|
been working on a new custom map (finally) and ive just uploaded it. bugs etc may still exist but i havent found any so far from my testing. normally i just make micro based custom maps (like micro tournamet or micro race etc) but i felt like doing something new this time 
to find the map just go to the arcade on eu or na and search for "desert tower defense" and it should be there
the maps main server is EU which means the map on NA server may be outdated at various points or be unstable (battle.net 2.0 is a pain in the ass to upload maps to with all locale bs)
the difficulty is set to easy by default, which is unchangeable when playing open games (it wont let me allow that for some reason), however in the game lobby when hosting private games you can change the difficulty to normal or hard too. the difficulty level is simply how much % hp the waves have (90% for easy, 100% for normal and 110% for hard). here a screenshot
you can leave comments here, arcade reviews etc if you find any bugs or have any comments^^
the map is hard (even on easy) so good luck~
- - - Desert Tower Defense [TD] - - -
Screen shots (may be outdated)
![[image loading]](http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8121/screenshot2013010119522.jpg)
UI Information
+ Show Spoiler +
Basic Towers
+ Show Spoiler +
Advanced Structure
+ Show Spoiler +
Full screenshot (large image)
Players: 1-8
Summarize: Basic lane tower defense map without mazing yourself
Description:
Build towers to kill the units before they reach the end. There are both air waves and cloaked. Make sure you are covered on all fronts.
Collect minerals by killing units. Harvest gas from the assimilator.
Additional Information (In-depth):
The enemy waves are very versatile, sometimes many units, sometimes few. Ground as well as air units.
All basic towers you build have identical cost but are designed very differently to counter different types of waves. Investing in wrong types of towers at any given point often results in a quick death. Study the next wave information (on the right side of your screen) and prepare for it. If you are unsure what to build there are always more generic towers to fall back on, such as marines or mutalisks.
The advanced structures only cost gas, which is harvested from your assimilator. They are all unique and most of them cant be upgraded like the basic towers can (with damage and speed). However the advanced structures are mostly support and the ones that deal damage deals damage in percentage of enemy hp.
The engineering bay contains upgrades that boots all towers of that type (for example stimpack upgrade gives stimpack to all marine towers)
You can increase your gas income by building more probes to harvest with (built from the nexus), however most of the times you need to spend your gas as soon as possible to stay alive in the game.
Every level the enemy hp increases at a higher rate than your mineral income (which is static) which means the later the game goes your gas investments, strategy and tower placement is what will keep you in the game rather than raw damage output.
This is not a very beginner friendly map and its completely normal if you die a few times before the 10 min mark. There are 130 levels to beat and should take about 50 minutes of game time to get to.
Cooperation between your allies is an option however not an requirement. Focusing completely on your own lane is the best way to go about things if your new to the map.
Patch Notes:
1.2
Map published to EU server.
- 130 levels
- 14 basic towers
- 2 Individual tower upgrades (damage and speed)
- 7 unique upgrades
- 5 advanced structures
- Level probability set to 80% ground, 20% air
- 5 level special types (regeneration, durable, haste, cloaked, shields)
1.8
Added difficulty levels options in lobby (Easy, Normal, Hard)
- Easy: Creeps spawn with 90% hp (default mode)
- Normal: Creeps spawn with 100% hp
- Hard: Creeps spawn with 110% hp
Increased the starting minerals amount to 50
Increased the starting vespene amount to 30
1.11
Bugs:
- Photon cannons now properly detects cloaked units
Balance changes:
- The basic total life increment of waves decreased from 110 to 105
- Time between waves increased from 25 to 30
- Overlord movement speed increased from 0.77 to 1.1
- Engineering bay vespene cost reduced from 40 to 30
1.12
Balance changes:
- Upgrade Speed mineral cost decreased from [25, 75, 225, 750, 2000] to [20, 60, 150, 400, 1000]
- Archon - Psionic Shockwave splash damage increased from [0.2, 0.4, 0.8] to [0.4, 0.6, 0.8]
- Zergling - Claws cooldown decreased from 0.625 to 0.58
- Roach - Acid Saliva range increased from 3 to 4
- Marine - C-14 Gauss Rifle range increased from 5 to 6
- Stalker - Particle Disrupters range increased from 6 to 7
- Hydralisk - Needle Spines range increased from 6 to 7
- Marauder - Punisher Grenades range increased from 6 to 7
- Immortal - Phase Disrupters range increased from 7 to 8
- Missile Turret - Longbolt Missile range increased from 8 to 9
- Medivac energy starting amount increased from 0 to 25
- Pylon energy starting amount increased from 0 to 25
- High Templar energy starting amount increased from 0 to 25
- Infestor energy starting amount decreased from 75 to 25
- Regeneration (Creep) life percentage decrement increased from 10% to 15%
1.3
Balance changes:
Added new advanced structure:
- Warp Prism, costs 50 gas: Passively buffs all nearby towers within 8 radius.
Warp Prism buffs: (must be upgraded)
- Range: +2 weapon range, costs 200 gas to upgrade
- Speed: +10% attack speed, costs 250 gas to upgrade.
- Damage: +1 base damage, costs 500 gas to upgrade.
- Marauder - Concussive Shatter upgrade splash radius reduced from 0.5 to 0.4
- Infestor cost decreased from 325 to 250
- Baneling now has the Light attribute
- Archon now has the Massive attribute
- Hellion movement speed decreased from 4.25 to 4
- Phoenix movement speed decreased from 4.25 to 4
- Air now comes every 5th level (first air at level 5) instead of having a 20% chance each level
- Phoenix, mutalisk and hellion waves are now unable to come with Haste
1.14
Game Design:
Individual game mode added and set as default.
- Individual Mode: All players has their own lives and lane.
- Cooperation: All players share lives and units spawn from 8 lanes.
Balance Changes:
- Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon cooldown increased from 1.4 to 1.45
- Zergling movement speed decreased from 4 to 3.5
1.15
Bugs:
- Haste is now properly applied to waves.
Balance Changes:
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spew weapon cooldown decreased from 1.75 to 1.65
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spore weapon cooldown decreased from 1.75 to 1.65
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon range increased from 3 to 4
- Roach - Acid Saliva weapon range increased from 4 to 5
- Engineering Bay - Adrenal Glands gas cost decreased from 145 to 120
- Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto decreased from 100 to 75
- All unit move speeds have been avaraged to their respective plane (ground and air)
- Waves with Shields level requirement increased from 10 to 15
- The starting gas for each player increased from 30 to 130
1.16
Balance Changes:
- Damage Level 6 cost reduced from 480 to 160
- Damage Level 6 damage bonus decreased from 400% to 100%
- Damage Level 7 cost reduced from 1920 to 320
- Damage Level 7 damage bonus decreased from 400% to 100%
- Speed upgrade costs reduced from [20, 50, 150, 400, 1000] to [5, 15, 45, 135, 405]
- Zergling - Claws weapon cooldown reduced from 0.58 to 0.54
- Roach - Acid Saliva weapon can now hit Air and Ground targets
- Engineering Bay - Evolve Acid Spore upgrade gas cost reduced from 150 to 125
- Engineering Bay - Research Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade gas cost reduced from 225 to 200
1.17
Balance Changes:
- Infestor - Fungal Growth energy cost decreased from 75 to 60
Engineering Bay - Evolve Grooved Spines upgrade added:
- Increases Hydralisk towers base damage by 1, costs 400 gas
Infestor - Infested Terran ability added:
- Spawn an Infested Terran. Infested Terrans last 20 seconds, costs 25 energy
- Amount of plasma shields given to wave units with Shields now set to 500 and spread amongst them rather than all gaining 50 shields
- The max amount of probes that can be build from the nexus increased from 3 to 4
1.18
Balance Changes:
- Marine - Stimpack attack and movement speed increased from 25% to 35%
- Medivac - Heal health increased per energy increased from 2 to 3
- Roach - Severe Corruption slowing effect increased from 35% to 40%
- Archon - Psionic Shockwave weapon cooldown decreased from 2.65 to 2.5
- Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon weapon cooldown decreased from 1.45 to 1.35
- Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon weapon damage decreased from 4 (vs Psionic: 5) to 3 (vs Psionic: 5)
Engineering Bay - Research Power Charge upgrade added:
- Increases Archon towers splash damage by 25%, costs 250 gas
Engineering Bay - Research Crystal Core upgrade added:
- Increases Immoral anti-massive damage by 7, costs 325 gas
Engineering Bay - Revamped Reloading upgrade added:
- Increases Siege Tanks attack speed by 20%, costs 275 gas
Engineering Bay - Impact Tail upgrade added:
- The third bounce of the Mutalisk tower deals 200% damage, costs 250 gas
1.19
Balance Changes:
Mutalisk - Impact Tail modified:
Old: The third impact deals 200% damage.
New: Allows the Glave Wurm to bounce 1 more target.
- Waves with low numbers of units can now be any unit type, waves with high number of units still restrics certain unit types
Regeneration total health loss increased from 15% to 20%
Regeneration total health loss for single creep waves increased from 15% to 50%
- Drones can no longer be spawned as waves
- Queens can now be spawned as waves
- Queens have gained the Armored attribute
2.0
Balance Changes
Nexus can now build drones.
Drone: Basic worker unit, can gather minerals. Costs 30 minerals and 150 gas to build
- Maximum count for drones set to 3
- Probe cost increased from 0 minerals and 150 gas to 20 minerals and 150 gas
- Drone movement speed decreased from 2.813 to 2.398
- Probe movement speed decreased from 2.813 to 2.602
Advanced Structure added:
Forge: Contains generic upgrades for towers that target specific unit groups, costs 60 gas
Upgrades available in the forge (Upgrades the damage dealt):
- Impact Attacks: Zerglings, mutalisks and spore crawlers.
- Missile Attacks: Hydralisks and roaches.
- Disruptor Weapons: Stalkers and immortals.
- Infantry Weapons: Infantry units.
- Psionic Weapons: Archons and photon cannons.
- Vehicle Weapons: Vehicles and missile turrets.
