EPTOn a completely unrelated topic, MorroW, do you have any plans on rebalancing the Micro Tournament you made? Its still a very popular map, Ive played it a lot. Some of the levels are just completely impossible for one of the players. Examples would be: 4stalker + 2 archons vs about 16 mutas. (never seen anyone lose with thr mutas) or 2 sealots vs 3 marines and an scv (never seen the zealots lose).
[A] Desert Tower Defense [TD] - Page 3
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Millet
Sweden143 Posts
On a completely unrelated topic, MorroW, do you have any plans on rebalancing the Micro Tournament you made? Its still a very popular map, Ive played it a lot. Some of the levels are just completely impossible for one of the players. Examples would be: 4stalker + 2 archons vs about 16 mutas. (never seen anyone lose with thr mutas) or 2 sealots vs 3 marines and an scv (never seen the zealots lose). | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On January 03 2013 14:11 OrbitalPlane wrote: this is just my personal prefence but i think if you look at the popular maps right now it seems like most people will agree on that. Maps like squadron td, nexus wars, dessert strike, krash td or random td all have the same concept of players competing against each other. Even SC2 on it's own. Who would still play it if you could only play against the Ai? I think the kind of map you did will become boring after some hours of play even if you fix all the balance stuff which will be far more difficult than most people would expect. If you build this td into a ffa or 2 teams td and adjust a few things then a lot of the problems right now would balance out on its own. One of the first things i would adjust would be the eco system. If you make the workers very cheap and cost minearls then the player can balance his amount of eco and the tower's strength. perhaps i will add the individual lane mode (where its ffa) and make it default what i want to do with the cooperation option is to later down the road remove so units doesnt just spawn for amount of lanes that players are in. i want to force it to always spawn in every single mode so every single player is required unless your a hard core tower defenser and try to beat the co-op with only 4 players etc. back in bw this is usually how td's were played once you beat them the first time, is by just playing with less and less amount of players and still try to beat it and thats what i wanna do with the co-op mode. however the reason i didnt do that yet is because the map is still under alot of balance tweaking where units spawning in every lane would just not be something i can draw feedback from On January 03 2013 19:21 Millet wrote: Seems very promising, but I also have difficulty reaching past the 36ish level. On a completely unrelated topic, MorroW, do you have any plans on rebalancing the Micro Tournament you made? Its still a very popular map, Ive played it a lot. Some of the levels are just completely impossible for one of the players. Examples would be: 4stalker + 2 archons vs about 16 mutas. (never seen anyone lose with thr mutas) or 2 sealots vs 3 marines and an scv (never seen the zealots lose). the plans right now for that map is to wait until hots an make a huge swell of levels added into it, as well as some balance changes to the current one | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
 (had many requests about it)Patch 1.14 Game Design: Individual game mode added and set as default. - Individual Mode: All players has their own lives and lane. - Cooperation: All players share lives and units spawn from 8 lanes. Balance Changes: - Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon cooldown increased from 1.4 to 1.45 - Zergling movement speed decreased from 4 to 3.5 edit: Patch 1.15 Bugs: - Haste is now properly applied to waves. Balance Changes: - Spore Crawler - Acid Spew weapon cooldown decreased from 1.75 to 1.65 - Spore Crawler - Acid Spore weapon cooldown decreased from 1.75 to 1.65 - Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon range increased from 3 to 4 - Roach - Acid Saliva weapon range increased from 4 to 5 - Engineering Bay - Adrenal Glands gas cost decreased from 145 to 120 - Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto decreased from 100 to 75 - All unit move speeds have been avaraged to their respective plane (ground and air) - Waves with Shields level requirement increased from 10 to 15 - The starting gas for each player increased from 30 to 130 | ||
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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Millet
Sweden143 Posts
the plans right now for that map is to wait until hots an make a huge swell of levels added into it, as well as some balance changes to the current one Thank you for answering. I'm looking forward to it very much Good luck with this TD! | ||
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budde
Sweden4 Posts
If I'm playing Coop with my friend then 8 lanes are impossible, and we still want to play together (as in, not individual mode). They way it was before 1.14 was fine, maybe add that as a 3rd mode? | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On January 05 2013 00:36 budde wrote: Nice map! Any chance to make it so that it DOESN'T start in all 8 lanes when playing coop? If I'm playing Coop with my friend then 8 lanes are impossible, and we still want to play together (as in, not individual mode). They way it was before 1.14 was fine, maybe add that as a 3rd mode? i might add a 2v2v2v2 option | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
