EPT[A] Starbow - Page 56
| Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games |
|
Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
| ||
|
scen
Wales61 Posts
| ||
|
seve
91 Posts
| ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Minor fixes to spells & actors & models. The usual boring stuff that needs to be fixed when errors are found. Swarm Guardian movement speed and life reduced a bit. (They were very hard to catch and kill) Recall on Nexus teleports 8 ground units instead of 6. (It felt very weak earlier, wanna see if this makes it more useful) Matrix for Arbiters makes units in an area regenerate life & energy at a slow rate, instead of giving a rapid shield regeneration like it did earlier. (The reason for this is that Plague just destroys Protoss, so this is a way to recover) Feedback for Dark Archon now destroys a unit with energy! Dark Archon is a lategame expensive unit. Feedback is the only snipe spell Protoss has and it is very hard to snipe the crucial spellcasters for the enemy: Swarm Guardians & Science Vessles, since Feedback rarely kills them. Corsairs can´t snipe them since they deal so low damage. Stalkers who blink in to snipe them is suicide. So Feedback is now a really strong spell, but it´s weakness is that it has a 30 second cooldown (instead of 0) And because of this Battlecruisers don´t have energy any more... Yamato gun has a 90 sec cooldown instead. I have not changed anything about Protoss early game, like gateways build time, stronger stalkers etc that some has suggested. I want to give it more time so we can identify what the problem with early game Protoss might be. ... Anyone wanna play on EU? Join Starbow chat channel as usual ^^ | ||
|
scen
Wales61 Posts
On August 11 2012 02:34 seve wrote: What openings do you play as Protoss and what opening does the Zerg play? I am asking just out of curiosity cause i have not experienced any trouble getting my natural up. FFE. Its not too hard to get the base up but its really hard keep it. (possibly the map). | ||
|
seve
91 Posts
| ||
|
scen
Wales61 Posts
| ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
| ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
This one has a few dramatic changes to balance, especially for Protoss. Let me explain: Stalker. Stalkers in Starbow (and SC2) deal 10 damage vs all units and 14 vs armored units. (Example of armored units: Siege tanks, buildings, goliaths, ultralisks, lurkers, other stalkers etc) The attack speed of a Stalker is 1.44. This means that Stalkers deal 583 damage per minute to armored targets and buildings. They deal 410 damage per minut vs all other targets. (Like hydras, zealots, zergling, mutalisks, marines etc) Stalkers have 80 shield and 80 HP. And they just melt to Hydras, zerglings, mutalisks and Marines. So I decided to boost the Stalker a bit. In this patch their stats will be like this: 100 HP and 80 Shield. They deal 10 damage vs everything BUT have a faster attack speed at 1.25. This means that they deal 491 damage per minut to ALL targets. So they are overall better vs hydras, mutalisks, marines and almost everything else, but a bit worse vs armored targets now and buildings compared to earlier... So how will this make sense? Well, when looking at the Protoss tech-tree it seems like Protoss has no tier 2 unit. If you want to build something else beside gateway units that deals damage, you must tech to reavers, carriers or high/dark templars. Or use corsairs vs Zerg... + Show Spoiler + With this in mind I have brought back the Immortal. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BU20X.jpg) But don´t get all upset yet.. Lets look at the stats of it now: Immortal fills the role of being extra good vs armored targets, since Stalkers no longer are that. It deal 20 damage vs everything else and 50 damage vs armored stuff. So it will be useful against: Stalkers, Lurkers, Ultralisks, Tanks, Goliaths and buildings. And not so good vs marines, vultures, hydras, zerglings.. It also has it´s shield ability, which was a total nightmare in SC2. 