EPTWhat can Zerg do against early void ray? - Page 5
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semantics
10040 Posts
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chocoed
United States398 Posts
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Jigsss
1 Post
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zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On February 23 2010 11:24 zergpower123 wrote: uh why not spore colony? Its movable too...... Spore is no help because of the void rays range. You need like 3 to cover 1 hatchery. You can use them to stall for hydras though with constant uprooting and as cover for the queen. I have been | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
On February 24 2010 22:35 zatic wrote: Spore is no help because of the void rays range. You need like 3 to cover 1 hatchery. You can use them to stall for hydras though with constant uprooting and as cover for the queen. I have been Wow I did not even think of P poxying this against me *shudders* I have finally got comfortable keeping a good scout on their base during this window...now I have to worry about proxy lol! | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19138 Posts
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
This particular flavor of void ray pops one at 6:00. Arrives at my base 6:15-ish if close pos/desertoasis, little longer if far. In either case, my build gives me the first hydra popping at 6:54. I'm wondering about getting two queens so I can defend that 1st void ray + expo nicely, giving me the 2nd queen at 6:20. 13p 14g 15ov 15roach (skipped if I scout fast enough) **queen after pool @100gas lair 20/21 expo **2nd queen after lair Any tried and true builds that work nicer? My current formulation is a shot in the dark...I'm not sure how this will hold up for a 2nd void ray. p.s. I find it ironic how if something had a longass ground distance compared to air distance it was a massive z favored map in sc1. The tables have turned. | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
This has become very easy to deal with now. Experience with scouting and just getting a better feel for the game makes it much easier to deal with. Usually seeing a quick core means you are safe to tech to hydras...which is decent against most early - mid game Protoss armys (when combined with other units. The hydra's of course are a great counter to these air units...but you have to know when and where to scout properly. | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
However, it seems that 2 queens can easily hold off two, maybe more, void rays, so in those games it hasn't worked so well. I haven't really been doing it that much since a failed a few in a row. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
Use your overlord to scout. No matter what to map, you should be able to get to their base before the void ray is built. Once you see the Stargate building a void ray, build a second queen. Two queens completely shut down void ray attacks. You need the second queen anyways, and Protoss just wasted minerals on the Stargate and the void rays. Another counter is heavy zerglings at the start. Protoss won't have many zealots since fast teching void rays takes so much resources. You'll be able to plow through a fully sealed wall even. The last thing you can do is just to fast tech to hydras. You'll get hydras out faster than the void ray will show up. The problem is that if you were going roaches and then you scout their void ray, there's no time to switch to hydras, so for a response to void rays, go queen, if you were going hydras in the first place, just don't worry about protoss air at all. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On February 22 2010 15:17 Khaymus wrote: I don't think you understand how fast a P can get void ray. By time you get few lings and 4-6 roaches he has a void ray. How do you stop that harass with units that cannot attack air? Sounds like you're doing a typical roach rush. Don't go roach rush it's that simple | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On March 11 2010 14:50 Chairman Ray wrote: I'm a P player that spent a lot of time perfecting the void ray timings against computers, only to discover my own hard counter. Use your overlord to scout. No matter what to map, you should be able to get to their base before the void ray is built. Once you see the Stargate building a void ray, build a second queen. Two queens completely shut down void ray attacks. You need the second queen anyways, and Protoss just wasted minerals on the Stargate and the void rays. Another counter is heavy zerglings at the start. Protoss won't have many zealots since fast teching void rays takes so much resources. You'll be able to plow through a fully sealed wall even. The last thing you can do is just to fast tech to hydras. You'll get hydras out faster than the void ray will show up. The problem is that if you were going roaches and then you scout their void ray, there's no time to switch to hydras, so for a response to void rays, go queen, if you were going hydras in the first place, just don't worry about protoss air at all. If you tech strait to hydras, there's still no reason for it to come out before the voidray. On a 14 gas, they come out at almost 7 minutes, void ray is 6, that's also the slower variety of the void ray build. Also, a tightly sealed wall with no zealots would be breakable by ling if there were no cannons warping behind it. Also the scout probe would notice if there was a ling opening at which point they'd throw some zealot meat in front of the building wall. I forgot to add on my earlier post that there is a drone scout out at 11 (extractor trick) so I can get a pretty good idea when there is voidrays coming. Just not sure what exactly is the optimal build still. Can someone with real data and a solid build please drop in 2 cents? Yes, for the last time we know hydras kill voidrays, that's not the question here. hydras do not come out before 6 minutes. | ||
