Hey all! After constructing My Magnum Opus, I've completed another, admittedly less polished, map to show you all. There are a couple of special traits to it, so...:
-An expansion pattern that's mostly linear, with a slightly ambiguous 4th base position. -Xel'Naga Towers. They're cut off from ground units, barring Reapers and Colossi.
The 4th bases here are farther away than on most maps, but it doesn't push it as much as Antiga Shipyard does. We'll see how this goes I guess.
The Xel'Naga Towers will be difficult to take hold of early on, but they aren't very important early on with their positioning. They're designed to be more powerful in the mid/late game, where taking them shouldn't be as difficult.
The aesthetics were the funnest part of making the map, as you can probably tell. Huzzah!:
Oh man, this map is TOO sexy. I'm currently working on a dual themed map myself (not fire and ice though). This map looks like it would break so many subpar pc's and I love that.
I'm curious how you got four cliffs in there? And do you have to drop units to activate the XNT?
On April 07 2013 16:26 KingCorwin wrote: Oh man, this map is TOO sexy. I'm currently working on a dual themed map myself (not fire and ice though). This map looks like it would break so many subpar pc's and I love that.
I'm curious how you got four cliffs in there?
You just add them, br0. You can have up to 4 cliffs in a map at a time. The real question is: how did I get the starship cliffs to not be starship cliffs? :O
On April 07 2013 16:26 KingCorwin wrote: And do you have to drop units to activate the XNT?
Yeah, or you could use a reaper. OR, you could land a barracks and produce a marine. But if you're not T, then yeah. Drop.
On April 07 2013 16:26 KingCorwin wrote: Oh man, this map is TOO sexy. I'm currently working on a dual themed map myself (not fire and ice though). This map looks like it would break so many subpar pc's and I love that.
I'm curious how you got four cliffs in there? And do you have to drop units to activate the XNT?
1. Hide Terrain Cell -> Put water or doodad to hide the blackness Increase Fog, Add the Cliff Doodad to give the illusion of another cliff level.
2. How to make Starship Cliffs not Starship Cliffs: Use Mesh of Immortal Forge.
On April 07 2013 16:26 KingCorwin wrote: Oh man, this map is TOO sexy. I'm currently working on a dual themed map myself (not fire and ice though). This map looks like it would break so many subpar pc's and I love that.
I'm curious how you got four cliffs in there? And do you have to drop units to activate the XNT?
1. Hide Terrain Cell -> Put water or doodad to hide the blackness Increase Fog, Add the Cliff Doodad to give the illusion of another cliff level.
2. How to make Starship Cliffs not Starship Cliffs: Use Mesh of Immortal Forge.
Why not give actual help, Newsunshine?
*shrugs* Why be so serious?
Anyway, about the 4 cliffs, I suppose that was probably what he meant, didn't realize. You're wrong, though, I didn't increase the fog. Didn't have to with what I actually did.
If anyone wants to pick the map apart and figure it out, it's unlocked for anyone to open themselves. I don't wanna just spill it, that's no fun.
OR!!!! You could blink a stalker up there! OR!!!! You could use a changeling! OR!!! You could build a nydus canal up there! And in WoL you could use a low ground pylon! Plenty of ways to take that watchtower! F you Terran!
I see a very clear top vs. bottom expansion direction. The 4th doesn't seem hard to take at all. Rather easy, actually. It's further away, but if you kill the rocks, it leaves you with fewer attack paths to defend than on 3 bases, and even without the rocks there, the attack path is narrower than the one near the third.
It would make more sense to move the collapsible rocks in front of the 4th to the center, and even widen the path where the collapsible rocks are now.
Almost all your paths are either 1 wide or 2 wide. The ramp leading to the center of the map from the backwards facing central bases in particular is too narrow.
On April 07 2013 16:26 KingCorwin wrote: Oh man, this map is TOO sexy. I'm currently working on a dual themed map myself (not fire and ice though). This map looks like it would break so many subpar pc's and I love that.
I'm curious how you got four cliffs in there? And do you have to drop units to activate the XNT?
1. Hide Terrain Cell -> Put water or doodad to hide the blackness Increase Fog, Add the Cliff Doodad to give the illusion of another cliff level.
2. How to make Starship Cliffs not Starship Cliffs: Use Mesh of Immortal Forge.
Why not give actual help, Newsunshine?
*shrugs* Why be so serious?
Anyway, about the 4 cliffs, I suppose that was probably what he meant, didn't realize. You're wrong, though, I didn't increase the fog. Didn't have to with what I actually did.
If anyone wants to pick the map apart and figure it out, it's unlocked for anyone to open themselves. I don't wanna just spill it, that's no fun.
Well you could have just lowered the terrain level, that'd achieve the same thing
The aesthetics are great. A+. However, did you forget to add a third base? Protoss is struggling super hard to get a third vs drops/mutas these days because of speed medivacs/muta speed and regen. Thus, the base with the collapsible rocks is most certainly not a third. The base along the main is more open then the forward fourth on Daybreak, and is in tower vision. Granted, tower is on an island, but a changeling or medivac solves that problem.
Overall, the layout just seems rushed. Though, you did kind of point that out yourselves, so w/e. Aesthetic maps are certainly fun to do every once and a while.
On April 07 2013 17:45 Timetwister22 wrote: The aesthetics are great. A+. However, did you forget to add a third base? Protoss is struggling super hard to get a third vs drops/mutas these days because of speed medivacs/muta speed and regen. Thus, the base with the collapsible rocks is most certainly not a third. The base along the main is more open then the forward fourth on Daybreak, and is in tower vision. Granted, tower is on an island, but a changeling or medivac solves that problem.