2.1
Balance Changes:
- Immortal - Phase Disrupters damage vs non-massive increased from 3 to 4
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spew and Acid Spore cooldown decreased from 1.65 to 1.6
- Siege Tank - Crucio Shock Cannon minimum range decreased from 4 to 2
- All forge upgrades gas cost increament per level increased from 100 to 125
- Medivac gas cost decreased from 100 to 80
Zergling Leap ability added.
- Leap: Leaps the zergling to target location, a has 8 second cooldown
Overlord special structure added, costs 400 gas
- Overlord: Passively buffs all zerg units, has Generate Creep
- Generate Creep: Zerg units on creep move and attack 20% faster.
- Clayman: Terran and Protoss units move 10% slower on the creep, costs 250 gas
Forge - Psionic Weapons now also gives +300 damage to Feedback ability
Forge - Missile Attacks now also gives +8 damage to Infested Terrans
2.2
Balance Changes:
- Zergling - Claws weapon range increased from 2 to 2.5
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon cooldown increased from 1.8 to 1.9
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spew anti-light damage increased from 5 to 6
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spore anti-armored damage increased from 5 to 6
- Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto Tracking range increment increased from 1 to 2
- Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto Tracking cost increased from 75 to 150
- Engineering Bay - Evolve Adrenal Glands attack speed increment increased from 20% to 25%
- Engineering Bay - Evolve Adrenal Glands cost increased from 120 to 250
- Engineering Bay - Research Infernal Pre-Igniter cost increased from 200 to 250
- Engineering Bay - Research Crystal Core cost decreased from 325 to 275
2.3
Game Design:
- Tower range display now shows for all towers when placing them rather than just a few towers
Balance Changes:
- High Templar - Psionic Storm damage changed from up to 80% full health to up to 1600 damage
- Leap, Fungal Growth, Infested Terran, Psionic Storm and Feedback range increased to 12
- Forge - Psionic Weapons now adds 240 damage to Psionic Storm
Engineering bay upgrade added.
- Research Disruption Coolers: Increases Stalker attack speed by 25%, costs 350 gas
Engineering bay upgrade added.
- Research Photon Load: Increases Photon Cannon anti-psionic damage by 1, costs 275 gas
Marine and Marauder waves now gain Stimpacks
- Stimpack is used whenever the unit is attacked and doesnt have the stimpack buff
- Stimpack buff: Increases movement speed by 50% for 10 seconds but loses 20% of full health
- Shields no longer regenerate
2.4
Game Design:
- Several UI improvements to cater towards beginners and others
Balance Changes:
- Amount of levels decreased from 130 to 60
- Health scaling modifiers revamped
- Air levels now get 15% less health
- The odds of a massive unit type has increased to 50% when unit counts are 8 or lower instead of having same odds as any unit type
- Broodling can now spawn in waves
- Archons and Brood Lord are now counted in the massive wave category
- Stimpack on waves health loss when using stimpack decreased from 20% to 15%
- Stalker waves now gain Blink ability
Blink:
- Whenever unit attacked and blink is off cooldown it blinks further ahead
- Blink cooldown is 6 and blink distance is up to 4
- Blink can dodge projectile weapons
- Waves with blink have 25% less total health
- Zergling - Leap cooldown decreased from 8 to 4
- Drone mineral cost changed from 30/150 to 45/120
3.0
Balance Changes:
- Health scaling on levels is no longer linear
- Start minerals increased from 50 to 55
- Forge vespene cost increased from 60 to 80
- Siege Tank - Crucio Shock Cannon damage reduced from 10 (vs Armored: 15) to 9 (vs Armored: 14)
- Siege Tank - Crucio Shock Cannon range decreased from 13 to 12
- All forge upgrade start costs increased from 100 to 150
3.1
Game Design:
- Aesthetics improved
- Terrain layout of Co-op completely remade
- Start positions for Co-op changed to be more convenient when playing less than 8 players
Game Balance:
- Difficulty is overall lowered slightly
3.2
Balance Changes:
- Engineering Bay cost reduced from 30 to 15
- All Engineering Bay upgrade costs reduced by roughly 15%
- Speed Upgrades now increase attack speed by 15% rather than 10%
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm can no longer attack Air units
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon cooldown decreased from 1.9 to 1.76
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm bounce range increased from 3 to 4
- Roach - Severe Corruption movement speed reduction increased from 40% to 50%
- Overlord - Evolve Clayman cost reduced from 250 to 175
- Overlord - Clayman speed movement speed reduction increased from 10% to 15%
Pylon - Extension Boost ability added.
- Extension Boost - Increases a towers weapon range by 3 for 30 seconds, costs 20 energy
- Overseer movement speed increased from 1.609 to 1.898
- Thor movement speed increased from 1.211 to 1.5
- Waves of 25 creeps now gives roughly 30 minerals rather than always 25
- Duration for Stimpack on creep waves increased from 10 to 14 seconds
3.3
Game Design:
- High Scores are now stored
Map Name: Desert Tower Defense [TD]
Map published to: EU and NA server
|
I'm sure it is as good as all the other custom maps you make Morrow. Going to try it tonight!
|
Looks awesome, i will give it a try !
|
morrow fix micro tournament : (((
|
Sweet. I love tower defense maps. I will definitely play this sometime today!!
|
bugs:
sometimes the canon doesn't detect. i have a screenshot if u don't believe me. 
the immortal shoots air
It's way too difficult. I didn't manage to past the 5 min mark.
|
On January 02 2013 07:34 OrbitalPlane wrote:bugs: sometimes the canon doesn't detect. i have a screenshot if u don't believe me. the immortal shoots air It's way too difficult. I didn't manage to past the 5 min mark.
the detection range is unfortunatly just like normal cannon even though the range is longer. i might look into this since it may be confusing
the immortals are supposed to hit air^^
about difficulty, well see how it becomes with time i might make it easier (hopefully not needed)
|
On January 02 2013 07:45 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 07:34 OrbitalPlane wrote:bugs: sometimes the canon doesn't detect. i have a screenshot if u don't believe me. the immortal shoots air It's way too difficult. I didn't manage to past the 5 min mark. the detection range is unfortunatly just like normal cannon even though the range is longer. i might look into this since it may be confusing the immortals are supposed to hit air^^ about difficulty, well see how it becomes with time i might make it easier (hopefully not needed)
what's normal canon range? In my case it was two squares (i could have build one tower between the canon and the path).
I really think you should add a noob difficulty right now. I could imagine a lot of ppl get discouraged if they don't reach the 6 minute mark after 10 games.
I just died to the 2nd wave (~50 overlords) haha. :D
If people get better you can still change the standard settings (to easy or smth else).
the time between two waves is too short
edit:
I am sure the canon doesn't detect at all. I had it directly at the path this time.
And i am not playing this again until the difficulty is adjusted. 
|
yeah my cannon doesnt detect observers (going to test turret)
you need to make the levels spawn specific units and plan it I feel :/ atm I just got slow ovies level 1 and fast phoenixes level 2 and they fly by my towers at the same time lol
|
Some random streaks are simply not beatable. Like if you get something like muta-muta-muta-thor-hellion-ling. What are you supposed to do?
Anyone got past lvl 30-40?
|
thanks for the feedback so far new patch is out, should ease it up a bit
Patch 1.11
Bugs:
- Photon cannons now properly detects cloaked units
Balance changes:
- The basic total life increment of waves decreased from 110 to 105
- Time between waves increased from 25 to 30
- Overlord movement speed increased from 0.77 to 1.1
- Engineering bay vespene cost reduced from 40 to 30
|
Consider adding the ability to blink your SCV, I just build towers all around mine and got mine stuck LOL.
|
it's easier but still too difficult. My new record is 13min lvl 25
I once tried to zoom out with my mouse scroll. It zoomed in instead and i wasn't able to get back to normal view.
It's nearly impossible to get back from a view leaks because you miss the bounty. I suggest you get the bounty awarded anyway or the units that went trough spawn again at the start.
|
got to level 36 on hard.
things just do not scale well enough. gas is not useful enough. not a lot of micro potential (maybe add heros/worker abilities?).
i like the concept. good variety amongst the current tower set. good ideas with the random spawns. good ideas with mob traits (psionic etc).
some things i would change:
slight round time increase (probably 5-15 seconds). your game will be ruined if you have to fight two waves at once. you will not be able to catch up. a slight increase will still punish bad tower choices but will be additional leeway.
across the board range increases. probably not needed on the cannon.
add dual damage towers (ie a bonus to mechanical and armored, or massive and light on one unit)
massive buff to the speed upgrade. increase %, lower mineral cost, anything. currently 25 minerals for 10% is not worth it. for instance, a level 4 upgraded cannon tower does 22.85 dps. a speed upgrade increases this by roughly 4 for 25 minerals. for 20 minerals, you could build two new cannons, which will do 5.7 dps. this would be ok if there were more damage force multipliers, like a pylon that gave a damage buff, so that it would give you the option of powerleveling less towers, take advantage of the damage buff so that it would make the speed increase worth the cost. just some food for thought.
gas:
increase its availability (start with more workers, can build more workers, closer assim, extra gas at round end etc)
add damage/range/speed upgrades using gas. maybe make it per tower type, so all +psionic towers get the bonuses. maybe add something that decreases the cost of towers. this would help the scaling issue as the game progresses.
maybe add spells to the worker, or give the worker some damage capability with gas upgrades.
maybe add an exchange so you can use your gas for extra minerals
lots of ways to play around with this. good map overall hope you continue your work on it.
|
I can beat up to 30 pretty consistently, but after that I die pretty soon. My record is about 34-35.
My tips:
Don't upgrade attack speed.
Try to kill spawns early to avoid fighting two at the same time.
Place towers so that they cover multiple lanes.
|
Yeah I'd really like to see more expansion/use for gas. At the moment it's pretty weird and I usually am dying right around the time I get my first useful thing from it lol.
Regen imba.
|
Can you confirm that the map is in fact possible to beat in its current iteration as a solo player?
I seem to get to level 35 with pretty much any tactic, but then i just lose.
for instance
4archons on spawn while they're slowed + immortal, stalker for massive units
80 photon cannons
80 marines
1 of each unit upgraded
all seem roughly equal. Am I missing something obvious, or is it just not meant to be beaten by solo players?
