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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
Read my post here to see what I'm talking about. For your website's layout, you should use the same format as starcraft wiki, as you don't display a lot of information on the units and buildings in detail. I also strongly recommend you look into what the theme of your race is, as it is currently lacking one. | ||
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jacksonps
Brazil37 Posts
But for now I'm redesigning the 5 firsts units of my race (Summon, Disciple, Precipitate, an armored new unit and Negator). When I was recording the Battle Report I saw they are broken. Disciples too strong, the Summoner being able to create lots of units very fast, low infrastructure resourcers needed to create an army (about 2 Shrine of Fighting and 4 Summoners)... and more. After I make the multiplayer solid enough, i'll work on the theme. I have the bases already, but it needs more work. | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
Reached master in 2v2 and top diamond in 1v1 two seasons ago. | ||
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CougarsGonnaCoug
United States18 Posts
I'd type my opinions on the current balance, but they've pretty much all been said with the exception of the problems with just the economy of the race. They're like Zerg, except they take less bases to make the same amount of stronger units. | ||
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jacksonps
Brazil37 Posts
*I also changed the site. I invested one day of work to create a new site using AJAX. And now you all can post opinions and reply someother opinions. Take a look: http://www.revelrace.com | ||
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CougarsGonnaCoug
United States18 Posts
On August 23 2012 13:17 jacksonps wrote: I need people to help me with ballance. Do you guys have an account on the AM server? *I also changed the site. I invested one day of work to create a new site using AJAX. And now you all can post opinions and reply someother opinions. Take a look: http://www.revelrace.com I play exclusively on the AM server, so that's not an issue. I'm not gonna lie, I'm only silver. But my knowledge of the meta (and my skill, in many people's opinions) far exceeds my rank, so you can trust me that it's not a problem. Anyway, I don't know if you want to add me or not interested because of my rank, but I'd still love to help and play some games with these people.  Also, I like the new site! | ||
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jacksonps
Brazil37 Posts
I'm just finishing the new set of low tier units and then the tests will begin. If you see, there is a leak of an low tier armored unit, what make the Revels very vulnerable against banelings, reapers and hellions. And some other problems: # Disciple are extremly good in numbers, making them extremly OP # The secondary damage of the Disciple have not any difference from an ordinary attack, making it desnecessary # The summoner can cast lots of unit very fast # The ability Repel of the Negator overrides the Modesty ability, and the Modesty becomes deprecated. I'm working on these and other issues..., and adding a new low tier armored unit. When i finish these all, i'll publish again. I see this race never stops being updated..., but each update makes it better then before..., so, we are going on and on =) | ||
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CougarsGonnaCoug
United States18 Posts
Also, I sent you a PM containing my character code, and I explained that I need yours too before I can add you. Just telling you because the PM button on these forums seems pretty out of the way and I'm not even sure how it notifies you that you received a PM in the first place. :D | ||
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
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CougarsGonnaCoug
United States18 Posts
First off, others have mentioned it, but in the map, Zerg spawns with unspread creep and no larvae. This impacts the timings of Zerg builds by a good amount. That being said, let's spoiler some data I collected over a match as Revel and a match as Zerg. + Show Spoiler + Revel Half Saturation = ~420 Saturation (4:15) = ~840 Two-base saturation = ~1660 Three-base saturation* = ~2400 6 Gas = ~680 10:00**: 10 Summoners 17 Disciples 5 Precipitates {47army supply} Full two-base saturation 3 gas Third about to start {88 total supply} 15:00**: 12 Summoners (1/1) 17 Disciples (1/1) 23 Precipitates (1/1) 6 Mist Lords (0) 6 Death Mirrors (0/0) {135 Army Supply} Full three-base saturation* 5 gas Fourth about to start {200 total supply} *I missed one patch on my third and had 2 Gatherers on shrineless mineral patches **I missed a good amount of production from not being used to the race And now for Zerg, the most economic of the three original races. + Show Spoiler + Half Saturation = ~320 Full Saturation (3:45*) = ~640 Two-base Saturation = ~1300 Three-base Saturation = ~2,000 6 Gas: ~700 *If you started the game with 1 larva, it would be a good deal faster Also, I used an opening where I made no units and instead opted for optimal saturation on my first two bases before filling my third. Mathematically, the increase per base doesn't really make sense; I'm just reporting what I see as an average total in the income tab. Also, I didn't include timings (except one) in the Zerg data because of the aforementioned lack of larvae at the start of the match. I think the data proves something, though - in its current state, the Revel economy is just too strong in my opinion. I think the increase in Shrine of the Gathering price to anything above 300 will definitely help, but I also