EPT[A] Starbow - Page 80
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
Some additional thoughts on the subject to follow later. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
 @Superouman That sounds weird! Can you describe it in more detail or maybe show a replay? @D-matrix Before I change anything, feel free to continue discuss the matter. @Energize Maybe it does not fit at all. Time will tell. If it adds negative things to the gameplay I will consider to remove/replace it. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
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Gendi2545
South Africa50 Posts
Just to comment on Kabel's ideas for the science vessel, I would be uncomfortable with a non-throwaway unit like the SV having spells with limited casts, it just doesn't feel good. The vulture's mines are bad enough but at least vultures are cheap and expendable. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-271512.jpg) it's at the end of the replay. he told me he couldn't move at the beginning, thats weird | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
But I will keep my ears open to see if more players report a similar issue. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
On September 17 2012 02:16 SmileZerg wrote: Random percentage are always bad for e-Sports. This is why the high ground advantage is now a flat 30% damage reduction instead of a 50% miss chance. But personally I'm open to alternate ideas for D-Matrix, it doesn't need to function identically to BW. This is not true. Percentages aren't random, they're percentages. You could argue that Starcraft is bad because a good player can take a risk for a build that loses if the opponent decides to all-in cheese. Build order wins might seem random, but they are really risks. Starcraft has always been half rts, half poker. When you drop a reaver, it might seem random that it might hit and might not, but really it's the protoss player that positions the reaver and chooses the best target to give the reaver the best chance to hit, and it's the opponents job to place buildings around to decrease those chances. When an opponent attacks up to the highground, he calculates and decides to take the risk of attacking because he feels he can win. It might seem like a completely random battle then if there is a percentage to miss, but it's absolutely not so because that percentage is happening so many times and because it's the players that decide that the risk is worth it. Esports are also new and there is absolutely zero evidence that shows that percentages are bad for them. BW proves the opposite and the lack of excitement some feel SC2 suffers from is partly due to SC2 being very predictable and being able to determine which army will win by simply looking at them. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Its like the Ghost/Vessel issue for Terran. It works and I could leave it like it is. But I think there are some flaws for Protoss that can be adjusted to make it even better. I will explain how I mean. Protoss has 3 casters: High Templars - Starts with Force Field. Can upgrade Psi Storm and Hallucination from SC2. Dark Archon - Starts with Feedback that destroys a unit with energy, Maelstrom stuns biological units and Void Shell makes up to 5 units "benign" aka not auto-attacked by the enemy for 15 seconds. Arbiter - Cloaks units, Vortex from SC2 and Matrix. Matrix creates a sphere on the ground that slows enemy units and buildings time by 25% and increases the time for your units by 25%. (Attack speed, movement, regeneration etc) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ip3Lo.jpg) So.. Whats the problem? High Templars can storm drop the enemy worker line by casting 2 Force Fields and then Storm. With the same unit. The opponent can´t do much to move his workers. I think this will cause some problems in other situations too. Furthermore, having Force Field on High Templars uses the key "F". New players often misscasts Force Fields on the enemy casters cause they are used to Feedback. Third problem is that Hallucination is so much worse than Psi Storm. I have tried a couple of games lately where I research Hallucination and used the energy on it instead of Storm.. In theory it could be useful to absorb damage from Spider mines. But right now Protoss uses Immortals for that. (They take a maximum of 20 damage per attack instead of 10 as in SC2) The only good thing with Halucination is that you can get a unit to scout or to trick the opponent into thinking you have a tech-unit you actually don´t have. But overall, the spell is rather useless. Dark Archons probably don´t have any problems. They see play sometimes and they are useful. Not sure if their line-up of spells is optimal though. They have Feedback as starting spell. That is good since the Dark Archons becomes more of a "protector" of the HT. Feedback the enemy Ghosts, Infestors, Vessels etc so they dont hurt your important HTs with storm. Maelstrom is an old BW classic and its ok. Only useable versus Zerg though, but its the same thing with Irradiate. I have added a 3 second visual effect that indicates where the Maelstrom will impact, so the opponent can react. It has led to more fun micro scenarios than before, when the Maelstrom just happened. "Bang, half your army is stunned!" Void Shell is rarely used but has led to both fun and annoying situations. It lets Zealots charge into heavy Siege contains without taking spider mines and tank fire. Unless the Terran pays attention. It also leads to some fun focus-fire scenarios. Overall the spell has potential. The worst scenario is that Protoss can in theory shield his entire army, A-move with it and the opponent can´t target fire so many units! He must just retreat or cast spells to stop the enemy. Arbiter - They dont have that feeling of usefulness as they had in BW. Recall was very important since it gave mobility to the otherwise rather slow Protoss army. Protoss today don´t have that problem. They can Blink, Warp in and have Warp Prismes with even more Warp in! I had Recall on Arbiters for a long time but it was not especially useful. I personally like Recall on Nexus now. Protoss rarely uses it, but sometimes players do creative things with