EPT@Ninja
Base seems really exposed, from almost every angle. 3rd also seems pretty open, especially without an alternative.
Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 150
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin | ||
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SwedenTheKid
567 Posts
@Ninja Base seems really exposed, from almost every angle. 3rd also seems pretty open, especially without an alternative. | ||
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Badmi
5 Posts
This is a map I am working on for the TL map contest. The goal is to create a map with a number of key watch towers to fight over. My hope is this would lead to macro games with a number of micro-battles over those key points instead of deathballs. Name: Spires Size: 188x180 (playable) 208x208 (full) Description: This map also has a twist on the in-base natural. The natural is protected by the main choke point of the base. However, their is a large area that is also protected. This gives attacking armies the ability to maneuver to either the main base or the natural if the choke ramp falls. The main base is the highest ground on the corners with two ramps. The natural is on the lower ground off of one of those ramps, and the main choke is off of the other ramp. All the bases can be partially observed by one or more watchtowers who are accessible without breaching the bases defenses. Thus, if you have a base, but not its watch tower, your opponent can see what you are doing in it. Rush distances (main to main) are between 75s for close and 105.8 for cross. This is my first map I am making, would would love any (constructive) feedback that can be provided. Image: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NJrfZJxl.jpg) | ||
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JaredStarr
Canada115 Posts
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NinjaDuckBob
175 Posts
On January 28 2015 16:15 SwedenTheKid wrote:@Ninja Base seems really exposed, from almost every angle. 3rd also seems pretty open, especially without an alternative. Main base you mean? Referring to Blink potential? And by 3rd base I assume you mean the one in front of the main base. I meant for the one that I guess would be the 4th base (the one connected to the secondary Natural exit) to be an alternative. Would it be better to make the base in front of the main less open or make the 4th base closer as an alternative? Or both? | ||
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JaredStarr
Canada115 Posts
- If you spawn 2/8, having a unit at the XNT will give you more awareness of incoming drops (seeing the base stretches so wide that seems helpful). There is also a small choke to the free Natural for reaper harass, that gives vision of incoming reapers too. - If you spawn 10/4; expanding to the 1 or 7 Oclock base puts you at a defensive disadvantage being at the bottom of ramps, the tower allows you to see up the ramps. It puts lots of significance on the XNT for defending that base and opens up possible tactics when attacking. **You can see one hex of the vertical bases geyser. Doesn't seem problematic but moving the XNT away a couple hexes is an easy option. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/7829db58c1de33ac9bd25a9dffbf8547.jpg) Finally got working mapanalyzer program (thx to meatpudding) ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/450627e6dee6970f5a4107d359acc306.png) @Badmi: I'll start off by saying I like bigger maps and I find you map too big. You have lots of wasted space though so downsizing the map won't be hard to do. I'll be honest with you, you have so much wasted space I don't even know where to suggest to start closing space up. Maybe all that free space behind the Main, but that brings me to the second point - your free 'base space' is way too big as well, drops can come in from so many directions walling at the ramp provided puts your units too far out of position. Thirdly, your defending ramp should be close to your main, unless a fast expo is an option (then defending from your Natural should be fairly easy - keeping in mind proxy/cliff walkers). Speaking of main safety, 2 viable attack routes into the main is a pretty broken feature. It looks like the center of the map is too choked up, areas where big engagements will be happening should be pretty open, sparing chokes are good for Terran and Protoss to have places to retreat to keeping in mind Zerg thrives in open areas. I know it's a lot to digest, I'd say start with downsizing/removing wasted space and hopefully that will fix how spaced out your bases are (which is another issue) then tackle another. You appear to be at the early stages of learning the strings of melee map making, you'll get lots of advice if you stick to it (and I hope you do) and some may come off as abrasive but appreciate they put the time into saying something. Welcome to TL! | ||
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RedRookLord
United States6 Posts
A little ugly at the moment, when it comes to aesthetics, but the overall concept was to limit the map a bit in the beginning and make it fairly easy to defend, but as more of the debris around the map is destroyed, the map becomes more open and allows for more aggression. All critical feedback is accepted. | ||
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TheSkunk
82 Posts
Any feedback on both the layout and the visuals is greatly appreciated. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hlsfdg5.jpg) More Images: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AUUg6GB.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KNDL5Zj.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ewyPzKn.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QrKFXlr.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zHXv1xV.jpg) @RedRookLord: Not a fan of the use of rocks in this map, especially the in-base third. I think Zergs are going to hate it as its harder for them to clear rocks than the other races and its more necessary for them to take an early third. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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TheSkunk
