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On February 01 2012 19:24 Kabel wrote:
What shall we do with the queen?!
The queen fits so well in the Zerg race in a lore way. Like a giant queen observing the drones and larvas and giving birth to more creatures..
How can the queen become interesting?!
Bring me your ideas!
keyword: lore.
in the beginning of a zerg invasion, 7 drones are sent to the surface of the world in an overlord, and one of these morphs into a hatchery, the overlord watches over and guides the drones to the nearest minerals, and tells them as well as the larvae to produce more drones, more overlords, and a spawning pool.
when the spawning pool is finished, it is time for the overlords to leave and explore, but they must not leave the larvae unprotected. so they do 3 things: they order the production of spinecrawlers and zerglings, and finally, they leave one overlord at home which is morphed into the keeper of the hatchery, the queen.
the queen is morphed from overlords, perhaps it flies, perhaps it does not, in any case, it is, like the overlord, slow
the queen will protect any of her subjects from enemies, for as long as a subject is close to the queen, it gains increased armor.
every allied zerg unit or unit within the queens attack range get +1 armor, if the enemy wants to kill her children, they have to kill her first. (does not stack with itself, queens do not get this buff)
the queen can give birth to a number of things, most notably the basis of zerg units, larvae, and small lifeforms symbiotic with the creep itself, creeptumors. some zerg colonizations prefer to morph 2 queens, 1 for tending to the "nursery", and 1 for extending the territory.
queens can spend 25 energy to make a creeptumor, or 10 energy to lay an egg, the egg spawns 1 larvae after 10 seconds, both abilities can only be done on creep, see math furthest down
stats:
ground or air unit, your choice.
morphed from overlord
requires spawning pool
name: queen
supply provided: 8
supply used: 2
cost: 150 minerals
speed: unknown, slow, bound to creep
tags: biological, massive.
attacks: air and ground attacks
spawns with 0 energy.
abilities:
protective reach (passive): all non-queen allied units and building within the queens attackrange get +1 armor
spawn creeptumor (active, 25energy): spawns a creeptumor
spawn egg (active, 10 energy); spawns a single egg, which after 10 seconds hatches to reveal a larvae, can be done anywhere with creep
any and all numbers can of course be changed in any way as per the readers wish.
the main disadvantage of this larvae change is the reduced larvae production, the main advantages though, is the following:
if you miss an egg-laying, you can later lay 2 eggs at the same time, energy does not have a maximum speed in which it can be transformed into larvae (much the same as mules), as is the case with the classic queen.
a queen can make a "nest" where it lays eggs anywhere, not just at hatcheries, meaning for the cost of 2 supply, you can get a much cheaper macrohatch. (this may or may not introduce "proxy-nest" problems, since eggs must be lain on creep, it probably will not be a big issue in non-mirror matchups.)
if queens provide supply, then less overlords are needed, which will reduce the "overlord clouds" we at times see.
I would recommend making overseers also cost 1 supply (and give 8), that way the overseer cannot be massed (100+) and the overseer can get some more useful abilities.
math on larvae:
as is obvious, 50 energy for 5 larvae is much less than 50 energy for 8 larvae, as a matter of fact:
hatchery spawnrate: 1 larvae / 15 seconds
queen spawnrate: 1 larvae / 10 energy
25 energy = 40 seconds
1 energy = 40/25 seconds
1 energy = 1.6 seconds
10 energy = 16 seconds
queen spawnrate = 1 larvae / 16 seconds
in other words, the queen no longer even outproduces the hatchery regarding larvae.
but note (assuming you already have an overlord):
queen larvae spawnrate / cost = 1/16 / 150 = 4.1666... * 10^-4
hatchery larvae spawnrate / cost = 1/15 / 300 = 2.222... * 10^-4
(queen LS/C) / (hatchery LS/C) = 1.875
in other words, the queen is still an 87.5% better choice than a macro hatch as far as larvae goes.
edit: this also fixes a bunch of weird things like the hatchery needing 3 rallypoints, but introduces funky stuff like morphing queens in the enemy base.