Oh, and regeneration seems op as fuck.
|
On January 02 2013 14:01 esla_sol wrote:
got to level 36 on hard.
things just do not scale well enough. gas is not useful enough. not a lot of micro potential (maybe add heros/worker abilities?).
i like the concept. good variety amongst the current tower set. good ideas with the random spawns. good ideas with mob traits (psionic etc).
some things i would change:
slight round time increase (probably 5-15 seconds). your game will be ruined if you have to fight two waves at once. you will not be able to catch up. a slight increase will still punish bad tower choices but will be additional leeway.
across the board range increases. probably not needed on the cannon.
add dual damage towers (ie a bonus to mechanical and armored, or massive and light on one unit)
massive buff to the speed upgrade. increase %, lower mineral cost, anything. currently 25 minerals for 10% is not worth it. for instance, a level 4 upgraded cannon tower does 22.85 dps. a speed upgrade increases this by roughly 4 for 25 minerals. for 20 minerals, you could build two new cannons, which will do 5.7 dps. this would be ok if there were more damage force multipliers, like a pylon that gave a damage buff, so that it would give you the option of powerleveling less towers, take advantage of the damage buff so that it would make the speed increase worth the cost. just some food for thought.
gas:
increase its availability (start with more workers, can build more workers, closer assim, extra gas at round end etc)
add damage/range/speed upgrades using gas. maybe make it per tower type, so all +psionic towers get the bonuses. maybe add something that decreases the cost of towers. this would help the scaling issue as the game progresses.
maybe add spells to the worker, or give the worker some damage capability with gas upgrades.
maybe add an exchange so you can use your gas for extra minerals
lots of ways to play around with this. good map overall hope you continue your work on it.
im glad your liking it
i just wanted to publish out the bare minimum for a good map, except i didnt work through the balance completely in terms of the scaling the wave hp vs the gas income.
so the only natural thing for me was to put gas costs at a fairly high rate (without loss of minerals ofcourse) just to see how far people actually manage to get.
i do have plans for making more gas buildings to build (units like the infestor and high templar etc) and also have ideas for more upgrades in the ebay to spend your gas on
like i wrote in the OP, gas income is the only big potential scaling thing the further the game goes so i was afraid the map would start out hard and get easier towards the mid-late game.
its pretty hard to find the absolute best balance how the gas income works to wave hp. if its too easy early on players can just spam probes and it becomes easy later too. if its too hard early on, players can never afford to fit in another probe to build which means they cant win later etc
i also feel the same way about the range of towers. the placement of which where towers can be placed effectively is lacking because of it. i do have plans on working on this
the amount of feedback ive gotten so far is more and faster than i expected and its alot of constructive things so i will (hopefully, no promises) work on a pretty big patch within the next days. making custom units/spells is really what takes the most time building this map
On January 02 2013 15:10 Complete wrote:
Yeah I'd really like to see more expansion/use for gas. At the moment it's pretty weird and I usually am dying right around the time I get my first useful thing from it lol.
Regen imba.
regen gives a 5% heal when its a wave with many units (15 or more) where as if its a wave with 1-8 units they just get a 2% heal.
in my experience from playing regen seems to be the strongest too )
|
awesome
|
Do you have any plans on working on the aesthetics? :D
|
is it me, or is the best part about TD games building your own maze? Morrow, any ambitions to add this at any time?
Thanks for making this by the way, will play it when i'm home from work. Love micro tournament too.
|
Any other suggestions people have?
|
Awesome! Gonna try it out
|
Fuck yes, so keen to check this out!
|
My record is 19 minutes (not sure what round that is). And then it just becomes impossible.
|
On January 02 2013 21:22 UnholyRai wrote:
is it me, or is the best part about TD games building your own maze? Morrow, any ambitions to add this at any time?
Thanks for making this by the way, will play it when i'm home from work. Love micro tournament too.
mazing is probably something i could add as another game mode (as well as playing it individual against each other to survive the longest) once this all is done
|
Morrow, do you have any tips?
I have the feeling that speedupgrade is generally not worth it.
And could there be an option to let the game go slower? So to have a little bit more time to think of your next move?
Also, it would be great to see further in advance what the next couple of waves will be.
|
Got to level 40 with a bit of luck. If you face overlords lvl 30+ you'll pretty much leak next wave as you will still be shooting at the overlords when the next wave comes, especially if it's a fast wave.
Updated tips:
- Don't upgrade attack speed. 25 for 10% damage increase is always worse than 80 for 100% damage.
- Place towers so that they cover multiple lanes, place them to maximize damage throughput during the first 30 seconds of the wave. Range 2-5 towers can only fire at the adjacent lane, range 6 can just about reach 3 lanes and range 12-13 can fire for most of the duration of the wave.
- Many towers are generally better than few towers if you can find good spots for them all because they are better vs shielded units, don't overkill and you aren't as vulnerable while you upgrade them.
- The best tower in terms of damage output per wave is the photon cannon due to its long range. It also is the most versatile as as it can detect, fire at both air and ground and has non specialized damage. A good starting build for new players is 10-20 photon cannons in the centre and then just upgrade them for the duration of the game.
- To get a templar is the best use of gas as far as I can tell. A psi-storm at the spawn location where units move slowly does a lot of damage.
- In the late stages wave 35+ you need to take a few chances to make it further as you can't consistently beat all possible unit types. For instance, skip air and focus on tanks for mass waves or immortals for bosses.
|
Okay, so i've played around 75 games on this map now.
We pretty much always die between 30-40.
80% of the time its a immortal(+shields) wave.
I think they are seriously too imba.
Most of the gas units/upgrades dont feel good aswell.
At 270 gas you get a HT, which spawns at 0 energy and needs 75 for a storm,
so you can only storm every 4 waves or so, which is not very good.
Same with other gas stuff aswell. They just seem too expensive.
Oh btw: it would be nice if you could display the speed upgrade level aswell and not only the dmg upgrade level.
Now its just 50% of the info.
|
Russian Federation5 Posts
I feel like there is no reason to build anything but cannons, is it true? I always got better result with cannons.
|
i plan to focus on adding some more advanced structures hopefully tomorrow. im glad you guys are trying out the map and i hope you can have fun even though its not done yet
Patch 1.12
Balance changes:
- Upgrade Speed mineral cost decreased from [25, 75, 225, 750, 2000] to [20, 60, 150, 400, 1000]
- Archon - Psionic Shockwave splash damage increased from [0.2, 0.4, 0.8] to [0.4, 0.6, 0.8]
- Zergling - Claws cooldown decreased from 0.625 to 0.58
- Roach - Acid Saliva range increased from 3 to 4
- Marine - C-14 Gauss Rifle range increased from 5 to 6
- Stalker - Particle Disrupters range increased from 6 to 7
- Hydralisk - Needle Spines range increased from 6 to 7
- Marauder - Punisher Grenades range increased from 6 to 7
- Immortal - Phase Disrupters range increased from 7 to 8
- Missile Turret - Longbolt Missile range increased from 8 to 9
- Medivac energy starting amount increased from 0 to 25
- Pylon energy starting amount increased from 0 to 25
- High Templar energy starting amount increased from 0 to 25
- Infestor energy starting amount decreased from 75 to 25
- Regeneration (Creep) life percentage decrement increased from 10% to 15%
|
Looks good.
Imho, the first upgrade should cost 8. Then it would be the same damage increase per mineral invested as the upgrade that costs 80.
|
Reminds me of GEM TD :D
If I have a chance I will check it out.
|
I would say: do something with the gas. Now it takes like *ages* before there is *some* use for it.
|
work work ) the air levels are predictable now and in a pattern (every 5 levels), also some of the fastest units are abit slower along with that they cant get haste. this should remove alot of the "randomness" to having a streak of waves that stack up too easily
Patch 1.3
Balance changes:
Added new advanced structure:
- Warp Prism, costs 50 gas: Passively buffs all nearby towers within 8 radius.
Warp Prism buffs: (must be upgraded)
- Range: +2 weapon range, costs 200 gas to upgrade
- Speed: +10% attack speed, costs 250 gas to upgrade.
- Damage: +1 base damage, costs 500 gas to upgrade.
- Marauder - Concussive Shatter upgrade splash radius reduced from 0.5 to 0.4
- Infestor cost decreased from 325 to 250
- Baneling now has the Light attribute
- Archon now has the Massive attribute
- Hellion movement speed decreased from 4.25 to 4
- Phoenix movement speed decreased from 4.25 to 4
- Air now comes every 5th level (first air at level 5) instead of having a 20% chance each level
- Phoenix, mutalisk and hellion waves are now unable to come with Haste
|
Belgium9945 Posts
Will try this later today.
Is it made to scale with playercount? Can I get by just fine with 2?
|
On January 03 2013 11:01 RaGe wrote:
Will try this later today.
Is it made to scale with playercount? Can I get by just fine with 2?
yep your completely fine. units only spawn from the lanes where players are in the game (1 player, 1 lane etc)
|
Got to level 37, don't think I'll be able to get any further
Edit: Btw, your SCV can attack shit doesn't really help in the mid game when it matters though
|
I played this td a lot. Some further feedback:
First of all the strength of this td imho are the towers and the spawning creeps. They are similar to sc2 which helps a lot for beginners. It's also very strategical. You have to decide where and what towers you build etc.
this is just my personal prefence but i think if you look at the popular maps right now it seems like most people will agree on that. Maps like squadron td, nexus wars, dessert strike, krash td or random td all have the same concept of players competing against each other. Even SC2 on it's own. Who would still play it if you could only play against the Ai?
I think the kind of map you did will become boring after some hours of play even if you fix all the balance stuff which will be far more difficult than most people would expect.
If you build this td into a ffa or 2 teams td and adjust a few things then a lot of the problems right now would balance out on its own.
