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On May 03 2012 12:53 jacksonps wrote:
NeoGeoOdin, thanks for your feedback. I see the Omnispace got the most 'like's, and the other units not that much.
I'm working back on the concepts, unit by unit, and combining them, so you'll see news soon.
For example, the Warrior is being changed to a light melee unit, without activated abilities.
I'm testing the 2 statics abilities, to choose one or other, but not both:
# ambidexterity (it can melee attack 2 units at same time) [to counter lings and zealots, but not that hard]
# some-sort-of-name (ranged attacks against it will give him a buff for a short period of time, like speed upgrade) [to counter marines or stalkers].
I have to finish the concept of the second unit after the Warrior to choose one of these abilities, or create new ones. Also, the Warrior can get even a new name. 'Warrior' is much conventional.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you even add these abilities to begin with? I'd like to fiddle with something like this.
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The ambidexterity is simple do implement. Just add an splash damage limited to +1 unit. You add the damage effect, add an area search, exclude the target of the effect from the search (prevent the target to take the effect twice) and limit the units on the search by +1.
The second ability need to use triggers. Just add an event: Unit under attack, then add an action to buff the attacked unit (Warrior) by adding an behavior, simple way. In the trigger you can add any validation you want: Warrior is lower than half hp, attacker is armored etc.
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Every single unit is incredibly overpowered.
I'd play an RvR game tho.
A quick note- you have far too many abilities on these units. Consider the current game- units only have one or two abilities, even casters. The very first unit you have has all of the best abilities in the game- its a Blink Stim Snipe DT .
When you revamp these units, you should open Liquipedia to balance numbers, abilities, and the like.
I kind of like the idea of the Pawn, except not as the baseline worker. I think you pretty much HAVE to have regular workers to achieve any sort of balance.
But having Pawns be a tech unit... there's an interesting concept. They'd have to cost gas or something, so it's an investment to get them, but rewards tricky play hiding them on the map. They shouldn't come out before the early midgame, as every race will have a scouting option by that point. If they don't scout the gas you've invested in getting Pawns, and don't scout the map, perhaps you deserve that cool extra income. The pawns would have to permanently attach (so you can't just use 2 or 3 omnithings and teleport them around willy nilly), and it should take a couple minutes before they end up paying for themselves.
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Did you get ideas from the atlanteans in age of mythology? Their workers are exactly the same way.
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@Crownlol: the units arent ordered by tier, but alphabeticaly. The Dark Assassin is an tier3 unit, and the last, the Warrior, is the tier 1.
@NunedQ: Yes, the Pawn is based on the atlanteans workers, except they can haverst only minerals and can reproduce. But dont worry, they are getting completely redesigned. Right now, i'm testing these 2 ways:
# Pawns dont need to delivery resoucers in any building, but they need a main building near them that allows them to haverst. Without that building, they cant harvest, so they cant create an expantion so easily. The main building may cost 300 or 400, depending if it will produce workers or not.
# Pawns dont need to delivery resoucers in any building, but they collect resoucers in half rate instead normal rate. But with a main building near them, they collect resoucers in normal rate, creating a need of the main building.
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DAMMIT, i already wanted to create a 4th race, but when i'll release it officially, some ppl will say "Hey some unit looks like the revel race, you took some idea didn't you?"
:p the difference is you firstly created custom race, I am still checking for a potential mapmaker who will cooperate with me 
Anyway, the balance will be the hardest thing to do, just make it fun to play, and not just OP^^
Is it release on the EU?
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On May 04 2012 00:26 jacksonps wrote:
@Crownlol: the units arent ordered by tier, but alphabeticaly. The Dark Assassin is an tier3 unit, and the last, the Warrior, is the tier 1.
@NunedQ: Yes, the Pawn is based on the atlanteans workers, except they can haverst only minerals and can reproduce. But dont worry, they are getting completely redesigned. Right now, i'm testing these 2 ways:
# Pawns dont need to delivery resoucers in any building, but they need a main building near them that allows them to haverst. Without that building, they cant harvest, so they cant create an expantion so easily. The main building may cost 300 or 400, depending if it will produce workers or not.
# Pawns dont need to delivery resoucers in any building, but they collect resoucers in half rate instead normal rate. But with a main building near them, they collect resoucers in normal rate, creating a need of the main building.
Your t1 Warriors are better than Immortals. Just sayin.
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Lol, I was designing custom races months before beta even. Way before it was mainstream.
Actually I don't remember much about my custom race, I remember I was designing a worker that flew around with some sort of jet pack and carried minerals with it's feet. I forget everything else, though.
Still the idea of making custom races or total conversion mods is in the back of my head, though.
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On May 04 2012 00:54 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 00:26 jacksonps wrote:
@Crownlol: the units arent ordered by tier, but alphabeticaly. The Dark Assassin is an tier3 unit, and the last, the Warrior, is the tier 1.
@NunedQ: Yes, the Pawn is based on the atlanteans workers, except they can haverst only minerals and can reproduce. But dont worry, they are getting completely redesigned. Right now, i'm testing these 2 ways:
# Pawns dont need to delivery resoucers in any building, but they need a main building near them that allows them to haverst. Without that building, they cant harvest, so they cant create an expantion so easily. The main building may cost 300 or 400, depending if it will produce workers or not.
# Pawns dont need to delivery resoucers in any building, but they collect resoucers in half rate instead normal rate. But with a main building near them, they collect resoucers in normal rate, creating a need of the main building. Your t1 Warriors are better than Immortals. Just sayin.
I'm redesigning the Warrios because they are much more weak then they should be. And this isnot my opinion, this is what testes showed up!
