MoTM is suppose to be the best of the best map makers to showcase what they have. To get rid of ESV all together is stupid because let's face it, most of their maps are the best. Just because random no-name mapper is pissed because they don't win MoTM #x doesn't mean you should give up your spot.
If people really want to get in the spotlight with a good map they actually need to step it up and make a map that's worthwhile. It's going to be extremely bland to win MoTM only to say that none of ESV were allowed to enter. I mean, when I eventually win a MoTM I want to be able to send Ironman a PM and tell him to suck it. (Love ya buddy!)
LOL we didn't expect people would actually complain that we aren't entering.. we had original decided not to enter because it caused a lot of people to angry for various reasons. Now people are angry that we aren't submitting :S
We also rushed maps all too often, which we want to stop.
LOL we didn't expect people would actually complain that we aren't entering.. we had original decided not to enter because it caused a lot of people to angry for various reasons. Now people are angry that we aren't submitting :S
We also rushed maps all too often, which we want to stop.
That's when you tell those noobs who are crying to suck it because their maps blow ass. If you want to be the best, ya gotta beat the best.
I think it's time to start a petition. No more MoTM until ESV decides to play ball.
LOL we didn't expect people would actually complain that we aren't entering.. we had original decided not to enter because it caused a lot of people to angry for various reasons. Now people are angry that we aren't submitting :S
We also rushed maps all too often, which we want to stop.
That's when you tell those noobs who are crying to suck it because their maps blow ass. If you want to be the best, ya gotta beat the best.
I think it's time to start a petition. No more MoTM until ESV decides to play ball.
A bit blunt, but I agree. Only because I'm stepping it up though :D
That, and I don't exactly want them to start thinking they're too good to join in on things. Keep 'em at ground level, please, thx.
On May 08 2012 19:10 lefix wrote: Judge lineup for May: monitor - ESV Mapmaking Team - Creator of last month’s winner Afterglow Timetwister22 - ESV Mapmaking Team - Creator of last month’s second place Tanzanite wrl - TPW Mapmaking Team - Creator of last month’s third place Peaks of Alamar Archvile - TPW Mapmaking Team - Creator of Ferbruary’s winner The Grid Nightmarjoo - TLMC Judge - Veteran of the BW/SC2 mapmaking scene
Oh shi-! Barrin, Superouman, ProdiG and Lefix competing?
ESV will not be entering MotM at this point. Other mappers need the help more then us, and it will allow our mappers more time to do things like help judge MotM !
Hm, that doesn't sound like the best idea to me tbh. They make the maps anyway why not submit.
I mean this is the same thing like the idea no maps from teams, or for players to have tournaments without Koreans. It takes away from the credibility of the winning maps if they didn't have to compete against the best maps out there, and a lot of those best maps come from ESV...
I really hope ESV reconsiders this, I don't like the quality of the maps submitted to drop so much
Well, with ESV and TPW making MotM consistently, it takes a lot of diverse talent out of the pool. Sure, they make great maps a lot, but other people need the spotlight, as opposed to the usual suspects.
Well... no. Simply because the quality of those people's maps is simply lacking. Many teamless mapmakers act like it's somehow unfair and we are so biased and blabla but really, these maps just lack the level of refinement that most ESV and TPW maps have. And yeah big part of that refinement is constant internal feedback during the mapmaking process but also experience and effort. And I'm not always so sure some people put in enough effort either.
Again, ESV please reconsider. I'm gonna submit this month and I don't consider myself to be a top mapmaker, so realistically I don't see myself making top5 if all the best mapmakers submit. But I am totally fine with that as long as MotM stands for the best and most interesting maps out there (with the exception of maps that are already used in major tournaments). You are just taking away from the credibility of MotM and the top5 maps.
Sidian is a manly man for being teamless and being so outspoken about this Then again, he's in our Skype channel and one of the best teamless guys around.
On May 09 2012 09:16 monitor wrote: LOL we didn't expect people would actually complain that we aren't entering.. we had original decided not to enter because it caused a lot of people to angry for various reasons. Now people are angry that we aren't submitting :S
Most complains were because you were both entering and judging, wich looks biased, no matter how you do it it will always looks suspicious. Expect the same complains if any TPW map reach the top 5 with 2 of the judges being from TPW.
So if think it's a good decision for ESV, you had to either stop entering or stop judging. It would be better to keep entering and stop judging, but there still the matter of finding judges.
On May 09 2012 09:16 monitor wrote: LOL we didn't expect people would actually complain that we aren't entering.. we had original decided not to enter because it caused a lot of people to angry for various reasons. Now people are angry that we aren't submitting :S
Most complains were because you were both entering and judging, wich looks biased, no matter how you do it it will always looks suspicious. Expect the same complains if any TPW map reach the top 5 with 2 of the judges being from TPW.
So if think it's a good decision for ESV, you had to either stop entering or stop judging. It would be better to keep entering and stop judging, but there still the matter of finding judges.
Last month- 1 ESV judge, 2 ESV finalists 2 TPW judges, 1 TPW finalist 3 Non-team judges There would be a point if we had more ESV judges, but one judge doesn't have nearly that much power.
I could go on... but I don't think there's any need to.
Luckily we aren't withdrawing because we think we're "too good". Its because we rush our maps and sacrifice quality, which hurts us more than getting a finalist Motm gains us (with no tournament backing yet). It also causes a number of other issues, from complaints, to arguments, etc.
Probably the most sensible thing to do is to have ESV compete AND judge (their own maps). And then also NOT compete OR judge and have a completely random panel (i.e. TPW and Nightmarejoo) pick out the top five non-team mappers. This will ensure everyone is happy, and of course, that the real best maps will be shown off in a completely non-arbitrary and objective way.
Oh and there should be an entirely separate category of top 5 prodIG maps. Pure win.
I agree that ESV shouldn't rush maps, but I think you shouldn't lock out ESV from motm. I gather that this is more of a one month thing but if someone wants to submit a map they think is finished, I don't think they should be stopped. And I just like to see ESV maps, as they are generally pretty good quality when published.
Anyway, I really wish I could submit something, as I've only really submitted a map once... but I don't have any maps that are finished or very good, so we'll see. Good luck to all contenders!
well having the principle to not enter rushed maps makes sense, but totally withdrawing because of it does not. You've got 1,5 weeks.. go finish those promising new concepts I know you must have
Personally, given the limited time a full time working man has, participating every month isn't viable without rushing some. I also feel like I've been rushing maps, actually. But TPW is not officially withdrawing beacuse of it
Sorry to disappoint, but with no prize either there is not a single reason for us to enter. And if one of our maps that could have been a killer map gets rushed and sucks even once for a tournament with no prize and no tournaments that use the results, that is one map too many.
I think mapmaking has got to the point where you NEED to have tournament backing or prizes, you would not expect EG to play in tournaments with no prize, why should we?
Either way, regardless of the reasons, the decision stands at this point, sorry.
Come on. Not entering because of maps being rushed is a good argument. Let's stay at that and hope ESV members will participate in the future. Do we ragequit beacuse there isn't more korean map makers submitting?
I'm confident in the judges and believe that if top 5 maps weren't good enough, they won't get any further (be promoted for tournaments, etc) than being top 5. Fewer ESV maps in the competition won't change this.
Havin' a bit of a struggle figuring out which map I wanna work on for this, though. It might take me till the 20th, but I think I'll manage. I was a bit disappointed with my last month's entry, so I'll try and get this right.
EPT
!
Then again, he's in our Skype channel and one of the best teamless guys around.
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