One of the first things i would adjust would be the eco system. If you make the workers very cheap and cost minearls then the player can balance his amount of eco and the tower's strength.
|
You need to tweak the health of the waves, sometimes you are just fine killing everything then the next wave comes and you cant kill it, there is a lot of useless towers you need to remove like 70% of them, there is no point on the gas since everything is so expensive you cant use them (ie you want to upgrade marines to use stim pack then buy a medic to heal them, you will lose before you have the gas to buy both), also air waves, we need something to do splash damage AND have bonus vs air, the essence of TD, is to have towers that are good vs some kind of creep and bad vs others, generally the air only towers have a lot of damage vs air, and you shouldn't put extra modificator to a wave that more than half of your towers can't attack.
There is a lot more but that is what i think its the worst about this TD.
|
Seems very promising, but I also have difficulty reaching past the 36ish level.
On a completely unrelated topic, MorroW, do you have any plans on rebalancing the Micro Tournament you made? Its still a very popular map, Ive played it a lot. Some of the levels are just completely impossible for one of the players. Examples would be: 4stalker + 2 archons vs about 16 mutas. (never seen anyone lose with thr mutas) or 2 sealots vs 3 marines and an scv (never seen the zealots lose).
|
On January 03 2013 14:11 OrbitalPlane wrote:
this is just my personal prefence but i think if you look at the popular maps right now it seems like most people will agree on that. Maps like squadron td, nexus wars, dessert strike, krash td or random td all have the same concept of players competing against each other. Even SC2 on it's own. Who would still play it if you could only play against the Ai?
I think the kind of map you did will become boring after some hours of play even if you fix all the balance stuff which will be far more difficult than most people would expect.
If you build this td into a ffa or 2 teams td and adjust a few things then a lot of the problems right now would balance out on its own.
One of the first things i would adjust would be the eco system. If you make the workers very cheap and cost minearls then the player can balance his amount of eco and the tower's strength.
perhaps i will add the individual lane mode (where its ffa) and make it default
what i want to do with the cooperation option is to later down the road remove so units doesnt just spawn for amount of lanes that players are in. i want to force it to always spawn in every single mode so every single player is required unless your a hard core tower defenser and try to beat the co-op with only 4 players etc.
back in bw this is usually how td's were played once you beat them the first time, is by just playing with less and less amount of players and still try to beat it and thats what i wanna do with the co-op mode.
however the reason i didnt do that yet is because the map is still under alot of balance tweaking where units spawning in every lane would just not be something i can draw feedback from
On January 03 2013 19:21 Millet wrote:
Seems very promising, but I also have difficulty reaching past the 36ish level.
On a completely unrelated topic, MorroW, do you have any plans on rebalancing the Micro Tournament you made? Its still a very popular map, Ive played it a lot. Some of the levels are just completely impossible for one of the players. Examples would be: 4stalker + 2 archons vs about 16 mutas. (never seen anyone lose with thr mutas) or 2 sealots vs 3 marines and an scv (never seen the zealots lose).
the plans right now for that map is to wait until hots an make a huge swell of levels added into it, as well as some balance changes to the current one
|
|
|
another patch now, fixed so you can all play individual (had many requests about it)
Patch 1.14
Game Design:
Individual game mode added and set as default.
- Individual Mode: All players has their own lives and lane.
- Cooperation: All players share lives and units spawn from 8 lanes.
Balance Changes:
- Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon cooldown increased from 1.4 to 1.45
- Zergling movement speed decreased from 4 to 3.5
edit:
Patch 1.15
Bugs:
- Haste is now properly applied to waves.
Balance Changes:
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spew weapon cooldown decreased from 1.75 to 1.65
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spore weapon cooldown decreased from 1.75 to 1.65
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon range increased from 3 to 4
- Roach - Acid Saliva weapon range increased from 4 to 5
- Engineering Bay - Adrenal Glands gas cost decreased from 145 to 120
- Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto decreased from 100 to 75
- All unit move speeds have been avaraged to their respective plane (ground and air)
- Waves with Shields level requirement increased from 10 to 15
- The starting gas for each player increased from 30 to 130
|
Morrow, how can you defeat the gazillion immortals with shields? Any hints?
|
Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 19:21 Millet wrote:
Seems very promising, but I also have difficulty reaching past the 36ish level.
On a completely unrelated topic, MorroW, do you have any plans on rebalancing the Micro Tournament you made? Its still a very popular map, Ive played it a lot. Some of the levels are just completely impossible for one of the players. Examples would be: 4stalker + 2 archons vs about 16 mutas. (never seen anyone lose with thr mutas) or 2 sealots vs 3 marines and an scv (never seen the zealots lose). the plans right now for that map is to wait until hots an make a huge swell of levels added into it, as well as some balance changes to the current one
Thank you for answering. I'm looking forward to it very much Good luck with this TD!
|
Nice map! Any chance to make it so that it DOESN'T start in all 8 lanes when playing coop?
If I'm playing Coop with my friend then 8 lanes are impossible, and we still want to play together (as in, not individual mode).
They way it was before 1.14 was fine, maybe add that as a 3rd mode?
|
On January 05 2013 00:36 budde wrote:
Nice map! Any chance to make it so that it DOESN'T start in all 8 lanes when playing coop?
If I'm playing Coop with my friend then 8 lanes are impossible, and we still want to play together (as in, not individual mode).
They way it was before 1.14 was fine, maybe add that as a 3rd mode?
i might add a 2v2v2v2 option
|
i like the new ideas for the map. been playing individual mode.
the concept of the warp prism is a good one. makes you think about tower placement and what you want in the radius. my only suggestion besides obvious balance tweaks would be to have the prism be an air unit, so that the player has more perfect control over where they want it.
on the topic of air units, i was thinking it might be a good idea to make all the support towers movable.
i think its good that gas is sped up a bit. in the new version it feels like i can actually get enough to do things with it.
what do you think about adding units to the game? i was thinking that one of the major issues im coming across is some wave types are not just possible to beat, and trying to be well rounded usually is not the best idea. now lets say you had a unit with a special ability, you could use it strategically to overcome the waves that counter you, or you could use it as a means for saving up more mins for an upgrade, or maybe when gas is fixed, if you were good at using the unit you could go more into eco and save your gas units for later. just a thought.
overall i think the new version is a solid improvement. im going to play it a bit more then come back with some more ideas.
|
On January 05 2013 03:39 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 00:36 budde wrote:
Nice map! Any chance to make it so that it DOESN'T start in all 8 lanes when playing coop?
If I'm playing Coop with my friend then 8 lanes are impossible, and we still want to play together (as in, not individual mode).
They way it was before 1.14 was fine, maybe add that as a 3rd mode?
i might add a 2v2v2v2 option
Sweet! That would be awesome.
However, a "n vs Computer" option would be even better, so that you can play coop with 2-7 friends against the computer. Again, thank you for making the map and responding to suggestions.
|
On January 05 2013 04:34 budde wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 03:39 MorroW wrote:On January 05 2013 00:36 budde wrote:
Nice map! Any chance to make it so that it DOESN'T start in all 8 lanes when playing coop?
If I'm playing Coop with my friend then 8 lanes are impossible, and we still want to play together (as in, not individual mode).
They way it was before 1.14 was fine, maybe add that as a 3rd mode?
i might add a 2v2v2v2 option Sweet! That would be awesome. However, a "n vs Computer" option would be even better, so that you can play coop with 2-7 friends against the computer. Again, thank you for making the map and responding to suggestions.
i hope you enjoy the map!
working hard here because theres more people than i expected playing it and still trying to beat it ))
forgot to update this thread on the latest few patches
Patch 1.16
Balance Changes:
- Damage Level 6 cost reduced from 480 to 160
- Damage Level 6 damage bonus decreased from 400% to 100%
- Damage Level 7 cost reduced from 1920 to 320
- Damage Level 7 damage bonus decreased from 400% to 100%
- Speed upgrade costs reduced from [20, 50, 150, 400, 1000] to [5, 15, 45, 135, 405]
- Zergling - Claws weapon cooldown reduced from 0.58 to 0.54
- Roach - Acid Saliva weapon can now hit Air and Ground targets
- Engineering Bay - Evolve Acid Spore upgrade gas cost reduced from 150 to 125
- Engineering Bay - Research Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade gas cost reduced from 225 to 200
Patch 1.17
Balance Changes:
- Infestor - Fungal Growth energy cost decreased from 75 to 60
Engineering Bay - Evolve Grooved Spines upgrade added:
- Increases Hydralisk towers base damage by 1, costs 400 gas
Infestor - Infested Terran ability added:
- Spawn an Infested Terran. Infested Terrans last 20 seconds, costs 25 energy
- Amount of plasma shields given to wave units with Shields now set to 500 and spread amongst them rather than all gaining 50 shields
- The max amount of probes that can be build from the nexus increased from 3 to 4
Patch 1.18
Balance Changes:
- Marine - Stimpack attack and movement speed increased from 25% to 35%
- Medivac - Heal health increased per energy increased from 2 to 3
- Roach - Severe Corruption slowing effect increased from 35% to 40%
- Archon - Psionic Shockwave weapon cooldown decreased from 2.65 to 2.5
- Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon weapon cooldown decreased from 1.45 to 1.35
- Photon Cannon - Phase Cannon weapon damage decreased from 4 (vs Psionic: 5) to 3 (vs Psionic: 5)
Engineering Bay - Research Power Charge upgrade added:
- Increases Archon towers splash damage by 25%, costs 250 gas
Engineering Bay - Research Crystal Core upgrade added:
- Increases Immoral anti-massive damage by 7, costs 325 gas
Engineering Bay - Revamped Reloading upgrade added:
- Increases Siege Tanks attack speed by 20%, costs 275 gas
Engineering Bay - Impact Tail upgrade added:
- The third bounce of the Mutalisk tower deals 200% damage, costs 250 gas
|
Hey MorroW, cool map!
I really like the latest improvements. Still gets hectic after lvl 30, there's a bunch of things I will suggest below but overall it's getting to a much better point, it's possible to get a bunch of gas purchases now and use them, that makes it more and more exciting. I like. With good use of gas unit abilities it seems to be possible to survive for longer now and it might now indeed be possible to figure out ways of surviving longer so some of my complaints might end up being a bit invalid, heh.