// my thoughts
Roblin
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just some random thoughts on the colossus:
you could give it a void ray like attack, similar to the original colossus design. (no void or immortal might already be a huge problem against ultras)
maybe some form of "pushing other units around when walking over them" ability, so you have to be extracarful when using them with other units.
colossi being able to charge each other for extra dmg/range
colossi being able to create permanent "firewalls" on the ground while being unmoveable (shooting the ground)
dying colossi dealing dmg to units under them
colossi not being able to turn for shots, but always requiring some movement to turn
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Banelings, what about the banelings?!
What shall we do with them?!
They explode like a fungal growth?
They can only explode while burrowed?
They deal high damage vs buildings and mechanical units only?
They don´t roll into enemy units and auto explode, you have to click a explode button when they are near the enemy army?
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Robin,
thats what i would like to avoid. Cheap larva lowering value of hatcheries. And i dont want forgiving mechanic to just replace hard one ("oh i forgot to drop mul... i mean lay down eggs, np im gonna just lay down 3 at once"). Ofcourse i would love to have queens as housekeepers (and creep spread is awesome too). I really want to find cool macro mechanic. Rewarding, not forgiving & hard to master. Queens can morph from overlord, and spread creep. They can give protective auras (but honestly i dunno if that really fits here), but i need to replace aditional larvae with something different. Maybe dont focus on queen guys, but on macro mechanic instead of larvae inject.
Big J
I dont like ideas of voidray atack and pushing units, but requirement of placing it well because it can shot only at very limited angle and is hard to manouver is interesting idea. Well made could require quite lot of skill to use properly and also would force opponent to make immediate action so colo wont be able to massacre his army. Yeah, i like that concept.
Kabel,
Banelings and roaches need new role ^^. Baneling mines are no longer that awesome because there are even more awesome lurkers. Paralyze units (fungal groth) or slow unit on hit? Dunno. Now they fulfill same role as lurkers.
Roaches. I never really liked them. They are boring in sc2. Hydras now are more versalite. Zerglings always were better for harras/backstab. I have absolutly no idea how to fit them.
Keep thinking guys. Warpgate, Zerg macro mechanic. Are 2 main topics right now ^^.
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On February 02 2012 03:48 Danko__ wrote:
Robin,
thats what i would like to avoid. Cheap larva lowering value of hatcheries. And i dont want forgiving mechanic to just replace hard one ("oh i forgot to drop mul... i mean lay down eggs, np im gonna just lay down 3 at once"). Ofcourse i would love to have queens as housekeepers (and creep spread is awesome too). I really want to find cool macro mechanic. Rewarding, not forgiving & hard to master. Queens can morph from overlord, and spread creep. They can give protective auras (but honestly i dunno if that really fits here), but i need to replace aditional larvae with something different. Maybe dont focus on queen guys, but on macro mechanic instead of larvae inject.
Big J
I dont like ideas of voidray atack and pushing units, but requirement of placing it well because it can shot only at very limited angle and is hard to manouver is interesting idea. Well made could require quite lot of skill to use properly and also would force opponent to make immediate action so colo wont be able to massacre his army. Yeah, i like that concept.
Kabel,
Banelings and roaches need new role ^^. Baneling mines are no longer that awesome because there are even more awesome lurkers. Paralyze units (fungal groth) or slow unit on hit? Dunno. Now they fulfill same role as lurkers.
Roaches. I never really liked them. They are boring in sc2. Hydras now are more versalite. Zerglings always were better for harras/backstab. I have absolutly no idea how to fit them.
Keep thinking guys. Warpgate, Zerg macro mechanic. Are 2 main topics right now ^^.
1. the queen aura thingy was purely from a lore perspective (queen being protective of its underlings), Im sure everyone who read it realized it doesn't fit in.
