it when F2-4 keys are functional again, or use other ctrls to focus on ur base. Like what i suggested up (ctrl 6 and 7). Plus, your settings are not that good since you really need at least ctrl 1-3 for ur army. theres a reason why Blizz have put everything on the left hand side. I dont think you want to click 7, a, left click instead of 1aclick
totally disagree with you there, maybe just cause im used to it but I can easily control my units from groups up to 8, sometimes 9. I dont have overly big hands, yet I do play lots of instruments.. but basically i always have 5/6/7 for sure, 8 and 9 if really need be (but dont see the need in SC2)
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On March 21 2010 13:39 Skyze wrote:
totally disagree with you there, maybe just cause im used to it but I can easily control my units from groups up to 8, sometimes 9. I dont have overly big hands, yet I do play lots of instruments.. but basically i always have 5/6/7 for sure, 8 and 9 if really need be (but dont see the need in SC2)
sry i didnt accounted for personal preferences. i havent seen many ppl with buildings around ctrl 1 instead of ctrl 5. it could work with all queens and its hatch, plus another ctrl for all hatch, closer to ctrl 1 than around ctrl 5. and units will b around ctrl 5 instead. however, the biggest flaw that poster had was that he didnt ctrl queen with hatch. however, due to the fact that you still need ctrl group for individual/small clump of hatch (even with F2-4), i find it hard to take 5 to 0 for units. any tweak with which ctrl is for units and which for buildings might fix that, so i guess it is viable if u have at the strict minimum 3 ctrls for units, and 4 ctrls for hatch/queens across ctrl 1 to 0.
On March 21 2010 11:09 FictionJV wrote:
Atm I just put my hatchery's on different keys.
Why I don't really want to use mbs:
If I'm right with mbs if you select all your hatchery's and you press S you basicly get all your larva in one big list.
But let's say I have just put an expo up, and I want to make drones there, So as far as I know those will be made at your 1st hatch if there are larva, while you don't want them there, or for example if you want lings in a certain base because of the runspeed, and hydra's in the other hatchery, I mean you can't control this.
And with the F-keys gone it's also not possible to quickly focus on your expo's/main.
Am I missing something or is 1 hotkey for each hatchery (and then one for if you just want one big production cycle or setting all your rally points in one go) still the best way (I just don't see how having your hatchery's on one key only would be usefull.
Oh and WTB custom hotkeys.
This 8-S-HHH-9-S-HHH for making hydra's is just so stupid to do on my keyboard :p
i sense a lil bit of tl:dr, but it might be cuz i wasnt clear enough, so sry.
ill explain again.
assuming were taking my settings, which is some posts above. you will have ctrl 6 to 9 (0 if u dont use nydus) to select individual hatchs or clump of them who has a diff job than what ctrl 5 hatch do. sry i should have been clearer than my ctrl 5 is not ALL of my hatch, but all my hatch FOR my main army who has a good common rely point. I agree that lings can b produce at further hatch, so ill use those hatch(s) to spawn lings on ctrl 6, which is not included in ctrl 5. ctrl 7 could b my island expo, which obviously dont have the same rely point and does not want to produce the same unit as my main ctrl 5 group. the rest can b modified freely in any combo to have great control over ur hatchs. some of the ctrl can b used for the purpose of focusing on single hatch/ clump of hatch. my ctrl 4 and 5 were NEVER meant to b focus-purpose ctrl group, as i said. hopefully focus-purpose hatch will b freed once fkeys are functional again.
and i realised u and i are basically saying the same thing lol. ppl in this topic, at least most, never said that ctrl 5 will b their ONLY ctrl with hatch. and it seems u forgotten about the most important part, which is one ctrl for all queens and its hatch for the only purpose of spawning larva without looking back and requiring less apm for more done.
for u sir, u only need to impliment the all queen and its hatch ctrl and ull b perfect :D
ex of hotkey:
1-3 army
4 all queens and its hatch, even the island expo one if needed.
5 all hatch w/o island expo hatch.
6 main hatch (or clump, but i never made more than 2 hatch in 1 base), focus-purpose
7 main expo, focus-purpose and if i want to create drones there only, i select ctrl 7, build 3 drones b4 select ctrl 5 svrrrrrrrrzzz...
8 3rd and fourth expo hatch for drone and lings, supposing they are far from main base but 3 and 4th expo are close together.
9 my island expo hatch
10 my 2 nydus network.
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1 units, 2 units, 3-5 hatches. That's really all I ever hotkey.
Although it is a good idea to make a hotkey that contains all queens aand hatcheries on the same key so that you can inject larva via unit wireframes. (queens will spawn larva to their closest hatch and I'm pretty sure you can shift queue 1 queen to hit 2 hatches)
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i just hotkey all my hatches seperatly unless for some reason i have more than one in a base which usually doesnt happen. I'm sure there is a cleaner way to do it with sc2's UI but i'm too lazy to figure it out.
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1-3 Army
4-9 Hatcheries
I just double tap the hatch I want to go to and then I always have the queen right next to the hatch and then I just click on the queen and inject larvae.