Still, I've got tons of suggestions, as that's the nature of things when it comes to my personality :D It's also a nature of things of me to write huge walls of text, I hope you don't mind it too much, I promise to try to keep useless chatter to minimum ^^ My apologies.
I would also like to apologize if I repeat some of the suggestions posted in the thread before as I'm quite frankly too lazy to read it
First of all, realize: I played this map a lot in the past few days but I've played it only by myself on Easy. Not that big of a deal I think, but I thought I should mention that.
So yes, here's a list of bugs, suggestions, complaints and ideas I had so far:
- It is possible to get your SCV stuck if you place your units in a certain way.
I'll try to explain how I know for certain you can block it off. Imagine that this is a 4x4 plane on the map where I place M - marauder, R - roaches and T mutalisk. Since units are placed between the 4 blocks, I'll vizualize the map here in a specific way so you can see what's going on (x - actual map grid cells):
x-x-x-x
-M---R-
x-x-x-x
----T----
x-x-x-x
-R---R-
x-x-x-x
The SCV gets stuck once you place the mutalisk between the roaches and the marauder. I'd imagine that this can happen with other types of units I just didn't test.
- Regeneration is quite OP on later levels.
Particularly on air units, but also on massive units and waves with a big number of units. Creating a single killzone vs such waves is impossible as a lot of them will still get through. The flying units fly through even more easily. 5% or 15% is a bit much and should be reduced or their health should be lowered very considerably so that the splash damage can still be relatively effective.
You might want to do something like calculating their overall travel time through the maze and multiplying that by 5% and their health and you'll find their health probably being RIDICULOUSLY higher than the units' without the health debuff overall health, haha.
- The hellion effectiveness.
In the cooperative layout, I used the hellion between two roads so it would always shoot in a straight line and be extremely cost effective. That's not exactly possible anymore. I think there's still a spot or two like this, but due to a weird way of prioritizing targets it simply doesn't work without target firing and it's a bit too far down the path anyway.
I feel like hellions have become not useful enough because of this specific reason. But, changing the map layout back should not be the way to fix it of course - there was just that one OP spot to place the hellion, really, no reason to place hellions elsewhere - just upgrade the one in that spot. What should be done is probably just a straight up buff to the hellion. Besides, you'll see me complain a lot about the waves with big numbers of units, and hellions are probably the best way of dealing with those waves - tank don't seem to cut it especially vs such waves of immortals and the Archon is plain garbage ^^
I am a bit unsure about this point, though. This might be the issue of health scaling rather than hellion actually being bad.
- Different relative health units should not remove same amount of lives.
I feel like if you want to have waves which spawn big numbers of units, such waves going through should not remove nearly as many lives. Massive units should probably remove more than 1 life as well - atm massive units feel like something one might want to consider skipping dealing with later on - sometimes losing the money and a few lives is more preferable than overpreparing for everything. On the other hand, big number of units waves can lose you the game in just one failed wave, or take you down really low if a bunch goes through.
- Health scaling.
Waves with a big number of units become very strong later in the game due to how the health scales. Atm it's pretty much essential to get the concussive shatter upgrade for marauders if you want to survive them properly after lvl 25. And in fact, health scaling for massive units seems to be just as annoying - no matter how much DPS you have it just doesn't seem to be all too possible to destroy the massive units properly. However it is almost ok now, now that the gas units start coming more into effect, I'm not entirely sure that a huge nerf is required yet. But even with all the recent changes I still fail to progress further than levels 30-40.
- The upgrades in the engineering bay feel extremely underwhelming.
Due to their high cost, you expect to deny a certain type of units from going through almost completely because you bought an expensive upgrade focused on dealing with them. That simply does not happen. Or you might expect those few units that you have upgraded to suddenly be able to really pull you through a bunch of waves due to their increased DPS (marines) but the upgrades come so late and are so expensive that you barely feel the difference. Getting a pylon to speed up an upgraded unit which will deal with the type of wave that you want seems much much better. Spellcasters seem to be a much better choice than upgrades in general.
- The zergling
I never understood the reasoning behind the zergling. While its DPS is really good, the only situation I envision myself using it is after I already get the concussive shatter upgrade AND the infestor so you can really utilize the DPS of that single super upgraded zergling.
- Attack speed upgrade effectiveness.
Let's do some maths on DPS and attack speed. You're surely going in the right direction with it, but I just wanted to make you realize how it really works as it seems that you might not understand it completely. I'm sorry if I miss something about this, that's entirely possible, but a bit of discussion never hurts, right?
Let's say we have a unit with 3 initial DPS.
It's very obvious how DPS scales with damage upgrades, but what's more interesting is how the damage scales per mineral spent.
For damage upgrades, you spend 10 minerals for 3 DPS increase. 0.3 DPS increase per 1 mineral straight up.
For each speed upgrade you spend a certain amount of minerals to increase the overall dps by 10%. 5 for first upgrade, 15 for second, etc.
Here's a little table showing off how these upgrades affect this unit:
Unit damage level - Original unit DPS - Increase of DPS per attack speed upgrade - DPS increase per mineral on 1st upgrade - DPS increase per mineral on 2nd upgrade
1 - 3 - 0.3 - 0.06 - 0.02
2 - 6 - 0.6 - 0.12 - 0.04
3 - 12 - 1.2 - 0.24 - 0.08
4 - 24 - 2.4 - 0.48 - 0.16
5 - 48 - 4.8 - 0.96 - 0.32
You can see that the level at which the first attack speed upgrade becomes cost efficient, as it adds more DPS per 1 mineral than the damage upgrade, is only level 4. The level at which the 2nd upgrade becomes cost efficient is level 5.
Now, granted, the attack speed upgrade is useful for other things too - like faster refocusing after overkilling units. Some people pointed out, I think, that it's a good idea to build cheaper units just to not overkill units as much. I honestly believe, that really is not a big factor in this. It's much more important to place your units in proper spots. Another thing here is that the unit with higher attack speed ends up firing off more attacks than it normally would have in its attack range. This one is hard to predict, but I still tend to believe that it's not such a huge factor due to the fact that the waves tend to stretch out pretty long so the unit fires for a pretty long duration of the wave passing by without stopping. The beginning and ending of the wave are the important bits here and the difference is probably extremely tiny.
Overall, the efficiency of the upgrade is really questionable. But you've taken good steps. It's actually viable to get the first two upgrades in some situations now, but it's still not entirely intuitive and not entirely well designed.
- Cooperative layout not scaling to player count.
If a cooperative layout is chosen, it should probably work in a way it used to work - only lanes which have players spawned on them should be actively spawning waves. Dunno who'd really like to take this insane difficulty and multiply it by 8 xD
Here's also few more of more random type of suggestions you might want consider, to make the map even more interesting:
- Make upgrades scale logarithmically instead of linearly.
This means that you can even consider lowering upgrade cost per level, which might end up not being such a bad idea, considering how tough it becomes to survive later on. What this also does, is it makes the lower level units more effective, even if you place them in less effective spots where they don't completely maximize their damage. I found that currently there's really not that much reason for doing that. The problem, with this, of course, would be the fact that you'd have to rebalance the whole freaking level progression in the map, heh. But I wouldn't say it's close to being in perfect spot now, so yea.
- Add a few different levels to each of the upgrades in the engineering bay.
What this would do is allow players to stylize their play a bit more through committing to certain types of upgrades and placing units accordingly while allowing earlier upgrades and perhaps even more situational decisions. Like I've mentioned in my first list, the upgrades seem very underwhelming now too, this could help it. And I feel the first level of the upgrade could be much cheaper.
- If the map is played as single-player, add a command to restart the level rather than just abruptly making everything disappear with no follow up. Quite annoying to constantly rehost the game.
Also, please stream again, I miss it very much! Cheers and thanks for your hard work
EDIT: Just gave it a few more goes and a bunch of these things that I've mentioned are really working out better. I find myself dying mostly due to regenerating units and armored flying units. Pretty much required to get pylons and acid spores, I find
|
the biggest issue i have with this map is the spawn timer. i want more time to plan and think about what towers i need for the next wave. also, sometimes (especially level 30+) the next wave comes even though you're not done killing the last, casuing you to lose because of stacked waves.
also, the siege tank cannot fire at point blank range. i don't know if this is intended, but it is really annoying and makes the tower that much weaker.
other than that though i really like this map thanks MorroW !
|
thanks alot for your thoughts AGameAnx
im trying to think out ways to focus down "tech routes" more aswell. as it is right now theres pretty much 1~ upgrade per tower.
what im currently thinking off is that i might add upgrades with many levels to simply increase the damage output of the particular tower which your going with. in that way there is always a gas sink while all the gas uses right now are for very specific situations.
the reason i didnt do something like this yet is because i dont want the map to become a mindless spam upgrade tower defense where you have no decisions to make past the first 10 minutes of the game, so im afraid that might happen
the difficulty overall (how enemy hp scales each level) will get set easier within time. its good to keep it too hard initially to find out how far different tech routes can go and how strong they are etc if its not a faceroll throughout the game.
after so much testing ive started to learn how the income works with gas and minerals which will open up some opportunities to perhaps add features such as transferring gas into minerals - or the other way around
there are also plans to be able to sell towers rather than simply destroying them, so no more scvs trapped around level 1 towers
i will look into regeneration and i do believe it needs more of a rework than a simple nerf. units that are slow and has reg are literally impossible to kill (slower units gain alot higher health than otherwise making the reg/sec ridic)
still waiting for help in the blizzard editor forum to learn how to improve some of the UI which would help greatly in things such as sim city
in other words, theres still alot of things i wanna do with the map and im working very hard at improving it daily
|
played a bit of 1.1 tonight, and once again a solid improvement. the new upgrades are nice. one thing i noticed though is the siege tank upgrade changes its base attack speed from 6 to 5. this is might be intended, but it makes the value of upgrading speed on tanks themselves a bit weaker.
one thing to note is i feel like immortals are too valuable. every game i play i feel like i have to make them. im not sure if that means that the immortal is too good, or the massive rounds are too hard, or im just crazy.
i think hydras could use a rework. just like in the real game, they are similar to marines, but just worse. for anti light they really arent optimal either, since well placed hellions will do a better job. their gas upgrade is probably better than the marine's since getting stim requires you to spend gas on medivacs. although the extra base damage just puts them on par with marine damage, and it comes down to how you value extra to light, which for me is not much.
mutas have been my go to unit now with their upgrade, i think making them the best all purpose damage, especially with the photon nerf. my best games so far have been a hellion/muta/immortal combo.
i havent really played around much with the slow towers, roach and marauder. my thought process has mostly been i need damage to kill the wave before the next spawns, and slows dont really help. they might be better if i used tanks or archons more, but i think those two towers are kind of weak.
i havent made a single zergling either. this might be a mistake, especially with prism range being a pretty cheap upgrade. id imagine the unit would function like a hellion, such that it only works in a few places in the maze.
storm tower totally eclipses infestor tower. the % damage on storm is godlike. an idea i had would be to add a damage modifier for fungal, say fungaled units take an extra 50% damage, even after fungal ends. so storm deals damage and snares, but fungal makes your towers better and immobolizes. makes it a harder decision to choose between the two. it could also provide a synergy. fungal some stuff to keep the immobile, then storm for mass damage. could be fun.
|
For other players:
Has anyone had any decent success with using ground only/air only towers? Right now a stalker and an archon seems to me to be preferrable over a zergling and a spore colony for pretty much anything.