it. It also enables Protoss to send out smaller groups of harassing units with the safety of recalling them back. Matrix has seen play a few times and it has actually been fun to use. Do I place it to slow the enemy army in that area, or to boost my own Stalkers in this area? I think that the spells for Protoss can be rearranged a bit to add more depth to the casters. I have some suggestions: - Arbiter. Vortex and "Rift" (I gotta call it something ^^) Rift costs 50 energy, has no cooldown, and teleports 1 unit to the Arbiter. A mini-recall. You can use it to bring slow units to the Arbiter, like Immortals, Reavers, Carriers. Archons. Overall I think such an ability will be useful and see lot of uses and decisions. - I personally think Matrix has potential. (Just need a better name) Increase and decrease "time" in an area is very versatile. You can use it in lots of different situations.. Use it on your Zealots while they engage enemy Zerglings/Ultras. (The effect is doubled, they get slow attack, your Zealots get faster attack) You can use them on Stalkers, Reavers and Immortals. The downside is that you are "stuck" in the matrix to get the bonus. So its a waste if you cast it in an area and moves away. In the same way, you can make areas bad for your opponent to be in which can force him away. The spell has a good visual look and feels kinda Protoss. My suggestion is to make it a spell for High Templars. Since you usually have many HTs, the area of effect can be rather small. So each Matrix only effects 5-6 units and not 15, like the Arbiter Matrix does. But I don´t know what to put as the starting spell for HTs. Warp into Archons, Storm, Matrix.. Maybe one more spell.. - A smaller version of Stasis Field from BW.. Effects 1 unit.. Lasts 60 seconds.. The unit can´t attack, move or take damage. Creates fun situations where units are "left" on the battlefield. Should you wait 1 minute with your army to kill just a few units when they are released? Also you can block ramps with high precision by Stasis your own Zealots one by one etc. The only downside is that it overlaps with Anti-gravity and Feedback as snipe spells.. Why get Corsairs to lift enemy siege tanks when you can instead "Stasis mini-field" them one by one.. Stasis field the enemy casters etc.. - Force Field.. Should it even be in the game? If so, which caster should it be on? Red Force Fields on Dark Archons.. O_o - Hallucinations are fun since they can trick the opponent.. How can it be adjusted so it actually becomes useful? - Should large stasis field replace Vortex for the Arbiter? That was a lot of questions and suggestions at the same time. To sum it up: - How can the line up of spells be improved for the Protoss casters? | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On September 17 2012 06:04 Laertes wrote: I want force fields, there is no reason not to have it, we will see some fun scenarios from units with force fields in the future. If you want to play SC2 you can always go back to it. Its a good (bad) game and it didnt go anywhere. + Show Spoiler + See what I did there? lol | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On September 17 2012 06:04 Laertes wrote: I want force fields, there is no reason not to have it, we will see some fun scenarios from units with force fields in the future. Force Fields have potential. Many players hate it but I do like them for various reasons. But having them on HTs is not a good idea. It will cause problems with storm plus that players get so confused with the Feedback/Force Field switch. And I don´t see any other unit to put it on. I can change color on them to red so they fit with Dark Archons.. But that does not feel right either | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
The reason I ask is to get more perspectives on the matter. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Its not crazy abusable like it is in SC2 by simply not having as much of the spellcasters and sharing energy pool with the all important storm. Dark Archons are cool. People haven't experimented too much with it though. Imagine, 4 DT's warped into opponents main. Morph 2 of them. Cast void shell. Its sorta like the ghost. Its got potential for awesome, but its just nowhere near as straightforward of a unit. Imagine also casting void shell on HT's, you could run up to the enemy army and just give them a nice storm blanket. Zero thoughts on arbiter. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
Stasis and Vortex are replaceable so I'm okay with that. Stasis was interesting because it made the units invincible, vortex does the same. It also lasted a good amount of time so you could stasis units on ramps and block them. Vortex can do the same I think. So I guess as long as vortex lasts long enough to act as a good ramp block, I'm good. Benign seems a little weird to me. I guess it could be useful, but it just seems odd. I'd have to see it used more. I have no problem with force fields. What I have a problem with are spells that are spammed. In SC2 players made so many sentries to cast forcefields, and that's what annoyed me. It's sort of what annoys me about blink. No problem with the spell, I just hate seeing too many spells all the time. I think we can do without it for right now though, since I can't think of where to really put it. I think we could use the oracle unit model for some interesting things later, so maybe there. On the topic of protoss, I'm not sure why the immortal is in. The way the immortal is right now, it seems like a boring unit. I'd say scrap it. | ||
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scen
Wales61 Posts
On September 17 2012 07:19 decemberscalm wrote: Its not crazy abusable like it is in SC2 by simply not having as much of the spellcasters and sharing energy pool with the all important storm. of course it is nothings changed except you need to make 1 extra high templar. Personally i would prefer guardian shield over forcefield. Vortex is kinda crap in this because theres nothing to archon toilet. I think a spell that would be awesome would be something that affects a large area and after a delay destroys everything in that area(except buildings). | ||
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