the concept of the warp prism is a good one. makes you think about tower placement and what you want in the radius. my only suggestion besides obvious balance tweaks would be to have the prism be an air unit, so that the player has more perfect control over where they want it. on the topic of air units, i was thinking it might be a good idea to make all the support towers movable. i think its good that gas is sped up a bit. in the new version it feels like i can actually get enough to do things with it. what do you think about adding units to the game? i was thinking that one of the major issues im coming across is some wave types are not just possible to beat, and trying to be well rounded usually is not the best idea. now lets say you had a unit with a special ability, you could use it strategically to overcome the waves that counter you, or you could use it as a means for saving up more mins for an upgrade, or maybe when gas is fixed, if you were good at using the unit you could go more into eco and save your gas units for later. just a thought. overall i think the new version is a solid improvement. im going to play it a bit more then come back with some more ideas. | ||
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budde
Sweden4 Posts
Sweet! That would be awesome. However, a "n vs Computer" option would be even better, so that you can play coop with 2-7 friends against the computer. Again, thank you for making the map and responding to suggestions. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On January 05 2013 04:34 budde wrote: Sweet! That would be awesome. However, a "n vs Computer" option would be even better, so that you can play coop with 2-7 friends against the computer. Again, thank you for making the map and responding to suggestions. i hope you enjoy the map!working hard here because theres more people than i expected playing it and still trying to beat it )) forgot to update this thread on the latest few patches Patch 1.16 Balance Changes: - Damage Level 6 cost reduced from 480 to 160 - Damage Level 6 damage bonus decreased from 400% to 100% - Damage Level 7 cost reduced from 1920 to 320 - Damage Level 7 damage bonus decreased from 400% to 100% - Speed upgrade costs reduced from [20, 50, 150, 400, 1000] to [5, 15, 45, 135, 405] - Zergling - Claws weapon cooldown reduced from 0.58 to 0.54 - Roach - Acid Saliva weapon can now hit Air and Ground targets - Engineering Bay - Evolve Acid Spore upgrade gas cost reduced from 150 to 125 - Engineering Bay - Research Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade gas cost reduced from 225 to 200 Patch 1.17 Balance Changes: - Infestor - Fungal Growth energy cost decreased from 75 to 60 Engineering Bay - Evolve Grooved Spines upgrade added: - Increases Hydralisk towers base damage by 1, costs 400 gas Infestor - Infested Terran ability added: - Spawn an Infested Terran. Infested Terrans last 20 seconds, costs 25 energy - Amount of plasma shields given to wave units with Shields now set to 500 and spread amongst them rather than all gaining 50 shields - The max amount of probes that can be build from the nexus increased from 3 to 4 Patch 1.18 Balance Changes: - Marine - Stimpack attack and movement speed increased from 25% to 35% - Medivac - Heal health increased per energy increased from 2 to 3 - Roach - Severe Corruption slowing effect increased from 35% to 40% - Archon - Psionic Shockwave weapon cooldown decreased from 2.65 to 2.5 - Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon weapon cooldown decreased from 1.45 to 1.35 - Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon weapon damage decreased from 4 (vs Psionic: 5) to 3 (vs Psionic: 5) Engineering Bay - Research Power Charge upgrade added: - Increases Archon towers splash damage by 25%, costs 250 gas Engineering Bay - Research Crystal Core upgrade added: - Increases Immoral anti-massive damage by 7, costs 325 gas Engineering Bay - Revamped Reloading upgrade added: - Increases Siege Tanks attack speed by 20%, costs 275 gas Engineering Bay - Impact Tail upgrade added: - The third bounce of the Mutalisk tower deals 200% damage, costs 250 gas | ||
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AGameAnx
Lithuania6 Posts
I really like the latest improvements. Still gets hectic after lvl 30, there's a bunch of things I will suggest below but overall it's getting to a much better point, it's possible to get a bunch of gas purchases now and use them, that makes it more and more exciting. I like. With good use of gas unit abilities it seems to be possible to survive for longer now and it might now indeed be possible to figure out ways of surviving longer so some of my complaints might end up being a bit invalid, heh. Still, I've got tons of suggestions, as that's the nature of things when it comes to my personality :D It's also a nature of things of me to write huge walls of text, I hope you don't mind it too much, I promise to try to keep useless chatter to minimum ^^ My apologies. I would also like to apologize if I repeat some of the suggestions posted in the thread before as I'm quite frankly too lazy to read it  First of all, realize: I played this map a lot in the past few days but I've played it only by myself on Easy. Not that big of a deal I think, but I thought I should mention that. So yes, here's a list of bugs, suggestions, complaints and ideas I had so far:
Here's also few more of more random type of suggestions you might want consider, to make the map even more interesting:
Also, please stream again, I miss it very much! Cheers and thanks for your hard workEDIT: Just gave it a few more goes and a bunch of these things that I've mentioned are really working out better. I find myself dying mostly due to regenerating units and armored flying units. Pretty much required to get pylons and acid spores, I find | ||
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baysehero
United States3 Posts
also, the siege tank cannot fire at point blank range. i don't know if this is intended, but it is really annoying and makes the tower that much weaker. other than that though i really like this map thanks MorroW ! | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
im trying to think out ways to focus down "tech routes" more aswell. as it is right now theres pretty much 1~ upgrade per tower. what im currently thinking off is that i might add upgrades with many levels to simply increase the damage output of the particular tower which your going with. in that way there is always a gas sink while all the gas uses right now are for very specific situations. the reason i didnt do something like this yet is because i dont want the map to become a mindless spam upgrade tower defense where you have no decisions to make past the first 10 minutes of the game, so im afraid that might happen the difficulty overall (how enemy hp scales each level) will get set easier within time. its good to keep it too hard initially to find out how far different tech routes can go and how strong they are etc if its not a faceroll throughout the game. after so much testing ive started to learn how the income works with gas and minerals which will open up some opportunities to perhaps add features such as transferring gas into minerals - or the other way around there are also plans to be able to sell towers rather than simply destroying them, so no more scvs trapped around level 1 towers i will look into regeneration and i do believe it needs more of a rework than a simple nerf. units that are slow and has reg are literally impossible to kill (slower units gain alot higher health than otherwise making the reg/sec ridic) still waiting for help in the blizzard editor forum to learn how to improve some of the UI which would help greatly in things such as sim city in other words, theres still alot of things i wanna do with the map and im working very hard at improving it daily | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
one thing to note is i feel like immortals are too valuable. every game i play i feel like i have to make them. im not sure if that means that the immortal is too good, or the massive rounds are too hard, or im just crazy. i think hydras could use a rework. just like in the real game, they are similar to marines, but just worse. for anti light they really arent optimal either, since well placed hellions will do a better job. their gas upgrade is probably better than the marine's since getting stim requires you to spend gas on medivacs. although the extra base damage just puts them on par with marine damage, and it comes down to how you value extra to light, which for me is not much. mutas have been my go to unit now with their upgrade, i think making them the best all purpose damage, especially with the photon nerf. my best games so far have been a hellion/muta/immortal combo. i havent really played around much with the slow towers, roach and marauder. my thought process has mostly been i need damage to kill the wave before the next spawns, and slows dont really help. they might be better if i used tanks or archons more, but i think those two towers are kind of weak. i havent made a single zergling either. this might be a mistake, especially with prism range being a pretty cheap upgrade. id imagine the unit would function like a hellion, such that it only works in a few places in the maze. storm tower totally eclipses infestor tower. the % damage on storm is godlike. an idea i had would be to add a damage modifier for fungal, say fungaled units take an extra 50% damage, even after fungal ends. so storm deals damage and snares, but fungal makes your towers better and immobolizes. makes it a harder decision to choose between the two. it could also provide a synergy. fungal some stuff to keep the immobile, then storm for mass damage. could be fun. | ||
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Spriestgod
Sweden4 Posts