They must counter Zealots, but 3 zealots can kill 4 Warrios easily, even with Hard Shield and etc. But that isnot all. They are being redesigning because the concept is bad right now; if it was just because they are weak, just giving they more points in some attribute would corret this..., but the concept is bad. =)
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I agree that the concept needs work.. But why must they counter Zealots? Shouldn't the relationship between them and other t1 units be pretty micro-based?
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On May 04 2012 01:31 Gfire wrote:
I agree that the concept needs work.. But why must they counter Zealots? Shouldn't the relationship between them and other t1 units be pretty micro-based?
So, if i but the ambidexterity, it'll be an micro fight.
# 1 zealot vs 1 warrior: Zealot wins.
# 2 zealots vs 2 warrios: Warrios wins (because both warrios will do double damage)
# 2 zealots microing vs 2 warrios: zealots can spread to avoid being attacked by the two warrios, but warrios can micro to walk together to force zealots get into the ambidexterity range.
Ambidexterity will rave an limited arc. It maybe 180°, 145° or 90°. Only testing the ballance will let me choose the better angle.
But, yes..., i agree you. Tier 1 units cant counter each other directily. Thanks for the feedback =)
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Why don't you just give the warriors 2 attacks?
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On May 04 2012 02:50 Yonnua wrote:
Why don't you just give the warriors 2 attacks?
I see it is more simple..., but this way the Warrior will be very like the Zealot, so there will be no inovation. I want to create a new unit, with new concepts. I tried other things, as example:
# ambidexterity gives the Warrior the option to use a second weapon, giving him the double damage, or use some sort of shield, giving him plus armor. But I think this will be innapropriate, because this kind of ability is much more like DOTA styles.
But just remember that all of this are at design time yet. The Warrior will be the tank of the army, so I am testing to give him buffs when he takes damage, what is much more appropriate and useful.
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A better example of concept is: countering the colossus. The only wat to counter the Colossus itnot killing it. If you can avoid the splash damage of him, it'll work fine to.
So i'm developoing a counter to the colossus that isnot like the Corruptors or Viking style..., is somethign innovator:
# Protector (this is the unit hole, not the name):
- Light, fly, cant attack, cant move when create the protector field (much like the Warp Prismo creates the power field).
- Can create an protector field with range 3 below it. Your units on the field take half damage (or no damage, testes will show wich to pick) from splash attacks; normal attacks causes full damage.
In the editor, damages have 4 types. One of them is for the Colossus and hellion type (splash without reduction by the distance) and the other is for Siege Tankes and Planetary fortress (with causes less damage by the distance). So its very easy to handle the damage the way you want depending on the type.
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Having a defensive area which allows you to avoid splash (a reverse dark swarm, in a way,) is interesting, but I think removing splash will mean that you will be discouraged from spreading your units, which seems like a bad thing to me. I'd rather something that you could cast on the area of the colossus which stops it from attacking until moving out of it, or something. Maybe like a disruption web that affects air units and colossi, so it could introduce some positioning even for air units.
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On May 04 2012 03:23 Gfire wrote:
Having a defensive area which allows you to avoid splash (a reverse dark swarm, in a way,) is interesting, but I think removing splash will mean that you will be discouraged from spreading your units, which seems like a bad thing to me. I'd rather something that you could cast on the area of the colossus which stops it from attacking until moving out of it, or something. Maybe like a disruption web that affects air units and colossi, so it could introduce some positioning even for air units.
I see your point. But on large battles its impossible to spread unts to avoid splash from colossus, due its great range. But see that the Protector will need to move forward if the protoss army get back a little..., so there is the micro to desactive/move/active..., then the protoss army can get you in this moment. I think this willnot remove the micro itself.
And things will change if we decide to make the protector affects also the AoE abilities, like Storms, Fungals and EMPs. So, see that its a lot of variables to finish the concept.
But I guess the concept of the Protector is great, so we can work on it and put it very good.
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I definitely like a way to deal with colossi that's designed around keeping your units alive, instead of killing off the colossi faster.
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I'm really confused because how is this a new race?
You took hero units from all of the 3 races and put them into one "race" lol
I expected new models.
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Literally everything seems overpowered. Just looking at tier 1:
Warrior: 75 minerals for a MASSIVE tank early game... wtf. Basically more dps than a marauder and more health and more armor for no gas and less mins.
Planeswalker: 50 less gas than a banshee for a tier 1 unit, nearly equivalent dps (much much higher v armored, slightly lower v light), much more tanky
Negator: Closest to being balanced but still seems to completely negate (haha!) any kind of tech rush. Thought you had a banshee? Actually I'm just gonna push it away and not allow it to move for 10 seconds. Modesty seems really hard to use, but again, let's say they got a tank. Modesty it and its already slow shots become EVEN slower. You compare it to using fungal growth, but infestors are a tier 2 unit that cost 100/150, not 50/75.
Also if warriors can't attack air, then there's no tier 1 that can attack air...
I understand that you want the race you create to be good, but everything is MASSIVELY unbalanced (from what the numbers look like)
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Oh also how many pawns would the player start with. Does it scale at about the same rate as every other race does? I feel like one of the other poster's ideas was best: have normal workers and have the pawn be a midgame unit you can create that costs a decent amount (including gas).
Otherwise I guess you'd have to start with 3. Then once you mined to 125, have worker 3 make worker 4, etc. It seems like thatd be INCREDIBLY difficult to balance. Since once you have 8 mining you're completely saturated. Also you could have your number of workers explode exponentially. They aren't limited by a building but by their own number. Playing against them you would almost certainly have to have some kind of early pressure so you can't have 3 pawns making 3 more pawns for your expo or something.
Also does your race have a defensive building? Oh and the obelisk definitely has to be nerfed as well. 200 for 20 supply? Everything else is 100 for 8 why would this not be 200 for 16 at the very max?
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EPT