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DaVinci
Netherlands27 Posts
hydras do not come out before 6 minutes. I think even the CPU on very easy has its first Hydra out before the 5 min mark. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
But this only is if i'm not going my 14 gas speed build becuase else i pretty much reach mutalisk the same time if they were teaching to void rays. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On March 11 2010 16:53 DaVinci wrote: I think even the CPU on very easy has its first Hydra out before the 5 min mark. If this was the case, there would be no open discussions about this issue now, would there? The computer also likes to make two zealots that stare blankly at you, on it's ONLY (blizzard released) AI setting: very easy. Please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. Hydras are lair tech. On a 14 gas, the lair immediately started with first 100 gas isn't even done until 5:32. 5:32. That's just the lair finishing. On March 11 2010 17:06 Virtue wrote: I normally play queen heavy i usually produce 2 queens per hatchery to lay eggs i like to spread alot of creep, so the play style i've adapted works well against easily void rays and 4 queens can handle 2 3 void rays pretty well. But this only is if i'm not going my 14 gas speed build becuase else i pretty much reach mutalisk the same time if they were teaching to void rays. How exactly does this work? You can only inject once, after all, and the queen always has enough energy for the next inject. If you delay the inject a couple of seconds you have enough for a tumor, of which can just keep spawning new ones without the queen. Also, I'm not sure you're facing the same thing being discussed right now, it's not possible for muta to come first in the scenario OP is discussing. Does that extra early queen set you back? On March 11 2010 15:01 -orb- wrote: Sounds like you're doing a typical roach rush. Don't go roach rush it's that simple he's right of course, if you get em you better be using em. Then again that isn't the greatest idea most of the time when the 2nd void ray kills ur rush. I actually completely skip the roach warren when I see the stargate or if I suspect proxy stargate. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On March 11 2010 15:01 -orb- wrote: Sounds like you're doing a typical roach rush. Don't go roach rush it's that simple you should have your name changed to "orbitter" hahaha what's he supposed to use against zealots? ling? pft. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On March 11 2010 17:29 danl9rm wrote: you should have your name changed to "orbitter" hahaha what's he supposed to use against zealots? ling? pft. drone or ovie will tell if there are 2+ gates to worry bout, vs tech you really don't need roach. The queen and a few ling can handle just fine. | ||
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DaVinci
Netherlands27 Posts
If this was the case, there would be no open discussions about this issue now, would there? The computer also likes to make two zealots that stare blankly at you, on it's ONLY (blizzard released) AI setting: very easy. Please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. Hydras are lair tech. On a 14 gas, the lair immediately started with first 100 gas isn't even done until 5:32. 5:32. That's just the lair finishing. Uhm, just watch a replay of a Zerg CPU and you'll see. Obviously I'm not talking about a 14 gas build (...) It's just BS to say you can't have hydras when the first void ray comes. Any decent Zerg in beta at the moment just expands 3-4 times when they scout you going for void rays, good luck killing all those hatcheries. | ||
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Waffles
Romania605 Posts
On February 22 2010 15:19 mOnion wrote: [ how do you get to carnegie hall? PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! to OP void rays suck vs masses of units. when you see him going for early starport( sac an ovie) get hydra den and get like 5 hydras= dead void ray. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10873 Posts
On March 11 2010 17:29 danl9rm wrote: you should have your name changed to "orbitter" hahaha what's he supposed to use against zealots? ling? pft. Yes, Lings... Why not? If he doesn't go 3 Gate Speedlings are more than capable of dealing with any Zealots he might sends and if you worry about his Zeal count (in other words build to many drones and not enough lings) 2 Spinecrawlers will switch the advantage back to you (as long as there are only zealots, if there are not only zealots he should not have a strong enough army against lings to theaten you anyway... And if he goes fast Voidray there is NO way that he can outmatch your lings with zealots. | ||
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