Overall, the layout just seems rushed. Though, you did kind of point that out yourselves, so w/e. Aesthetic maps are certainly fun to do every once and a while.
The line about polish was a joke, but thanks for that. And if you're using the tower to scout the 3rd base, then the unit that enables you to get that tower could easily have done it without it.
'tis war, regardless! We shall shoot pies out of catapults, your move.
also NewSunshineSir... badmapyo
I like the difficult to take thirds (one being surrounded by highground and a tower, even if it is on an island, and the othe being far away). Cute aesthetics.
I don't like the aesthetics at all. Not sure what everyone's raving about. Textures look unnatural and sloppy, doodads are messy.
Been meaning to make a map with towers on islands for like ever... I'm sad you beat me to it. But it's probably good, since I likely never would have gotten around to it.
It does seem hard to take a third here as has been mentioned. No way that's as open as Daybreak, though; idk what Timetwister's talking about.
That's not to say that the idea is that original or that I am trying to lay claim to it.. cuz it's not and I'm not, but there is some precedent there. A useless precedent though, since we still don't know if they're worth doing, because no map with them has been played en masse yet.
Yeah idk. I actually though they were a little more interesting in WOL than HOTS.. because in WOL people rarely went reaper and stargate openings weren't as huge (in the case of XNTs useable by air units), so it was a good way to encourage the underused units/openings to be used. In HOTS some Terrans open reapers in all 3 matchups, and some Protoss open stargate in all 3 matchups.. lolol. Not really any need to encourage either opening anymore. Not to say that island XNTs are bad now, because they're probably still fine, but before, the feature helped the weaker openings. Now it rewards the stronger openings.
Well, my thoughts were more towards islands that can't be reached by reapers/colossi and towers which are normal and can only be taken by ground units. Therefore, it requires drops, blink or changelings to get to. Or possibly warp ins if it's in range and not on high ground. It might be kinda lame if you can reach them with reapers.
I like this map quite a bit. As others have said the biggest problem could be getting a 3rd. It's very open and therefore could be tough for protoss and terran. Plus the highground right infront of the 3rd would be a perfect spot for the terran or protoss to all-in from because it helps prevents flanks a little bit.
I love the placement of the 4ths though. With the rocks to block off the path makes it feel extremely safe from ground but still vulnerable from air which is perfect. (and I mean the 4ths assuming you expand to the 5/11 bases. Although, then you're expanding into the "other" territory. lol)
Aesthetics are A+. I also approve of all the border design. Not enough people are doing it and it only makes the overall look of the map look so much better. The manmade ramps on the ramps look very nice.
How and or why are people saying the third is super open? I'm seeing 2 maybe 3 very small chokes to go into it. If that's super open, I don't know what to think anymore.
Also with the cliffs walkable back up into the main, collosus could go back to deal with drops.
On April 12 2013 01:45 Qikz wrote: How and or why are people saying the third is super open? I'm seeing 2 maybe 3 very small chokes to go into it. If that's super open, I don't know what to think anymore.
Also with the cliffs walkable back up into the main, collosus could go back to deal with drops.
If the Colossus is around where you'd normally position your army, between the nat ramp and third, it wouldn't really be any quicker to go up that way.
As for the openness... It's about as exposed as Cloud Kingdom except you're at the bottom of two ramps and you have a cliff overlooking you. You're own nexus doesn't choke you up as much as cloud kingdom does. But you have to take the other side into account as well. Where Daybreak or Cloud Kingdom have a 3x ramp with rocks blocking most of it, leaving a 1FF choke, this map has a very forward bridge (looks like 3FF) and an additional 2x ramp.
The distance you have to go from your army placement to the opponent's defensive choke is so short here, though. You probably can't keep a defense set up at the bridge, so you'll likely let the opponent through and you'll be in a totally open area to defend, unless you have good map vision and can get in position, and can be sure there won't be a runby into your third.
What's cool is that PvZ is probably the matchup where you don't have to worry about the cliff at all, so you can actually give up control of the high ground there and wall in on the low ground. Still a low ground wall so that's not too great (reminds me of XNC,) but interesting.
Overall it's a third that requires a lot of map vision in order to secure. If you can hold the tower and have some spotting out in the middle and up beyond the 2x ramp, you should be able to hold it.
I'd see Protoss needing quite a few observers as well as a warp prism or blink to secure the tower. Blink would really help defending vs drops as well, so it could be a good map for that PvT.
I'd be a little scared of Swarm Host play since it looks like they could attack into your third from behind their own bridge, which seems messed up if they can just drop a changeling at the tower and be able to deal with any attacks on that side.
I would prefer a straight up fire vs ice theme... the jungle, installation, and protoss platoform stuff sprinkled in just makes it kind of disjointed thematically.
I have to agree with fuzzylogic, but as mapmaker it's really freaking hard to resist the tentation so i won't whine about that, i will whine about using too many things in the map itself, and by that i mean to not use more frozen lake doodads in the area you could have do (bottom right corner) but wherever.
Overall i like the map and feeling it has, but i would have like it more if you had placed a base around here even if it turns out to be just a half base, that way you give the chance to the players to expand in a clock wise direction and not just in a linear way.
I'm not sure how i feel about the xel'nagas since i don't think they will see much use other than by zerg players and some terrans which want to open with reapers, one thing that im really curious about is that if these doodads in where i would place the third base have LoS blockers, coz if they don't i would add some, that way Z can put a overlord there to spot the mineral lines when the player thinks he needs to.
About the openess of the third im kind of fine with it but it can be a problem, and for that i would add LoS blockers in the ramp and on top of it like this + Show Spoiler +
, that way you reduce the OPness of a 2base all in that takes that route since it is imposible to get a suround in that area, but you leave the other ramp alone, since it's easier to defend an attack coming across it.
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