1 Immortal could survive 14 siege tank shots! You could A-move with Immortals into a siege line and melt everything! The shield is now nerfed. It reduces 20 damage per shield shot. It takes 8 siege tank shots to destroy an Immortal now. The shield also protecs vs spider mines, which means you can soak up a couple of them. As a drawback to the Immortal, the shield regenerates twice as slow as ordinary shields. It also has a slower attack speed now.. And Vultures are no longer armored, so the Immortal can not just A-move through a Siege contain and destroy every mech-unit by itself. It can however prodive your gateway army with some extra muscles if you focus fire the right targets.. I don´t think Immortals will be used often versus Zerg, except in lategame where it can destroy ultralisks & lurkers. It will die to zerglings and hydras.. It will probably see play in PvP since they will do good vs Stalkers. And it will most likely be most useful in PvT. And this will shift the meta-game for Terran.. I have now made EMP for Science Vessels effect a larger area, so it will be more important to get. 4 marines destroys 1 Immortal, so adding a bunch of them, or Ghosts with lockdown, to your mech army will in theory be good counters. Getting 1 early wraith can prevent the enemy from using Warp Prism to drop Immortals upon your tanks.. Vultures are decent vs Immortals too, since Vultures are no longer armored and does not take 50 damage per hit.. plus that you can use them to focus fire the shields on Immortals quite quick. So we need to see how this turns out... Oh and Immortals costs 200/100 now. Same price as a Reaver. Besides this, Hydralisks now deals extra damage vs mechanical units, instad of only armored units. So they are good vs vultures, stalkers, tanks, goliaths, Immortals AND now better vs corsairs & wraiths. (The damage is the same as before) Vultures damage has been fixed. It deals 9 damage vs everything and +9 damage vs light units. Earlier it did 12 damage vs everything and 18 vs light. It was supposed to only deal 6 damage vs armored, but for some reason after patch 1.5 the editor does not allow a unit to do LESS damage vs an armor type :s In PvT it will look something like this: Vultures kills Zealots. Zealots kills tanks. Spider mines kill zealots & stalkers. Stalkers kills Vultures. Immortal kills Tanks & can absorb some spider mines. Vultures, Marines kills Immortals. Reavers kill Marines & Vultures Tanks kill Stalkers.. And as usual, feel free to leave your thoughts about this. You see gaps in my reasoning? I´m online on EU now if anyone wanna try this. | ||
|
Danko__
Poland429 Posts
| ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
It might seem that I change stats or other stuff left or right for no reason. But I have actually only touched unit values a few times the past 2 weeks now. Zerglings, marines, siege tanks, hydras, mutalisks, lurkers, banelings, zealots, archons, etc has the same stats as they had for a long time now. I am aware that players need to try the game before things changes back and forth. Imbalances (both good and bad units) can often be fixed by playing differently or by using other build orders etc. But some of the recent changes is because the same pattern has appeared in several games, despite players using different strategies and decisions. If I see that the same problem arises in lots games, both by master or gold players, I think something must be adjusted. The Goliath issue was such a thing Ive changed a couple of days ago. It was beefier when built from the Techlab. But they were so limited in their production due to factories needing Tech lab.. Even though they were stronger, mutalisks could easily overrun Terran going mech. Voidrays destroyed Terran. So I felt that something needed to be done. My solution was to make Goliaths be built at reactors but have less HP and less attack speed vs ground. Of course, another solution could have been to make Goliaths larger and even better. You have few, but they are good. Mini-thors.. But I choosed to let them be weak and vulnerable, but plenty. Earlier I have been scrapping a lot of stuff from SC2. "This thing is not good for the game, remove it!" And I have changed my view on stuff from SC2 & BW. When a concept is bad, its bad and nothing can be done no matter what stats it has! On the other hand, a thing can have a good concept, but being bad due to bad stats, values and numbers. Take the Immortal for example. It actually has a good concept. We have the weaker, more mobile Stalker. Immortal is the new Dragoon with its own role and unique shield ability. Immortals and Stalkers don´t overlap. And now when I removed Stalkers extra damage vs armored, they get even more unique compared to each other. Stalkers fast & agile, Immortals slow and tough. The problem with Immortal is the values. The stats they have in SC2 is soooo good that they nullify Siege tanks and base defences completely. And sieging tanks and controlling territory is the fun thing with Terran  But if the Immortal gets a decent balance, with decent stats, I think that will add to the diversity of Protoss, rather than being a problem. Same with Inject. I hate it because Zerg MUST use inject. You have