I feel like as a lot of you mention the game getting hard at levels 30-40, you are pretty much just playing it wrong. I'm pretty consistently getting to mid 50's, and I still feel my builds can use a lot of optimization. For those of you having issues with it, getting a well placed, range-prismed mutalisk is key to the strats I use.
For Morrow:
The first two speed upgrades are fine, but the third and onwards are pretty much pointless.
Same thing goes for the tower upgrades that cost 320. Waiting 11 levels to get an upgrade just to find out that you either just upped AOE when Immortal needed an upgrade or vice versa is pretty much a cointoss with death.
This could largely be prevented by showing the levels further ahead. If you for instance saw what you were going to face 5 levels ahead, it would be a lot easier to cope with.
It may just be me being paranoid, but I feel like some runs I dont get the expected 30 gold from every level. is this intended? Is it even happening? (might just be a tired mind struggling to find something to blame, too!)
You mentioned wanting to make gas economy a choice you had to make. pretty much letting the user try to squeeze in as many probes as possible without dying because of it. It's currently not a choice. You make five, then up. It's not exactly pointless, its fundamentally the same thing as the first minute of a ladder game, but It doesn't really add anything either. Maybe make levels 10-20 harder?
Oh, and thanks for making a great map. Something about it brings me back to the defenses of SC and Brood War, back before games were supposed to be easy. Something that has already had me glued to it for hours.
|
major update. added more depth to the economy management by being able to build drones now to harvest minerals. also theres a forge to build now to give those basic upgrades that can be upgraded over and over (up to level 100), they get more expensive each time upgraded though to prevent the mindless upgrade spam that most td's become (hopefully)
also regeneration should be fixed but theres a risk its not well see
oh and the feel of being forced to use immortal tower every game should be gone now since on low number waves it can be any unit type (rather than thor, colossus or ultralisk etc)
in coming patches i think ill just have to focus on spellcasters unless theres some major flaws about the forge or drone.
Patch 1.19
Balance Changes:
Mutalisk - Impact Tail modified:
Old: The third impact deals 200% damage.
New: Allows the Glave Wurm to bounce 1 more target.
- Waves with low numbers of units can now be any unit type, waves with high number of units still restrics certain unit types
Regeneration total health loss increased from 15% to 20%
Regeneration total health loss for single creep waves increased from 15% to 50%
- Drones can no longer be spawned as waves
- Queens can now be spawned as waves
- Queens have gained the Armored attribute
Patch 2.0
Balance Changes
Nexus can now build drones.
Drone: Basic worker unit, can gather minerals. Costs 30 minerals and 150 gas to build
- Maximum count for drones set to 3
- Probe cost increased from 0 minerals and 150 gas to 20 minerals and 150 gas
- Drone movement speed decreased from 2.813 to 2.398
- Probe movement speed decreased from 2.813 to 2.602
Advanced Structure added:
Forge: Contains generic upgrades for towers that target specific unit groups, costs 60 gas
Upgrades available in the forge (Upgrades the damage dealt):
- Impact Attacks: Zerglings, mutalisks and spore crawlers.
- Missile Attacks: Hydralisks and roaches.
- Disruptor Weapons: Stalkers and immortals.
- Infantry Weapons: Infantry units.
- Psionic Weapons: Archons and photon cannons.
- Vehicle Weapons: Vehicles and missile turrets.
|
Bugs i noticed:
- Some Queens dont get slowed by maraduer despite being NOT massive.
- Sometimes you dont get all minerals for the waves.
- Queens have 1 armor, despite no other having any armor.
|
version 2.0 thoughts:
bugs:
massive rounds are seeming nonexistent. i think i had one carrier round. havent gone past level 36 in the new version though.
thoughts:
i like the new economy. it makes the early game harder and you have to be more thoughtful.
i think the game overall is actually more difficult than previous versions with the inclusion of low number of armored/light units. thought from my games it appears massive low number units have all but vanished.
some gas upgrades could use a rework. im actually thinking an across the board decrease on gas cost for the special upgrades (like hydra damage). you have a lot of options to spend your gas now, and some of the special upgrades have really fallen behind. for instance, +1 hydra damage for 400 gas, or a warp prism to give everything +1 for an extra 100, or a few unit upgrades that will also help your roaches.
overlords/seers ruining basically every gave ive had now. lol. gonna try some builds using archons.
on that note, spore crawlers could use some love. i think starting them with anti armored would be a good idea, since you could use them to deal with those overlord spawns. making it a detector would be nice too, so then you would have the option to specialize in either single target or multi target detection.
i like how investing too much into eco right now can fuck you over. with the mineral cost you have to be careful right around the time you get that 3rd probe out, as waves start getting dangerous and you would be 60 mins down. my current strategy has been 2-1-2-1. i noticed that the 3rd drone is not as good as the previous two drones, which may or may not be intended, but its 30/150 value for me doesnt seem worth it until after ive dropped a bunch of gas on upgrades.
a lot more options and builds to use. one thing i think might make things simpler is to just make it so forge upgrades do all terran/zerg/protoss buildings, instead of the specified ones. especially with how fast they ramp up in cost, it lets you have a more even spread of towers but still be upgrading them.
|
Well your map is beatable now ^_^ i got to level 125 when my computer decided to minimize SC2 on me. Making me loose to a round of ghost right as it came back up again. I'm gonna beat your map then post after i beat it.
|
On January 06 2013 22:34 tehherzog wrote:
Well your map is beatable now ^_^ i got to level 125 when my computer decided to minimize SC2 on me. Making me loose to a round of ghost right as it came back up again. I'm gonna beat your map then post after i beat it.
wow really? whats your secret o.o
are the forge upgrades really that good? or is it the drone econ?
i thought 80+ would still be impossible after the patch. everyone died between 20-50 before patch
|
The map gets easier the longer you play (after the midgame) as towers get exponentially better the more you upgrade them with speed/damage synergy.
I beat the map with mutalisks into marines. A few upgrades mutas are a really good opening vs everything except single enemies, but you can afford to leak those single enemy waves as they still only count as 1 leak.
|
Nice patch! Although, I'm still sad that it is still not possible to play coop without having to defend 8 lanes at once. It's really quite impossible to go 2-3 players against 8 lanes. Is it hard to make it so that the number of lanes spawned is relative to the amount of players on the map when playing coop? 2 players defend 2 lanes, 4 players defend 4 lanes etc. Would really be an improvement imo, as I don't see a reason to force 8 players each time you play.
|
Hey there!
I saw your post in the Battlenet forums about showing range indicators when you select a unit and wrote a quick response. Basically the fact that you can't change the unit from the Siege Tank to another unit in the range actor's events (assuming you start by duplicating the siege tank range actor) is pretty much a glitch on the Editor's part. However, you can circumvent this by opening the actor in XML view and replacing the siege tank text with a new unit's text. Here's a tutorial from SC2Mapster:
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/22272-data-actor-range-indicators-the-best-way/
Also, is there any reason that the SCV/Probe has to have collision on? Sounds like it'd be real easy to remove collision entirely so the unit can move anywhere without the risk of getting stuck, or at least minimize travelling time in general.
Best of luck!
rut
|
On January 07 2013 04:31 Rut wrote:Hey there! I saw your post in the Battlenet forums about showing range indicators when you select a unit and wrote a quick response. Basically the fact that you can't change the unit from the Siege Tank to another unit in the range actor's events (assuming you start by duplicating the siege tank range actor) is pretty much a glitch on the Editor's part. However, you can circumvent this by opening the actor in XML view and replacing the siege tank text with a new unit's text. Here's a tutorial from SC2Mapster: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/22272-data-actor-range-indicators-the-best-way/Also, is there any reason that the SCV/Probe has to have collision on? Sounds like it'd be real easy to remove collision entirely so the unit can move anywhere without the risk of getting stuck, or at least minimize travelling time in general. Best of luck! rut
thanks a bunch, will look into it
|
Hey nice map
Have played it a lot.
I like the mineral cost on probes and drones, i didn't had to stop building workers but i had to make some drones instead of going just for probes early on.
I like the way the damage works too. I was going stalker archon, so i have bonus vs bio and vs mechanical and i don't have to make anti-air (had some troubles against archons, but one immortal did the job haha). Wanna try siege tank + hellion + missile turret too, seems nice as they all share same upgrades!
Just won first time, but i had to cheese my way to win building 20 high templars.... Don't think i would be able to win putting all gas in upgrades, maybe templars could cost more gas after the first one or be limited to one or two.
Good job!
|
On January 07 2013 10:42 dmaun wrote:
Hey nice map
Have played it a lot.
I like the mineral cost on probes and drones, i didn't had to stop building workers but i had to make some drones instead of going just for probes early on.