think when you talk about midgame income, the fact that Revel far surpasses Zerg off 3 bases without a MULE mechanic is a bit OP. Again, just opinions. I played my first actual match just a bit ago though against a low-level Terran friend of mine, and it immediately brought a few things to my attention. First of all, what exactly do you intend to scout with? I mean, you can scout incoming 6 pools by launching a couple Beholders at about 2:15 (although holding them is much tighter - static defense goes up in an economic opening at around 3:15 while the lings arrive at 3:00 on Daybreak), but otherwise you're pretty much in the dark. Gatherers are slow and far too valuable to waste as a scout, and otherwise I guess you just have to hope for the best until you get a Disciple scout. Unless I'm doing it wrong. Another "problem" is that there aren't really any fast units to work with before you hit tier 2/3, so defending drops and even playing against stim kiting becomes really difficult. Nevertheless, if you can force an engagement, you can pretty much hold any all-in off while still being on 2-3 bases. I held off his push though, teched to Death Mirrors, and - well, I think you know how that ended. But just from a statistical standpoint...+ Show Spoiler + Beginning of battle Revel •5 Summoners (1/1) •32 Precipitates (1/1) •4 Mist Lords (1/1) •9 Death Mirrors (0/0) Terran •56 Marines (stim, 0/0) •1 Marauder (lol) •3 Siege Tanks (0/0) •2 Medivacs (0) Results Revel •21 Precipitates •1 Mist Lord •7 Death Mirrors Terran •2 Medivacs Now, I do understand that he was greatly outnumbered and wasn't familiar with the Revel units. I also understand that he didn't have any upgrades, but in all fairness, he went for a 2rax + siege tank push before taking his nat, and once again he didn't even know what he was up against. I still feel like this proved the sheer strength of this race even more. And that concludes my findings for the day. None of these comments are meant to criticize you - again, I love the race. I just want to make it better for people to play. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
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Taefox
1533 Posts
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CougarsGonnaCoug
United States18 Posts
On August 24 2012 11:33 foxj wrote: why don't u public it on NA or EU ? More players join, more feedback Can't speak for EU, but the AM server is just the official name for the "NA" server. Just search "Revel" and it should come up. | ||
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jacksonps
Brazil37 Posts
About the income: # Each Gatherer/Mineral Patch provides fixed 100 income. So, a mineral line saturated provides 800 fixed. This value, alone, is so much easy to ballance..., just increase the time between each collect to it reach the 80 income per mineral patch. # About the scout..., you are very right about the value of the gatherer to use it to scout. The Behold Spirit is working in an old concept. It will become an lifetime spirit, maybe an flying or non-collider, and will can be casted about 1:00. So, it can scout the enemy base, or any other spot of the map without the concern of losing the income of 1 worker. # About the low level units..., they are so problematic. But not an problem that can be fixed by changing values. It is an concept problem. I mean, they have a very little distance from being OP and UP, from being much useful or useless, and are concept that arent working together well. So, all the tier1 units are being remade. I'm working on a new version of the Berserker for tier1.5, and removing the Berserker from the high tier, and replace it with another unit. # About the Death Mirror, i think that it's one of the better concepts. Because it can work very well just by readjust its points and costs. Now it's a bit more resistent, but reflets only 5 (10 vs armored) points of damage, and deal a bit more damage (and gains more HP each attack *lifesteal) # To deffend against drops, the Hunters are very good. Also, the Disruptor is good against Marines. I cant be totally sure, but the Disruptor seems to be OP against marines (but not against marauders). So, it is also on the line to be ballanced. I cant dedicate to the Revels right now because i'm jammed on the work. I have a secondary life (the real life). But i'm working on the site, and thinking about the new concepts each break i take. @GoldDot: I understand you saying some of these things are unecessary, or can be more simple. But what i want is to create some alternative mechanics of units. Using existing concepts isnot an choice for me. But the harvesting system is easy to ballance, as I said above. The most difficult is creating the low tier units, because the possibilities are very limited avoiding the three existing concepts: the heavy one, the fast one, the ranged one. | ||
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jacksonps
Brazil37 Posts
I think we all have to gain with this project, and i'm surprised because more than 7000 people had see this project (at last, this page) and not even 1 of them have been interested to play or participate. I think my ideas aren't the worst of the world, else correct me if i'm wrong. Anyway, i'm writing here that i made some changes, and added a few new units, and i'll be pleasured if you can view the website, check out the changes and perhaps even play the game on the arcade@wings and leave the feedback on it. Dispite this frustation, i'm glad i did a great job and putting all of me to do the better I could and creating a project that, at last me, did never seen anyone else being able or willing to do the same. Thank you. =) | ||
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