to do a mindless thing every 40 seconds else you fall behind. Now when I brought it back and adjusted the numbers, I don´t consider it a problem anymore. I mean, if Zerg players want to use their Queens to inject to get 2 more larvas, let them do it! Its a small boost you can choose to use. Since you can´t have more Queens than you have hatcheries, players can´t spread creep or inject as much as they want. They got to choose how to use their limited queens energy. Also, you can´t store more than 5 larvas in a hatchery with Inject. So no more silly remax-scenarios with 60 saved larvas al'a SC2. Dakota for example, still goes mass hatcheries. He spreads the creep like a madman instead. All energy from his first 2-3 Queens goes to spreading creep. Never uses Inject what Ive seen. Still he wins a lot of games and macros great. Another Zerg I saw, he injected all the time, but spread barely any creep. His army got a bit larger due to getting some extra larvas, but at the cost of map mobility. I think this broadens the way Zerg can be played. In SC2 you must Inject. In BW you must mass hatcheries. Here you can do either thing or something in between. | ||
|
Danko__
Poland429 Posts
| ||
|
MNdakota
United States512 Posts
Hope to see some of the new changes come into play. | ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I be online in 30 minutes again | ||
|
MNdakota
United States512 Posts
On August 12 2012 04:15 Kabel wrote: Its 9 PM here in Europe now, so dont wait too long to get online Dakota. Soon everyone is sleeping ^^ I be online in 30 minutes again Things are coming up. It will be awhile. I don't even know if I'll be on. | ||
|
MNdakota
United States512 Posts
| ||
|
RyLai
United States477 Posts
For Zerg, I don't think you should have that Infect Creep ability. Keep Larvae Inject. Maybe drop the number to 3 Larvae instead of 4 (or 2, since the economy won't really allow you to afford as many Larvae?). Taking it out altogether is too much, especially with Reactors and Warp Gates out there (nerfed or not). I'm also on the fence about the Banelings. If they stay in the game, Protoss will be forced to rush Reavers unless they get Sentries back (waiting for tier 3 to have Force Fields is just retarded since one of its primary functions is to give Protoss a defensive tool with which to REACH tier 3). And I'm so used to seeing Roaches in the game I'd be sad to see them leave. They should be retained in the game, but maybe have their role changed since Hydras function as the new backbone of the army. Maybe have them be a 3 supply unit that has low range but is tanky to buffer for the Hydras, like a Zealot. So like a range 2 Roach (that retains it's increased regeneration while Burrowed and Burrowed movement) that has 175 hp and 2 armor and same attack but at 10 damage instead of 16 (maybe 12). Also, only Roaches and Infestors should be able to move while Burrowed. Don't change that. And Infestors should not be able to use Neural Parasite while Burrowed. Maybe increase the range back to 9 (I don't think anybody though NP was the issue with Infestors back when everyone QQed about Infestors). Infest shouldn't affect attack speed and should spawn a Infested Terran when the infested unit dies. If you bring back the Sentry (which means there's no real reason NOT to have Banelings in the game), then Banelings with Infestors would be a solid combination (as they are now). You Infest the Marines/Stalkers, kill them with Banelings, then rise a temporary Infested Terran army to replace your Banelings. It might be a bit broke, but seeing as you need to KILL the units first (while having them infested), it seems like a fair trade for the combo. Also, Plague should NOT be given to the Infestor. That's a tier 3 ability. Give it to the Swarm Guardian and take out Frenzy (or change it). For Hive tech, I'm happy with everything except Frenzy. Maybe having it be cast in an AoE or summon a temporary unit that simulates the effects of creep (meaning units move faster on it) for units either cast on or in the AoE. Or just remove the ability altogether since this also sounds like a bit much. And I feel like Speedlings should be nerfed. Their current speed on creep is fine, but their speed off creep is ridiculous. It's fine for them to cover the entire map in seconds defensively, but offensively that's just too much. Having a base MS of 3.5 should suffice (maybe even a tad closer to 4), but running around at 4.7+ all the time is just too much. Oh, and the Broodlord's debuff should only last 2-4 seconds. I mean, you don't want to make it too easy to drop a ton of free units onto the board. 