I like the way the damage works too. I was going stalker archon, so i have bonus vs bio and vs mechanical and i don't have to make anti-air (had some troubles against archons, but one immortal did the job haha). Wanna try siege tank + hellion + missile turret too, seems nice as they all share same upgrades!
Just won first time, but i had to cheese my way to win building 20 high templars.... Don't think i would be able to win putting all gas in upgrades, maybe templars could cost more gas after the first one or be limited to one or two.
Good job!
thanks
yes im currently thinking about bringing storm to a set amount of damage now when theres scaling within minerals and vespene and not just vespene
the design flaw with storm right now is that whenever you build a high templar, the damage output fits somewhat right with its cost, however the longer the game goes the damage increases while the investment required does not.
what i thought would prevent people from spamming high templars is that too high investement in them would create hiccups in peoples defenses (since storm costs alot) and you wouldnt be able to storm each round, but i guess thats not the case
for people wondering, i did not yet cross level 100 myself. im always trying new combos and ways to play figure out if everything is balanced out correctly and if i feel use for every tower.
right now im just slightly worried the spore crawler doesnt fill its role as cost-efficiently as i would want it to be along with the zergling.
and lastly i have plans on adding special upgrade for the stalker and cannon too so they become as cost-efficient as other towers in late game
there are more plans than this ofcourse but i thought some of you may be interested whats coming
here are the latest changes i forgot to list here (made yesterday+today)
Patch 2.1
Balance Changes:
- Immortal - Phase Disrupters damage vs non-massive increased from 3 to 4
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spew and Acid Spore cooldown decreased from 1.65 to 1.6
- Siege Tank - Crucio Shock Cannon minimum range decreased from 4 to 2
- All forge upgrades gas cost increament per level increased from 100 to 125
- Medivac gas cost decreased from 100 to 80
Zergling Leap ability added.
- Leap: Leaps the zergling to target location, a has 8 second cooldown
Overlord special structure added, costs 400 gas
- Overlord: Passively buffs all zerg units, has Generate Creep
- Generate Creep: Zerg units on creep move and attack 20% faster.
- Clayman: Terran and Protoss units move 10% slower on the creep, costs 250 gas
Forge - Psionic Weapons now also gives +300 damage to Feedback ability
Forge - Missile Attacks now also gives +8 damage to Infested Terrans
Patch 2.2
Balance Changes:
- Zergling - Claws weapon range increased from 2 to 2.5
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon cooldown increased from 1.8 to 1.9
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spew anti-light damage increased from 5 to 6
- Spore Crawler - Acid Spore anti-armored damage increased from 5 to 6
- Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto Tracking range increment increased from 1 to 2
- Engineering Bay - Hi-Sec Auto Tracking cost increased from 75 to 150
- Engineering Bay - Evolve Adrenal Glands attack speed increment increased from 20% to 25%
- Engineering Bay - Evolve Adrenal Glands cost increased from 120 to 250
- Engineering Bay - Research Infernal Pre-Igniter cost increased from 200 to 250
- Engineering Bay - Research Crystal Core cost decreased from 325 to 275
Patch 2.3
Game Design:
- Tower range display now shows for all towers when placing them rather than just a few towers
Balance Changes:
- High Templar - Psionic Storm damage changed from up to 80% full health to up to 1600 damage
- Leap, Fungal Growth, Infested Terran, Psionic Storm and Feedback range increased to 12
- Forge - Psionic Weapons now adds 240 damage to Psionic Storm
Engineering bay upgrade added.
- Research Disruption Coolers: Increases Stalker attack speed by 25%, costs 350 gas
Engineering bay upgrade added.
- Research Photon Load: Increases Photon Cannon anti-psionic damage by 1, costs 275 gas
Marine and Marauder waves now gain Stimpacks
- Stimpack is used whenever the unit is attacked and doesnt have the stimpack buff
- Stimpack buff: Increases movement speed by 50% for 10 seconds but loses 20% of full health
- Shields no longer regenerate
|
Any plan on making it so that the number of lanes spawned is consistent with the number of players playing? Like it was in the early versions...
|
On January 02 2013 20:08 Semmo wrote:
Do you have any plans on working on the aesthetics? :D
hmm? :D i wanted to give it a broodwar look with the grid and no doodads!
|
First of all thank you MorroW for such a great map!
I played it I think about 100 to 200 times in during the last week ^^
I get quite every game to lvl 70-80 (90 max :D ) - the main problem are the regeneration waves. I tried several compositions even with numbers of fungle + storms (about 10 !!!) - sometime I couldnt even kill one unit.
It is mainly one wave that kills you at once ... In most cases air regeneration.
If you would like to get more detailed feedback or if you have something new to test - feel free to add me: AoWZeNo.976
|
I feel that there should be a single target air anti armored tower (maybe a thor)?. Or make the marauder hit air too.
|
I would be interested what's your highest lvl u ever reached? an with what stategy (just a few points)
Mine is lvl 90
Strategy: few tanks in middle with high upgrades(no gas) + few spores with high upgrades(no gas) + splash marauder slow + roaches everywhere
|
new patch is out, alot of UI improvements
the health scaling was glitched previously is fixed now. but the numbers have been changed in result of that. the max level is changed to 60. the map might have become too easy or too hard now, its impossible for me to predict without testing it a bunch
Patch 2.4
Game Design:
- Several UI improvements to cater towards beginners and others
Balance Changes:
- Amount of levels decreased from 130 to 60
- Health scaling modifiers revamped
- Air levels now get 15% less health
- The odds of a massive unit type has increased to 50% when unit counts are 8 or lower instead of having same odds as any unit type
- Broodling can now spawn in waves
- Archons and Brood Lord are now counted in the massive wave category
- Stimpack on waves health loss when using stimpack decreased from 20% to 15%
- Stalker waves now gain Blink ability
Blink:
- Whenever unit attacked and blink is off cooldown it blinks further ahead
- Blink cooldown is 6 and blink distance is up to 4
- Blink can dodge projectile weapons
- Waves with blink have 25% less total health
- Zergling - Leap cooldown decreased from 8 to 4
- Drone mineral cost changed from 30/150 to 45/120
|
Belgium9945 Posts
On January 03 2013 11:04 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 11:01 RaGe wrote:
Will try this later today.
Is it made to scale with playercount? Can I get by just fine with 2? yep your completely fine. units only spawn from the lanes where players are in the game (1 player, 1 lane etc)
I tried it today on on coop mode and it spawned from all lanes.. 
|
I reached lvl 78 just yesterday, pretty sure all of the new changes are only making things even easier ^^ Reaching lvl 60 is tough but definitely doable. For some reason with my build orders I have the most trouble around levels 40-50 (just because I really rush out all the probes). The way health scales makes my build become less effective with time, then spike in effectiveness to get through lvl 60-70 and then it just becomes overwhelming again.
For those who want to start sharing strategy perhaps, here's approximately what is in my mind a pretty optimal build that I was using (not necessarily in this order ofc):
- 1 hellion:
- very high upgrades, pretty much upgrading as fast as humanly possible because this helps dealing with mass units waves the best.
- Infernal preigniter upgrade is too expensive and not useful enough. Light unit waves usually come in clumps so siege tanks really help deal with those anyway.
- Just have one position where AI automatically chooses to fire in a direction where the units line up perfectly while still shooting around the hellion as well to dish out that little extra damage
- Don't need to upgrade the speed much because the splash tends to hit most of the wave one way or another even on fastest waves
- 4 siege tanks:
- Medium upgrades with very late speed upgrades
- Optimal positions are in the middle of the map.
- 4 turrets:
- Getting them really well upgraded later on because they have great dps and the health of the air waves can be was indeed tough to deal with (good changes on that part).
- There are 4 really good positions which allow you to cover almost the whole map in detection while letting the turrets fire for very good portions of the map, even focusing the regenerating units on a certain point. This still doesn't solve the mass regeneration air waves though or really high health unit regeneration health because nothing does though. Maybe it's better after the last patch ^^
- 1 spore crawler:
- Placed closer to the beginning of the map
- Very high upgrades
- 1 archon:
- Getting the archon much later. Useful for even more additional splash damage and usually getting it once a lot of the slow is already set up on the map.
- High upgrades pretty fast.
- 1 stalker, 1 hydralisk:
- Medium upgrades
- Place closer to the end of the map, where the last turns are
- Get relatively early
- Helps finish off waves
- Helps dish out extra damage in the killzone in the middle
- 1 Immortal:
- Sometimes get it to make sure the massive units are finished off, to make sure to get the extra money or when the game feels to be progressing just fine
- 2-3 roaches:
- Place relatively far away from each other. They have great fire rate and corrupt for long periods of time. Their AI also always tends to fire at the first moving target so you will never slow down enough units even if you place very many roaches nearby
- No upgrades
- 3-6 marauders:
- Can make even more after the concussive shatter upgrade is purchased to maximize siege tank damage
- No upgrades
- Gas tech tree. I change this a lot every time, really, so take it with a grain of salt:
- Get all the workers first (you need a very solid tower build order for this to be possible. Do NOT miss early waves for this):
- Get up to 3 probes, or 4 if you're risky
- Get a drone or two
- Get the rest of the probes
- Get the rest of the drones
- Get the vehicle weapons upgrade level 1 and 2 (the units should be pretty high level now)
- Either start working on some of the engineering bay upgrades, or get a warp prism right away and upgrade speed on units (25% additional DPS is really reaaaally nice)
- Get concussive shatter from engineering bay
- Get the tank speed upgrade at this point from the engineering bay
- Get at least one High Templar because things WILL start to get messy now
- Attempt to get the damage upgrade on the warp prism. That upgrade is the best upgrade in the game, imho.
- I suggest getting up to 4-6 High Templar before you start upgrading High Templar damage. It's pretty unlikely you'll survive until this point, however %)
- ???
- Profit
With a combination of some of the supporting units that I've named, a well placed hellion, 4 siege tanks and 4 missile turrets in perfect spots, this is probably by far the optimal build considering that the main damage dealers all share a common upgrade.
All just my opinions and might be invalid after I dig into the new patch or just because I am yet to discover proper use of other different compositions.