Has anyone had any decent success with using ground only/air only towers? Right now a stalker and an archon seems to me to be preferrable over a zergling and a spore colony for pretty much anything. I feel like as a lot of you mention the game getting hard at levels 30-40, you are pretty much just playing it wrong. I'm pretty consistently getting to mid 50's, and I still feel my builds can use a lot of optimization. For those of you having issues with it, getting a well placed, range-prismed mutalisk is key to the strats I use. For Morrow: The first two speed upgrades are fine, but the third and onwards are pretty much pointless. Same thing goes for the tower upgrades that cost 320. Waiting 11 levels to get an upgrade just to find out that you either just upped AOE when Immortal needed an upgrade or vice versa is pretty much a cointoss with death. This could largely be prevented by showing the levels further ahead. If you for instance saw what you were going to face 5 levels ahead, it would be a lot easier to cope with. It may just be me being paranoid, but I feel like some runs I dont get the expected 30 gold from every level. is this intended? Is it even happening? (might just be a tired mind struggling to find something to blame, too!) You mentioned wanting to make gas economy a choice you had to make. pretty much letting the user try to squeeze in as many probes as possible without dying because of it. It's currently not a choice. You make five, then up. It's not exactly pointless, its fundamentally the same thing as the first minute of a ladder game, but It doesn't really add anything either. Maybe make levels 10-20 harder? Oh, and thanks for making a great map. Something about it brings me back to the defenses of SC and Brood War, back before games were supposed to be easy. Something that has already had me glued to it for hours. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
also regeneration should be fixed but theres a risk its not well see oh and the feel of being forced to use immortal tower every game should be gone now since on low number waves it can be any unit type (rather than thor, colossus or ultralisk etc) in coming patches i think ill just have to focus on spellcasters unless theres some major flaws about the forge or drone. Patch 1.19 Balance Changes: Mutalisk - Impact Tail modified: Old: The third impact deals 200% damage. New: Allows the Glave Wurm to bounce 1 more target. - Waves with low numbers of units can now be any unit type, waves with high number of units still restrics certain unit types Regeneration total health loss increased from 15% to 20% Regeneration total health loss for single creep waves increased from 15% to 50% - Drones can no longer be spawned as waves - Queens can now be spawned as waves - Queens have gained the Armored attribute Patch 2.0 Balance Changes Nexus can now build drones. Drone: Basic worker unit, can gather minerals. Costs 30 minerals and 150 gas to build - Maximum count for drones set to 3 - Probe cost increased from 0 minerals and 150 gas to 20 minerals and 150 gas - Drone movement speed decreased from 2.813 to 2.398 - Probe movement speed decreased from 2.813 to 2.602 Advanced Structure added: Forge: Contains generic upgrades for towers that target specific unit groups, costs 60 gas Upgrades available in the forge (Upgrades the damage dealt): - Impact Attacks: Zerglings, mutalisks and spore crawlers. - Missile Attacks: Hydralisks and roaches. - Disruptor Weapons: Stalkers and immortals. - Infantry Weapons: Infantry units. - Psionic Weapons: Archons and photon cannons. - Vehicle Weapons: Vehicles and missile turrets. | ||
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MasterReY
Germany2708 Posts
- Some Queens dont get slowed by maraduer despite being NOT massive. - Sometimes you dont get all minerals for the waves. - Queens have 1 armor, despite no other having any armor. | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
bugs: massive rounds are seeming nonexistent. i think i had one carrier round. havent gone past level 36 in the new version though. thoughts: i like the new economy. it makes the early game harder and you have to be more thoughtful. i think the game overall is actually more difficult than previous versions with the inclusion of low number of armored/light units. thought from my games it appears massive low number units have all but vanished. some gas upgrades could use a rework. im actually thinking an across the board decrease on gas cost for the special upgrades (like hydra damage). you have a lot of options to spend your gas now, and some of the special upgrades have really fallen behind. for instance, +1 hydra damage for 400 gas, or a warp prism to give everything +1 for an extra 100, or a few unit upgrades that will also help your roaches. overlords/seers ruining basically every gave ive had now. lol. gonna try some builds using archons. on that note, spore crawlers could use some love. i think starting them with anti armored would be a good idea, since you could use them to deal with those overlord spawns. making it a detector would be nice too, so then you would have the option to specialize in either single target or multi target detection. i like how investing too much into eco right now can fuck you over. with the mineral cost you have to be careful right around the time you get that 3rd probe out, as waves start getting dangerous and you would be 60 mins down. my current strategy has been 2-1-2-1. i noticed that the 3rd drone is not as good as the previous two drones, which may or may not be intended, but its 30/150 value for me doesnt seem worth it until after ive dropped a bunch of gas on upgrades. a lot more options and builds to use. one thing i think might make things simpler is to just make it so forge upgrades do all terran/zerg/protoss buildings, instead of the specified ones. especially with how fast they ramp up in cost, it lets you have a more even spread of towers but still be upgrading them. | ||
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tehherzog
United States1 Post
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