2-4 seconds is plenty. I don't really want to see the Marauder go for Terran, but whatever... It's not that big of a deal until Reavers come out (being able to do something when you can actually catch a Reaver in the back of the army can only come from Marauders, not Marines). And by the time Reavers are an issue, you should be able to have Vultures and Tanks to deal with them (and Goliaths on the way if you're afraid of drops, for which Turrets should already be up). It makes things easier for Protoss early on and means that Terran will always be on the defensive until their Marine production is booming or Tank/Vulture production has started. However, Marauders weren't much of an issue in PvT early on anymore unless the Protoss got greedy (poking too long with a Stalker knowing that a Marauder opening was a possibility), or the Protoss messed up their early composition. Marauders AREN'T an issue, especially with Force Fields. Siege Tanks better be freakin' amazing. Otherwise, with no Marauders, Mech (and Terran in general) will get SHIT ON by Protoss. Blink Stalkers running amok, Chargelots demolishing front lines (Charge+Spider Mines=dead mech), and Reaver drops. Siege time better have been decreased, Siege damage (especially to armored) better have been increased, and base Tank mode damages (especially to armored) better have been increased. Sure, this means it sucks to be a Zerg, but with tier 1.5 Hydras that are light and tier 3 Dark Swarm, they should be able to last long enough to get to Dark Swarm. If not, add an ability to the Roaches similar to Hardened Shields that basically prevents them from taking more than say, 35 damage from any source of damage (if the value is too low, Roaches will demolish mech), making them great at absorbing Tank fire and Spider Mine damage. At the very least, Tanks should be reduced to 2 supply. I also feel like Nerve Jammer is too much. If you drop it on top of your Tanks, then you can't really ever lose a fight. Terran has always been designed to be the best defensive race if you give them time to set up. By giving them Nerve Jammer, you essentially remove the time required to set up and make them a moving wall, an unstoppable force. This ability would be better served for Zerg or Protoss (perhaps replacing Vortex and readding Statis Field; Zerg already has Dark Swarm). And I don't know about the replacement for MULEs. It feels very awkward. Just nerf the MULE income. There are probably a bunch of other problems, but I'd too lazy to look into every single detail of every change and analyze it to hell. The name can also be changed to Starcraft:Evo. Or COM:Star (Community Starcraft). | ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
| ||
|
Danko__
Poland429 Posts
| ||
|
Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On August 12 2012 23:17 Danko__ wrote: My bet: Pure theorycraft ^^. Got time to play right now Kabel? Just got home from work. I will be online in 20 minutes. I am publishing a new patch now. But don´t worry, there are no drastic changes! I am adjusting the damage made by siege tanks & vultures. According to the helpful and skilled people at sc2mapster, it is not longer possible to add a reduced damage in a damage effect. No matter if I make a new armor type. The only way might be that I add a behaviour to each unit in the game, that makes them take % less damage from certain attacks. So if we want to make siege tanks deal 35 dmg vs light units, like zealots, marines and zerglings, I have to add a behaviour to them that makes them take less damage from the siege tank damage effect. Sure, it can be done, but before I do that I try these simple values instaed: Siege tanks deal 45 dmg vs all and 65 dmg vs armored. (Earlier they did 50 vs all, 65 vs armored and 35 vs light) They now kill Zealots in 4 shots instead of 5. Zerglings & marines takes 1 and 2 shots each to kill, just like before. Vultures now deal 8 dmg vs all and 16 dmg vs light. (Earlier they did 6 vs armored, 12 vs everything else and 18 vs light) I am also making Battlecruisers killable by Feedback from Dark Archons, since Stalkers now deal less dmg vs armored. Yesterday, BCs slaughtered Protoss and they could not even get Feedbacked.  Also, the Ultralisk is weird! Its armor is 10 in the game, no matter what value I set to it in the editor! I give it 1, I try 2, I try 0. It still has 10 in the game! I can´t find out what causes that, so now I nerf Ultras life from 400 to 300 instead. Reavers, Archons, Dark Templars, Immortals, Spider mines, Siege tanks, Irradiate, Yamato gun will slaughter them. Zealots, Stalkers, Marines & Zerglings will do 1 damage each : / | ||
| ||