2. eggs no good, kk.
lets try to solve this systematically
our problem:
zerg macro mechanic is not interesting and/or does not contribute well enough to the game.
the solution:
find a better macro mechanic and implement it.
what is a macro mechanic?:
a mechanic in the game which affects macro.
what is macro?
macro directly translates to "large" and in the game of SC relates to the game from a large perspective.
what affects macro? = what affects the game on a large scale?
production and research
income
vision
<space left blank to account for the possibility that there are factors I have missed>
in what ways can we improve production and research?
increasing it
reducing time spent.
reducing cost.
improving effect.
in what ways can we improve income?
increasing it
decrease the need for it.
in what ways can we improve vision?
making the vision detect invisible units.
increasing the vision range.
giving vision where there were none before.
what distinguishes a good mechanic from a bad one?
answer unknown or "fuzzy", can only guess, have to go by feeling
what other details do we have?
the macro mechanic should, if possible, be tied to the queen unit.
what do we know about the queen unit?
it is a big, territorial unit preferring to stay in the same place for the duration of the game, more specificly the base, fills much the same role in the zerg hierarchy as the ant queen does in the ant hierarchy.
what parallells can we draw to things we have more information about?
queens of hive cultures, that would be ants, bees, wasps, termites and similar.
what would these parallell existances do if they were to get a macro mechanic?
almost exclusively lay eggs for producing workers or soldiers of their respective species.
laying eggs have been beaten to death, this is a dead end. backtracking.
can we draw parallells that are a bit further away?
how about spiders? they make nets, much the same way queens spread creep.
what can spiders do?
walk around on walls, cliffwalk is no macro mechanic, but might be interesting anyway.
lay sacs of eggs, we shouldnt be searching for ways to increase larvae production.
spread their net, this might be interesting.
how can we translate spreading a net into sc2, other than creep?
spreading something other than creep? no, that would make it messy, how about connecting stuff together?
idea: the queen can connect 2 buildings together with something like a thick vine (think neural parasite), the building with lower percentage health gets increased hp regeneration, the one with higher percentage health loses hp slowly.
in effect: the buildings try to keep each other alive by transferring health to whichever one is more damaged.
1 building can be connected to more than 1 other building at a time, thus you can connect entire bases together, and if any 1 building takes damage, the entire base will help out in healing it.
thats an interesting concept, connecting the base together with itself, but so far it doesnt seem to do anything regarding macro.
idea: some upgrades, units and benefits require a connection to a certain building. example: to build ultralisks, you need an ultralisk cavern, but to upgrade chitinous plating, you need an ultralisk cavern connected to a roach warren, defensive buildings connected to a main building get some perk like increased range, etc.
while this is an interesting idea, more options are better, and so we search on.
it does not make sense for the queen to aid in income, so we limit ourselves to production, upgrades and vision when searching for macro mechanics.
how about incorporating everything? an all-encompassing, ultra-versatile ability?
idea: the queen can use the "nest" ability on any tech building, the queen dissappears into the building and dies if the building dies, the units attributed to that tech building gets reduced buildtime and that building upgrades stuff faster, the units attributed to the building may or may not get stat bonuses as long as the queen is in the building. some upgrades may or may not require a queen to nest in it. the queen can exit the building at any time. you may or may not be able to build more than X queens, queens nesting in hatcheries cause the hatchery to produce larvae faster.
as for zerg macro mechanics, im pretty dry on ideas right now so I'll leave it at that.
regarding warpgate, I would say the use of warpgate should have it's advantages and it's disadvantages, for example, longer production cycles.
but as I don't know what you are searching for, I will stay quiet on that subject.
edit:
+ Show Spoiler +sorry, misread, I thought you said you wanted the queen more specificly, guess I was wrong.
