EPTWhat can Zerg do against early void ray? - Page 3
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:33 Amber[LighT] wrote: static defense is good. You can even use the evolution chamber to do something called "upgrading." It's a clever skill... -1 eSports point for missing an obvious "useful talent toi have" joke. | ||
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jabberwokie
Canada142 Posts
I think some of this is being over thought. Should you have a queen at 4 min? YES. Why? because the queen is an ESSENTIAL unit not because it specificaly counters void ray but you can harass a void ray with your queen so if you are having trouble with a voidray this is a no brainer, it's like saying the sky is blue. You have to counter what your oponant throws. You can do this by scouting early and building apropriatly or by establishing a prefered play style and leveraging that for time to hard counter your oponants units. Something like a zergling roach timeing attack to pressure and buy time / scout (previously suggested in this thread). It seems to be common opinion that players will have to rely more on army composition (correct counters) then micro with the vast majority of units, the obvious exceptions being the casters. It's not like sc1 where if you just micro the vulture vs the zealot they still work. In sc2 the advantage a hard counter seems to give an army is something that can't be successfully ignored. Void rays are a hard counter to: overlords, overseers, roachs, broodlords, ultralisks and corruptors specificaly within the zerg army. Units that can attack air include muta, corruptor, hydralisk, spore crawler, queen and corruptors through spells. The mobility of lair tech with the nydus network is insane, they are expensive so you should wait for an advantage or know that it's a risk but will probably turn into one of the linchpins of zerg play. (to have the network + 1 exit costs m250g300) Finally, have you taken the view that your performance was pefect? If you are not a good player it could be a skill thing. I can't watch your replay without the beta stream or youtube would be cool. I am also not trying to say you suck, but suggest that usually you can make adjustments within a strat as well unless you have pro skill / apm and you are already familiar with all sc2 hotkeys etc. This post was edited based on great feedback from Zatic, thanks. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
eh Jaberwokie your post is kind of useless, sorry =/ And even with long ground distances it's not an island map. The paths aren't blocked off. | ||
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Biochemist
United States1008 Posts
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:40 Biochemist wrote: Why are you guys still even trying to help this guy? He's clearly made up his mind that this build is impossible to beat. I think it is impossible to beat so I post on a forum asking for help how to beat it? Rofl? | ||
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Biochemist
United States1008 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:42 Khaymus wrote: I think it is impossible to beat so I post on a forum asking for help how to beat it? Rofl? Yeah, that's the beauty of it. Read your first 10 replies. Ostensibly you're asking for help, but any time anyone offers advice you describe how anything you do can be countered. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
edit: Biochemist the solutions people were giving had no actual relevance on the situation in his game -_- edit2: This situation is like if he was asking for help cracking open a walnut and everyone was telling him what to do with the walnut after he cracks it. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15317 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:37 jabberwokie wrote: Disclaimer: I don't have a beta key myself yet, Though I very actively watch and read. Desert oasis is essentialy (for early game purposes) an island map. The bases are seperated by distructable terrain with no clear path. This necessitates a tech build full stop imo. Scouting will be essential so saccing an overlord if you have to / sneaky if you can, don't throw it away is what I am saying. I appreciate the disclaimer, and even though you don't play most of what you are writing is correct, but: Desert Oasis is not an island and there is no destructible terrain blocking the mains. There are two clear (although relatively long) paths from main to main. What you have been watching probably are the newb settings (I don't exactly know when they are in effect) where EVERY map has destructible terrain blocking rushes. This is a perfect example of why you shouldn't give advice when you don't play the beta. | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:45 Biochemist wrote: Yeah, that's the beauty of it. Read your first 10 replies. Ostensibly you're asking for help, but any time anyone offers advice you describe how anything you do can be countered. It is called discussion. You know where one person says one thing and then the other person inputs as well? Refer to my OP and see the disclaimer I have placed there about quoting people. I have had a few replys that have actually helped me with this situation... Not to mention, most of the replys that I shrug off are the ones that are dripping with sarcasm and consist of "build a queen newb". Those do not really help. Any reply with some actual thought put into it is something that is very helpful. | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:48 Inschato wrote: Someone in here mentioned the void ray requires twilight council, which is incorrect. Gateway -> Cyber -> Stargate = Void Ray. You are correct. No twilight council is needed. Twilight council is for templar and such. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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Derby
Sweden31 Posts
As a lot of people have pointed out, rushing for Void Ray severely lowers the amount of ground units you have early on. This can be exploited as a Zerg. I need to have some Zealots, a couple of cannons and maybe a Sentry to hold off an early Zerg attack with Roaches. This makes my Void Ray come out a bit later. Once my Void Ray is out and is at the Zergs base, they usually have 3 hydras ready to defend and sometimes an expansion. The first two days I could use the Void ray to kill Zergs who just spammed Roaches. Now (when the Zergs have learned that a protoss can defend a Roach rush and tech to Void Rays) it's a method I use to force them to stop making Roaches and defend a bit more which gives me time to tech and expand. Atm Zergs are giving me the hardest time. They can get a lot of mapcontrol while I tech and take my first expansion, because I feel I can't really move out until I have charge, storm and maybe Collossi and Immortals. It's even worse when they manage to snipe my observers all the time so I can't see what their army is composed of. I'm hardly the best Protoss player so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but now you've got my view of it. | ||
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:52 Nightmarjoo wrote: Gosh Khaymus, what's wrong with you? Everyone knows voidray is 5th tier tech and takes an hour to build. Only a complete noob who doesn't make queens couldn't stop that! haha  I know rite dude? Why am I such n00b? I should increase APM and then I could beat scrubs. rofl On February 23 2010 02:54 Derby wrote: My view of it as a protossplayer in the beta. As a lot of people have pointed out, rushing for Void Ray severely lowers the amount of ground units you have early on. This can be exploited as a Zerg. I need to have some Zealots, a couple of cannons and maybe a Sentry to hold off an early Zerg attack with Roaches. This makes my Void Ray come out a bit later. Once my Void Ray is out and is at the Zergs base, they usually have 3 hydras ready to defend and sometimes an expansion. The first two days I could use the Void ray to kill Zergs who just spammed Roaches. Now (when the Zergs have learned that a protoss can defend a Roach rush and tech to Void Rays) it's a method I use to force them to stop making Roaches and defend a bit more which gives me time to tech and expand. Atm Zergs are giving me the hardest time. They can get a lot of mapcontrol while I tech and take my first expansion, because I feel I can't really move out until I have charge, storm and maybe Collossi and Immortals. It's even worse when they manage to snipe my observers all the time so I can't see what their army is composed of. I'm hardly the best Protoss player so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but now you've got my view of it. Thanks. These are the kind of responses that I love! It sounds as if the zerg cannot stick around on teir 1 for too long on this matchup. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:51 Khaymus wrote: You are correct. No twilight council is needed. Twilight council is for templar and such. Twilight council upgrades charge/blink and allows you to build dark shrine/templar archives. It's intermediary tech, just like the citadel of adun was, and doens't enable building of any new units. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On February 23 2010 02:57 QuakerOats wrote: I also don't have the beta but I'd imagine it's similar to SC1... if toss is going one base tech you generally have to either keep pressure at the ramp to try and see what he's doing or sacrifice an ovy. Why would you make a lot of roaches with absolutely zero scouting information and not even pressure with them? Read above about not posting advice if you are not in the beta. Most games are 1 base tech and the sentry/stalker can snipe an overlord easily. There's a lot of space to scout and to lose that overlord is extremely detrimental for a 1 base zerg who's getting those extra larvae within seconds. | ||
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