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On March 21 2010 14:34 CharlieMurphy wrote:
1 units, 2 units, 3-5 hatches. That's really all I ever hotkey.
Although it is a good idea to make a hotkey that contains all queens aand hatcheries on the same key so that you can inject larva via unit wireframes. (queens will spawn larva to their closest hatch and I'm pretty sure you can shift queue 1 queen to hit 2 hatches)
just make sure to queue 1 queen for 2 hatch just at the early game, cuz u dont want ur queen to travel from main base to another unwanted hatch... and make sure u have creep in between  idk for u, but queen without creep is slow and vulnerable. and can b killed in between base. and if killed ull have no queen instead of having another one if u had gone 2 hatch 2 queen but thats player preference and situation needs xD
now the real question is what is the statistical diff between a player with 1 ctrl queens and its hatch (i think im going to call that ctrlqueenhatch, or CQHing) vs someone with individual queen selection.
i think the advantage is huge, but i could b dead wrong
+ more micro or at least more watch over battlefield cuz u dont need to go back
+ spawn larva is easier to spawn. it gets easier if u have more and more queens
+ syncing cycle of spawn larva for all queens, much easier
+ less click than clicking individual hatch and its queens, and does that job much faster :D
- forget to check base (need more focus on minimap for possible harass)
- need to take ctrls for focusing certain hatch. if have more than 5 base to focus on, almost impossible without fkeys.
- because of that need to focus single hatch, may b hard to know what each ctrl have.
- thus possible learning curve
still, with those surmountable cons, one can truly master those macro skills and b much better than those who stick to BW settings or individual hatch.
edit:
On March 21 2010 14:56 ChocolateZerg wrote:
1-3 Army
4-9 Hatcheries
I just double tap the hatch I want to go to and then I always have the queen right next to the hatch and then I just click on the queen and inject larvae.
ok guys, if u need proof then ill calculate the exact amount of time u waste with ur individual hatch. im not a pro on starcraft stats, so if a pro can correct me plz do so
assume 4 to 9 is individual hatch for P1
assume 4 is queens with its hatch for P2
P1 44 target queen r click hatch multiplied by 6
5x6= 30 action
P2 4 r hold shift click 6 times on hatch wireframe
9 actions
P2 9 actions > P1 30 actions in term of efficiency and speed
and dont forget that P1 have used at least 2 secs (1 for koreans.. i mean pros) per hatch WHILE looking away from battlefield to do so. P2 have probably took 3 secs (1.5 for pros) doing those 5 hatch while still having his eyes on the battlefield.
other variations: individual queens instead of hatch: 1 click less per ctrl, but wow theres so many other disadv that i dont want to discuss here...
if Players need to macro 2 queens only:
P1: 5 x 2 = 10 click
P2: 4 r hold shift 2 clicks = 5
i agree that the gap has lessen, but its still a diff 
1 queen:
P1 5 actions (actually 4 actions if u hotkey ur only queen)
P2 4 actions
the gap is now very very close.
however, there are several disadvantages to P1.
first, its only efficient if he intent to stay on 1 queen for the entire match
two, he probably want to fertilize expo hatch too ( ive seen a lot of 1 queen build), so he needs to do more than 1 extra step, thus making P2 more efficient.
so conclusion: if ur planning on getting more than 1 queen in the game, then CQHing is better. if u go 1 queen all the time, then CQH is still better because u dont need to look back at ur base.
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I think the main reason most people (like me) hotkey each hatch individually is because their habits from BW and with the F-Keys are gone theres now other good way to get back to your expos quickly. Hotkeying your queens seams unreliable because they move, can get sniped and sometimes provide larva for 2 hatches if energy is built up.
I currently use 0 for all my hatches in lategame to set up ralley points and macro units. The idea with the queens and hatches all in one group doesnt seam too bad. But if you try to use right-click for ralley then. Dont all queens get a movement command? And are the queens or the hatches in the first "tab" if you hit 0? Do you have to go 0 tab s zzzzzzz for macro then?
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On March 21 2010 15:17 fishyjoes wrote:
I think the main reason most people (like me) hotkey each hatch individually is because their habits from BW and with the F-Keys are gone theres now other good way to get back to your expos quickly. Hotkeying your queens seams unreliable because they move, can get sniped and sometimes provide larva for 2 hatches if energy is built up.
I currently use 0 for all my hatches in lategame to set up ralley points and macro units. The idea with the queens and hatches all in one group doesnt seam too bad. But if you try to use right-click for ralley then. Dont all queens get a movement command? And are the queens or the hatches in the first "tab" if you hit 0? Do you have to go 0 tab s zzzzzzz for macro then?
i think i wont b able to sleep b4 convincing ppl...
Please ppl, PLEASE, STOP tl;dr this topic, or at least my subject, or else DO NOT post already answered questions about my CQH (CtrlQueenHatch, putting queens with hatch in same ctrl group)
fishy, ive answered all ur questions already in all my above posts. please read them. sry if u didnt catch my last edit of my previous post b4 u posted
theres still the issue for 2 situation that i will take care of tomorrow, because i need to sleep.
situation 1: what happen if queen dies?
situation 2: what happen if u wanna 1 queen 2 hatch?
now good night.