well, that leaves a bunch more options though, for example, both of the mechanics I explained earlier can be used without the queen as a catalyst, as a matter of fact, something like a "symbiotic enhancer" would fit better with the nest thingy.
several other things would work too, such as:
2 variations of workers, 1 variation mines minerals faster than the other, the other one mines gas faster, this might be a nerf or a buff for zerg in general, depending upon what the "standard mining speed" is compared to the other races.
after the initial cooldown of 10 seconds, creeptumors can produce additional creeptumors every 30 seconds, thus the creep will be less "directional" and losing all of your active creeptumors does not mean you can no longer spread creep without a queen. more spreading requires more attention anyways.
a special variation of hatchery costing 250 minerals but can only be built on creep, it does not produce creep on its own.
etc.
// Roblin
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what is macro?
macro directly translates to "large" and in the game of SC relates to the game from a large perspective.
Thats not truth. Macro as term in sc means economy. Not vision, not "game from large perspective". Just pure money management. Producing workers, expanding, building producing facilities, building units.
in what ways can we improve income?
increasing it
decrease the need for it.
We can also increase efficency. Not directly increase income, nor decrease need for it. We can make it more suply and/or cost efficent. Orbitary commands calling down mules are example of increasing income but making it more suply efficent as well. Also spreading workers equally over bases makes it more efficent.
I think we can try going this way.
what distinguishes a good mechanic from a bad one?
answer unknown or "fuzzy", can only guess, have to go by feeling
Good mechanic is not limiting our options, is not substitiute for something. Good macro mechanic is rewarding, nonforgiving, not easy and will separate good players from bad.
what parallells can we draw to things we have more information about?
queens of hive cultures, that would be ants, bees, wasps, termites and similar.
But do we have to copy something?
idea: the queen can connect 2 buildings together with something like a thick vine (think neural parasite), the building with lower percentage health gets increased hp regeneration, the one with higher percentage health loses hp slowly.
in effect: the buildings try to keep each other alive by transferring health to whichever one is more damaged.
1 building can be connected to more than 1 other building at a time, thus you can connect entire bases together, and if any 1 building takes damage, the entire base will help out in healing it.
thats an interesting concept, connecting the base together with itself, but so far it doesnt seem to do anything regarding macro.
Exactly. ^^ Interesting. Funny. And not answer to what we are looking for.We will think about it later.
idea: the queen can use the "nest" ability on any tech building, the queen dissappears into the building and dies if the building dies, the units attributed to that tech building gets reduced buildtime and that building upgrades stuff faster, the units attributed to the building may or may not get stat bonuses as long as the queen is in the building. some upgrades may or may not require a queen to nest in it. the queen can exit the building at any time. you may or may not be able to build more than X queens, queens nesting in hatcheries cause the hatchery to produce larvae faster.
as for zerg macro mechanics, im pretty dry on ideas right now so I'll leave it at that.
Its not idea for macro mechanic. Same as before.
Now i dont have much time to write so i will add my ideas in few hours.
Dont give up yet guys, we are still working, and Kabel "modified" it so we will have it avalible on other maps too soon!
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These are very intuitive changes, it's great to see this kind of diligence being put into mods rather than just mashing everything together and seeing what sticks, hope you can have it on NA or SEA some time in the future  .
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Im gonna publish this as a mod now. But I am having troubles to get it to work!
I have created my MOD and put in d:/games/starcraft2/mods. I have published it on battlen.net.
In the editor it can be choosen as a dependencie. I open a regular map, add my mod as a dependencie, save and click on publish.
This message appears: "docuement dependency does not specifiy a battle.net file" (Mods/Starbow etc)
So if I add my dependencie to a map like Tal Darim Altar, I want to upload it with my mod - stuff in it. But that error message prevents me from doing so.
I have published the MOD - file since Battle.net said it was published. (Starbow.sc2Mod)
Why can I not publish a melee map with my dependencies in it?
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I have an idea (that could help current SC2, not just yours, but you are more likely to update it).
