I don't like the aesthetics at all. Not sure what everyone's raving about. Textures look unnatural and sloppy, doodads are messy.

Been meaning to make a map with towers on islands for like ever... I'm sad you beat me to it. But it's probably good, since I likely never would have gotten around to it.

It does seem hard to take a third here as has been mentioned. No way that's as open as Daybreak, though; idk what Timetwister's talking about.

Fatam

1986 Posts

April 10 2013 16:46 GMT

#22

it's been done before by me and a few other people too, if I'm remembering correctly. Don't ask me to find their threads though, lol.

+ Show Spoiler +

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383348
had XNT on cliff-walkable islands that are also useable by air units.

That's not to say that the idea is that original or that I am trying to lay claim to it.. cuz it's not and I'm not, but there is some precedent there. A useless precedent though, since we still don't know if they're worth doing, because no map with them has been played en masse yet.

Gfire

United States1699 Posts

April 10 2013 16:54 GMT

#23

I remember that map but not the watchtowers, lol.

But no reason to think they're not worth doing... I'm not sure how that'd even be possible.

Fatam

1986 Posts

April 10 2013 17:03 GMT

#24

Yeah idk. I actually though they were a little more interesting in WOL than HOTS.. because in WOL people rarely went reaper and stargate openings weren't as huge (in the case of XNTs useable by air units), so it was a good way to encourage the underused units/openings to be used. In HOTS some Terrans open reapers in all 3 matchups, and some Protoss open stargate in all 3 matchups.. lolol. Not really any need to encourage either opening anymore. Not to say that island XNTs are bad now, because they're probably still fine, but before, the feature helped the weaker openings. Now it rewards the stronger openings.

Gfire

United States1699 Posts

April 10 2013 17:15 GMT

#25

Well, my thoughts were more towards islands that can't be reached by reapers/colossi and towers which are normal and can only be taken by ground units. Therefore, it requires drops, blink or changelings to get to. Or possibly warp ins if it's in range and not on high ground. It might be kinda lame if you can reach them with reapers.

SidianTheBard

United States2474 Posts

April 11 2013 16:25 GMT

#26

I like this map quite a bit. As others have said the biggest problem could be getting a 3rd. It's very open and therefore could be tough for protoss and terran. Plus the highground right infront of the 3rd would be a perfect spot for the terran or protoss to all-in from because it helps prevents flanks a little bit.

I love the placement of the 4ths though. With the rocks to block off the path makes it feel extremely safe from ground but still vulnerable from air which is perfect. (and I mean the 4ths assuming you expand to the 5/11 bases. Although, then you're expanding into the "other" territory. lol)

Aesthetics are A+. I also approve of all the border design. Not enough people are doing it and it only makes the overall look of the map look so much better. The manmade ramps on the ramps look very nice.

Great work!

Qikz

United Kingdom12022 Posts

April 11 2013 16:45 GMT

#27

How and or why are people saying the third is super open? I'm seeing 2 maybe 3 very small chokes to go into it. If that's super open, I don't know what to think anymore.

Also with the cliffs walkable back up into the main, collosus could go back to deal with drops.

Gfire

United States1699 Posts

April 11 2013 18:48 GMT

#28

On April 12 2013 01:45 Qikz wrote:
How and or why are people saying the third is super open? I'm seeing 2 maybe 3 very small chokes to go into it. If that's super open, I don't know what to think anymore.

Also with the cliffs walkable back up into the main, collosus could go back to deal with drops.

If the Colossus is around where you'd normally position your army, between the nat ramp and third, it wouldn't really be any quicker to go up that way.

As for the openness... It's about as exposed as Cloud Kingdom except you're at the bottom of two ramps and you have a cliff overlooking you. You're own nexus doesn't choke you up as much as cloud kingdom does. But you have to take the other side into account as well. Where Daybreak or Cloud Kingdom have a 3x ramp with rocks blocking most of it, leaving a 1FF choke, this map has a very forward bridge (looks like 3FF) and an additional 2x ramp.

The distance you have to go from your army placement to the opponent's defensive choke is so short here, though. You probably can't keep a defense set up at the bridge, so you'll likely let the opponent through and you'll be in a totally open area to defend, unless you have good map vision and can get in position, and can be sure there won't be a runby into your third.

What's cool is that PvZ is probably the matchup where you don't have to worry about the cliff at all, so you can actually give up control of the high ground there and wall in on the low ground. Still a low ground wall so that's not too great (reminds me of XNC,) but interesting.

Overall it's a third that requires a lot of map vision in order to secure. If you can hold the tower and have some spotting out in the middle and up beyond the 2x ramp, you should be able to hold it.

I'd see Protoss needing quite a few observers as well as a warp prism or blink to secure the tower. Blink would really help defending vs drops as well, so it could be a good map for that PvT.

I'd be a little scared of Swarm Host play since it looks like they could attack into your third from behind their own bridge, which seems messed up if they can just drop a changeling at the tower and be able to deal with any attacks on that side.

My thoughts so far anyway.

fuzzylogic44

Canada2633 Posts

April 12 2013 00:18 GMT

#29

I would prefer a straight up fire vs ice theme... the jungle, installation, and protoss platoform stuff sprinkled in just makes it kind of disjointed thematically.

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

April 13 2013 22:30 GMT

#30

I have to agree with fuzzylogic, but as mapmaker it's really freaking hard to resist the tentation so i won't whine about that, i will whine about using too many things in the map itself, and by that i mean to not use more frozen lake doodads in the area you could have do (bottom right corner) but wherever.

Overall i like the map and feeling it has, but i would have like it more if you had placed a base around here even if it turns out to be just a half base, that way you give the chance to the players to expand in a clock wise direction and not just in a linear way.

I'm not sure how i feel about the xel'nagas since i don't think they will see much use other than by zerg players and some terrans which want to open with reapers, one thing that im really curious about is that if these doodads in where i would place the third base have LoS blockers, coz if they don't i would add some, that way Z can put a overlord there to spot the mineral lines when the player thinks he needs to.

About the openess of the third im kind of fine with it but it can be a problem, and for that i would add LoS blockers in the ramp and on top of it like this + Show Spoiler +

, that way you reduce the OPness of a 2base all in that takes that route since it is imposible to get a suround in that area, but you leave the other ramp alone, since it's easier to defend an attack coming across it.

And dunno how + Show Spoiler [this] +

managed to pass everysingle one of you guys, but i would fix the hell of that thing right now.