82 Posts
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Xenotolerance
United States464 Posts
also ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XuAWtVm.png) some doodads out of place because this is a backup file, saved automatically at some random point. turns out the editor has a robust auto-backup feature! switching that to save every five minutes now lol. had a sad attack over what seemed like ~5 hours lost work. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S9tE5Pn.jpg) <3 | ||
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JaredStarr
Canada115 Posts
 @TheSkunk: I would suggest making the XNT able to see 2 - 4 hexes into the main, a small enough amount the you can block it with a pylon/depot/spine. It will give the defending player a small break to react to the attack as the attacker will have to destroy the building before blinking up and gaining full vision. If you want to make it so you can see into the base as only a scouting tactic i would suggest connecting the canyon between the Natural and clockwise third, throw a tower down at the edge of the base (where the mineral line is). Keep in mind the space so you can't blink across and consider for tank harass. + Show Spoiler [Example] + ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/7d24c803374334cf78430230fbd11071.jpg) | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
@Skunk : Now I'm not a fan of the high-high-ground forward third. Makes it very difficult to attack into with two ground level above the center of the map. | ||
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Badmi
5 Posts
Size: 179x148 (playable) Thank you for your feedback, JaredStarr. I have updated my map, taking into account the suggestions by JaredStarr. The map is now a bit smaller, has more open room in the center, and has a more typical main base and natural. However, it keeps its goal of having critical watch towers. A player that is able to control the watch towers can have a full understanding of his/her opponents. Any feedback would be welcome. Image: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4jMT9hz.jpg) | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
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TheSkunk
82 Posts
@TheSkunk: I would suggest making the XNT able to see 2 - 4 hexes into the main, a small enough amount the you can block it with a pylon/depot/spine. Thanks, I think I'll do that before I get rid of it entirely like Xenotolerance suggests. @Skunk : Now I'm not a fan of the high-high-ground forward third. Makes it very difficult to attack into with two ground level above the center of the map. Yeah, I was trying to make it so both thirds were an equally appealing choice and during play-testing the other base was a greatly more preferable choice. However, even without the extra high ground, you were still defending from the high-ground towards the middle of the map, so I didn't think making it high ground facing towards the nat would be that much of an increase from before. @TheSkunk: what's the nat-nat distance? seems quite short. also there's nothing wrong with the high ground 3rds, unlike what otherworld said they're quite open and easy to attack, and high ground isn't a true advantage other than vision. 39.7 seconds by ground. Its supposed to be a map that somewhat favors aggression due to distance and nat setup, but the use of the watch tower helps you defend it. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vjAUwlJ.png) | ||
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[AULFL]Khala
12 Posts
Size: 148x164 My first map ever. Working on it since yesterday. I want to get feedback mostly on layout. I didn't work on texturing & aesthetics that much. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KJibnKc.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hlQzu6q.png) | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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[AULFL]Khala
12 Posts
On January 29 2015 23:26 The_Templar wrote: [AULFL]Khala, I can't tell where the main bases are. That's probably not a good thing. I added analyzed photo. Now you can tell  | ||
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RedRookLord
United States6 Posts
Edit: Oh, and one other thing, several of those ramps are vertical or horizontal. See about making as many of them diagonal as you can, especially the one in your main base. Otherwise, it'll be a pain to try to defend them against early aggression. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
Ok there are quite a lot of things here : -Most of your ramps are cardinal ramps. If you look at ladder maps most if not all ramps are usually non-cardinal, because cardinal ramps are hard to see and hard to wall off. -8 bases per player is way too much imo. At most you want 7, usually 6, and sometimes 5. I'd say you should remove the golds and the 3/9 bases, as well as the corner bases ; then replace the golds with regular bases (with more ramps to access the high ground), put the 12/6 more toward the corner and the third bases more toward where the 12/6 were. -Why are there LOS blockers in the mains? -Some mineral lines are inneficient -Main bases are way too small. It feels like you could barely put 1 fac, 1 starport and a few factories in here. -Most ramps feel too narrow. There's no reason for the ramp of a potential fourth base (12/6 bases) to be that narrow for example. Just like having only two ramps, these being narrow, to access the natural's high ground is probably not good. -Not a fan of the middle gold bases, especially with only one ramp to access them. -Layout-wise, I dislike where you put the third bases,because you can defend the third + natural with little to no army movement. -Put overlord pods, especially near the nat's choke (which doesn't really exists btw). edit : yeah I'd put rocks on the small central path between the two high grounds to lenghten the nat/nat distance too. | ||
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