Some suggestions:
- The siege tanks yield by far the best results in this TD. Their ability to dish out spikes of damage and them covering pretty much 80% of the map when placed in proper positions as well as their splash damage just crap on any other general purpose unit ability. I never understood why decreasing their min range was necessary. Now that the regeneration has been altered to be more balanced, you might want to increase tank min range slightly again to not allowed pretty much extremely tightly placed tanks only stop firing for a few seconds, which is probably just gonna be their reload time anyway.
- Slightly increasing hellion attack line width would be pretty amazing. Atm if a hellion misfires by a really small angle, it only seems to hit 1 unit.
- Some of the range indicators are still quite ambiguous due to the nature of pathfinding and UI indicators in this game. For example placing an Archon close to the middle will display that it will cover two squares of the top road correctly and one square towards the bottom right of it too. The problem is that it actually doesn't do it 100% reliably. It seems to let some units pass through that bottom square, and sometimes it still attacks.
Here are some more thoughts on different things:
I feel like different playstyles are still punished, not nurtured. The forge doesn't do it for me. Believe me, I tried quite a bunch of theoretically even abusive things which should have the potential to counter almost any unit composition. Does not work nearly as well as the siege tank build. It seemed worse by a really significant margin so I don't think it's just a me not knowing how to properly use them.
Missile turret DPS is probably going to destroy air waves now. Need to test, but I felt like missile turrets did their job pretty well already. It was the regeneration air waves that really sucked because they still spawn loads of units and it's really not worth accounting for those one or two types of regeneration air waves that might happen. Those might kill you even if you try to deal with them anyway. Probably that's fixed now and I am actually ok with you allowing more use of minerals to be diverted to ground turrets though.
After my previous rant about speed upgrades and playing a bunch more, I gotta say I am starting to like how the speed upgrades work. Still, it feels slightly underwhelming. The thing is, I've always felt that the upgrade is there to make sure that you're spending your minerals on damage upgrades more and more efficiently as you get more of these upgrades. I didn't think the speed would be used to make the DPS higher because on the long run that wouldn't help. One really needs to find ways to be more and more efficient over time due to how health scales. But like I've mentioned previously this is a bit tough when it comes to 320 upgrades so it only comes into effect for one or two upgrades for me now if I follow this logic. I feel like rushing attack upgrades is generally better otherwise.
Some of the upgrade design could really be iterated on in general, like I pointed out before. Getting 320 minerals is almost impossible due to how hectic the levels become but there's not that many solutions to it other than spending gas properly. I'm not sure that is enough with how the current upgrades and gas units work. Really not sure what the solution could be, but perhaps I need to become more creative with this. This still leaves the forge a problem where you probably won't want to get more than two upgrades in it, unless you decide you feel like spamming High Templar. I guess ending the game early is an ok solution but I liked it more as an endless race until you die.
But yea, this is just a small map and I'm probably thinking too much about it anyway, and rambling now. The map has given me a ton of fun as it is
This map is grand work Morrow. I don't know what draws me in so much. Well, it's obviously the difficulty of it but also the subtlety of choice which makes the difference in results. Really cool and awesome work and I'm so glad to see you're still putting heaps of work into it. Big props
|
Way too easy now. beat it on my 2nd attempt after losing ~100times earlier
|
Too easy. First Attempt. 20 lives ^^
Some points:
- I had only 1 massive wave at all (Ultras)
- air waves too easy (mainly the regenerating was imba before)
- with 60 lvl u dont get a really tektree - at least with gas
- most upgrades are way too expensive ... for example hydra upgrade
- most gas units than templar and infestor are too expensive.... overlord is just a bit (but the upgrade of it is useless). Warpprism upgrades too expensive too
- Warp prism + overloard should be air units and moveable on the map (with out loosing their upgrades. On the other hand u could have waves much more difficult!
- tank build too strong compared too other units because most units are armored and clumped at the spawn
|
ok took some time to think about how the health scaling should work, because there are so many upgrades that add to each other (between tower dmg level, speed and forge, warp prism etc) it was bound to get too easy the longer the game goes. thats why i made it not linear anymore.
the health system is ideal now its all about finding the right numbers for things. after your feedback i went on to test out alot with the siege tank and did some testing and i agree it needed a nerf
3.0
Balance Changes:
- Health scaling on levels is no longer linear
- Start minerals increased from 50 to 55
- Forge vespene cost increased from 60 to 80
- Siege Tank - Crucio Shock Cannon damage reduced from 10 (vs Armored: 15) to 9 (vs Armored: 14)
- Siege Tank - Crucio Shock Cannon range decreased from 13 to 12
- All forge upgrade start costs increased from 100 to 150
|
MorroW, don't forget to fix co-op play. You can either play individually (that works) or co-op (with every lane producing units). Fix please!
Me and a friend would like to play co-op, but with just the two of us, every lane has units :/
|
I am liking the 3.1 patch so far.
A bunch of things still need addressing in my opinion, though. All opinions, as always, I still like the map and it's fun trying to figure stuff out to avoid the troubles I'd be having.
But here we go:
- I am still of belief that speed upgrades are very underwhelming at the moment - might as well just get a 2nd unit if you don't want to overkill, and the fact that the first upgrade only becomes useful on level 4 is not good at all, in my opinion. Moreover, most splash damage units have really slow firing rate so getting the upgrade is barely noticeable.
- After the siege tank nerf, mass queen waves are REALLY strong. Might want to consider nerfing them.
- Regeneration mass overseer waves are guaranteed to go through at the moment, they need a nerf.
- I could never understand the nerf to the forge, I never get it anymore. It's pretty useful as a late game tool, but that would probably be waves 50+ only, and that means it's only for 10 waves in the current version of the map. I'd suggest a redesign to make the upgrades less noticeable early on but cheaper to get. In case of upgrades, this is something which is ok if it's not super effective and feels strong right after you buy it. So I think it would be best if the upgrades were cheaper, even if their effects weren't as pronounced as they are now, but easier to get. And even more to the point, even now, in my experience, getting upgrades still doesn't result in me noticing what they do even though technically they buff the stats quite considerably.
- I find that making any sort of new builds is still non-beneficial or possible. Having a certain mix of units (not much different from a build order I described before) is the best thing to do and you can only slightly deviate from it rather than having a whole bunch of options to choose from which you would expect to be the case.
Cheers and thanks for giving me hours of fun through something as simple as this mr MorroW
|
just for those wondering if its possible to beat the map, just played it a couple of times now and i beat it
the game time of 30 minutes feels just right. however some upgrades are too hard to make out in time and most of times its just about spending the gas and minerals asap rather than it being worthwhile to save up money for certain things.
went for marine marauder hellion turret but i never felt it was worthwhile to get the stimpack out for example even though the stimpack is awesome once its out - the risk of saving up that kind of gas is slightly too high
will probably make a patch today, i want to address being able to play in teams of 2, encouraging ebay upgrades abit more. and finally making the speed upgrades slightly cheaper.
also there are still some units that are too nasty, like the thor and overseers being too slow (aka too much hp)
edit: new patch
Patch 3.2
Balance Changes:
- Engineering Bay cost reduced from 30 to 15
- All Engineering Bay upgrade costs reduced by roughly 15%
- Speed Upgrades now increase attack speed by 15% rather than 10%
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm can no longer attack Air units
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm weapon cooldown decreased from 1.9 to 1.76
- Mutalisk - Glave Wurm bounce range increased from 3 to 4
- Roach - Severe Corruption movement speed reduction increased from 40% to 50%
- Overlord - Evolve Clayman cost reduced from 250 to 175
- Overlord - Clayman speed movement speed reduction increased from 10% to 15%
Pylon - Extension Boost ability added.
- Extension Boost - Increases a towers weapon range by 3 for 30 seconds, costs 20 energy
- Overseer movement speed increased from 1.609 to 1.898
- Thor movement speed increased from 1.211 to 1.5
- Waves of 25 creeps now gives roughly 30 minerals rather than always 25
- Duration for Stimpack on creep waves increased from 10 to 14 seconds
Patch 3.3
Game Design:
- High Scores are now stored
|
Hm I guess I just suck and in fact my strategy is not good at all :D That's actually exciting to know, gonna play some more soon
It's interesting that you mention those things about spending resources asap. I do believe this relates a lot to my earlier point about speed upgrades making upgrading more beneficial as the time goes on. Please consider this - if speed upgrades were more valuable/more effective, then upgrading units to high levels would actually have a very good benefit. All upgrades also become more valuable through this. I am offering this idea but to be honest I'm not 100% sure if it would make the game unbalanced or not though. Surely you have more experience than me with this, so all I ask is that you consider it well and if you believe it's not required, then it's ok
|
Morrow please fix the cooperative map. It spawns all 8 lanes for even 1 or 2 players now. It's just not interesting that way, you should spawn the player in a circular order and spawn only as many lanes as there are players
|
great map, beat it today using a mix of stalker &archon. archons not being slowed by marauders is a bit stupid
|
I beat the game three times in a row with 20/20 lives left.
3 archons at the start + 3 photon-cannons (+1 marauder and a roach or two for 1-5 waves). You could build some stalkers for mechanical enemies, but that's not really needed.
|
Mutalisk can still hit air...
Nevermind!
|
Feedback:
Too easy. Before you could see how far you could get and try to beat your own record. But when you've found a way to beat the waves consistently, there is no incentive to play anymore. There should be a marathon mode or a way to compete with other players, like sends or something.
Also, archons are too good at the spawn point since they can shoot at the clumped up slowed enemies.
|
Yes, I agree with VoirDire, I don't know why it was necessary to cap it to 60 when it was possible to beat 120 for some people (even if it was cheese which got fixed, I'm sure nobody did everything perfectly)
|
everyone seems to have a easy tiem beating this, my bes was lvl 34 so far lol.... at some point there are just to much creeps on the lane... any hints for me pls ?? :D
|
I beat it now on "easy", "normal" and "hard" :D - If u wanna get replay - call me
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/826/82548205.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9768/basictower.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1632/advancedstructure.jpg)