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I envy you non-random players and your consistent hotkey groups.
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I wrote the post CharlieMurphys was the last reply. But TL somehow didnt let me post it and it took some time to work.
Sorry about that. Reading your above post now.
Edit: Readed. Wait what? You are hotkeying 4 to 0 with 6 different hatchery combinations. Thats seams way to complicated to me.
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On March 21 2010 16:39 fishyjoes wrote:
I wrote the post CharlieMurphys was the last reply. But TL somehow didnt let me post it and it took some time to work.
Sorry about that. Reading your above post now.
Edit: Readed. Wait what? You are hotkeying 4 to 0 with 6 different hatchery combinations. Thats seams way to complicated to me.
:/ they are not random hatchery combo ctrls. Its just that hotkeys can be adjusted to situations. Also, some of them are used to focus different bases, because Fkeys arent working right now.
If you like ctrl 0 to be your all hatch key, then you can use that instead of my ctrl 5. You're settings could look like this, and could be in any other ctrl order:
1-3 - units
4 - Ctrl for Queen and its Hatch. You need one and only one of them. this ctrl's purpose is ONLY to spawn larva. not to rally, not to move, not to focus, not nothing else. That way you dont accidentally send all your queens. And your queen is always selected first, so you don't need to tab. What if you need to create units? your ctrl 0 for mass, or individual hatch/clump of hatchs in ctrl 5-9 as below:
5 - your main base hatch(s). That is so that you can focus on your main base. Thats the method to go back and see your main base, because we all know that focusing on ctrl 4 doesnt work. You just press 55.
6-9 - Your main expo hatch(s), or your other expos, or your island expo, or anything else depending on the situation. Those are all optional but recommended. You dont need one of each. You can adjust to the situation. I assume that you need a way to focus on your main expo, so you might need at least one ctrl for it. It also let you have more control over your hatch. Lets say I want to create drones in my 3rd expo only. I'll have a ctrl group for that hatch only (assume ctrl 7, lets say), so ill do this: 7, s, ddd, and if I want to create more units, 0, s, rrrrrr (lol mass roaches), so that I dont accidently create drones in main base hatch.
0 - all hatch (or almost): You use this mass hatch ctrl to rally point instead of the ctrl 4 group. Notice that now you have a ctrl for queens and its hatch, PLUS a ctrl for all hatch. Yes, they overlap, and thats the whole idea.
Again, you can use different ctrl for each, but you must absolutely have at least 2: all queens and its hatchs ctrl, + all hatch ctrl. the rest is up to you, but you'll need some ctrls to focus on some bases no?
Ok, so back to what I said I'll try to solve:
situation 1: what happen if queen dies?
situation 2: what happen if u wanna 1 queen 2 hatch?
Situation 1: hum.. this is a hard one. In order for queens not to spawn larva on wrong hatch when one of your queen just died, then you might want to... unselect hatch? and ctrl that hatch if you spawn another queen? XD
Situation 2: if you have 1 queen and 2 hatch... then thats one of the time you individually select your queen (I dont see how ctrl ur hatch individually only is faster than ctrl queen, ctrl main hatch, ctrl expo hatch). If you get more hatch in other expos without having another queen... then good luck against someone who does at least 2 queens :D If you decide to 2 queens+, then you change ur ctrl to 1 for "queens and its hatch"-ing (CQHing), etc. If you decide to do 1 queen and the rest all hatch clumps... then good luck too :D
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lol blizz just messed everyone's macro because they removed wireframe casting.
Now, why I post it here instead of the other existing thread is that I want to discuss about something more productive, and not wine about it and say "omg put it back".
I am not happy with such changes, but I have accepted them and thus far have worked on my own macro spawn larva system.
Here it is:
Keeping in mind that minimap casting may as well be removed in the future (I'm just guessing) , I wanted to use my ctrl keys to function both as a town hall focus hotkey and a spawn larva inject hotkey. So I decided to go like this:
1-4: units
5: all hatch
6-9: individual queens
0: nydus worm
So what have you guys changed ur macro?
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1-3 units
4 all hatch
5-0 single hatch for injecting larva
i think removing wireframe casting was a good idea, macro is now real macro again. i think it's good if you have to go back to your base to macro, although i think zerg has by far the hardest macro mechanic to use now.
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I read on another thread that backspace may as well be the new trend.
Scrap my above settings, here's the new and improve (not to mention super fast, credit to the one who discovered it):
1 control group for all queens.
Yep. And you need the right shift button and backspace. Here's how you go through one cycle of spawn larva:
ctrl 6 (all queens), v, hold right shift, press backspace, left click (cuz hatchery will be already centered, backspace, left click, repeat until all hatch is injected.
Tested it and took 4 seconds to inject 4 hatch. Im only bronze so pros can do it in 2 seconds, which is even faster than the wireframe casting
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EPT