Science Vessel (or Raven in SC2) can be produced on Non-Tech Lab Starports(Also reactors), but you require Fusion Core.
Also I think having medivac is much more intersting that having medics + dropships. It enables a lot of mobility. Right now, there's no need to create dropships, they just eat supply and deal no direct damage.
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why banelings and lurker? they both are good vs groups of light units or did you change their attacks?
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I prefer lurkers over banelings -- because they don't die --
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Looks fun, but... I doubt it would be very well balanced lol 
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There were lots of changes, and things on first page are not even close to current state of mod ^^.
There are no banelings, as they had same role as lurkers.
There are also goliaths insteed of thors (as thors are just terrible, and goliaths are not bad, but temporary solution i guess).
There are no forcefields, colosus was changed (it shots very slow but powerfull aoe atacks, which in teory can be partially avoid by spreading units, requires tweaking still). Toss gate units are much stronger (no direct counter vs zealot, roach), dragoon instead of stalker early on, but warpgate is twilight tech (also temporary solution). Queens are not main producting facilities for zerg. Chrono and mule was nerfed (also to balance larvae inject nerf). Terran can build rax before suply ^^. Tanks are stronger vs toss.
Still lots of changes are required to make this mod complete and playble. We to fit units into roles, balance or change lots of things (smart BW scourges are quite op ^^). Warpgate, macro for zerg, role for roach, scourge or no scourge, goliath and viking or something else (as they have similar role now). If you are curious how that map works then you can try it! There are still lots of bugs but map is playble (ofcourse not balanced). Just search for Starbow (only EU server unfortunetly for now) or write to me or Kabel.
-Edit-
Wow! So we got finally "modyfied". Starbow now avalible on shattered temple and xel naga caverns!
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Some thoughts on some of the concerns for this mod.
Banelings:
They are really an interesting unit, and they do in fact not fill the exact same role as lurkers. They could be modified slightly to be more like BW infested terrans. That is, greater cost, greater damage a bit more health and a tad smaller splash. This will give a niche unit that still has interesting uses (like current reaper).
Scourges:
They can be a very tricky unit to implement. Small vision range is crutial to make them more reasonable, but they also need a speed that allows them to intercept, but not chase easily. Damage numbers are rather intuitive to balance, also giving them an attack delay (0.2 sec) or a cumbersome turning speed might make it harder for them to connect.
Goliaths:
The main strength of goiliaths was their range and the fact that they hit slow but hard. In BW they were a somewhat micro friendly unit due to being microed like marauders (stutter step). Make sure the attack speed is slowish, range is good and damage is high vs all air (slight bonus to armored?)
Vikings fill the same role atm, but terrans need a way to secure air control without committing to heavy air themselves. Maybe replace them with valks (possibly a hybrid)? Maybe make them faster with shorter range?
Zerg Macro:
All three macro mechanics in SC2 has one prime purpose, and some secondary purposes. Prime purpose for all three is MORE WORKERS. Secondary for terran is map vision and supply increase. For protoss its faster tech and increased production. For current zerg its faster production and map control.
I actually like the idea of inject larvae, but it may need some changes. One obvious change is to make the energy cost greater than the energy regeneration. making it more a decision, and also makes creeptumors a very interesting choise, like scans are for terran. This leaves the problem of building multiple queens to overcome the macro limitations, but why not make some of the limitations on the hatch instead? eg. make injects impossible when there are 3 or more larvae/eggs. Make all the macro be on the hatch (spawn extra larvae and spawn creeptumor?), or make the hatch have some kind of energy bar. Or just accept that multiple queens then are a desirable thing, but maybe the benifit of two queens is only 50% increase from one queen.
Under all circumstances the main purpose of a new macro mechanic should be an increase in workers, as this will be consistent with the other races.
Collosus:
WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE REAVER?
ahem... seriously, the reaver was a better unit because it had so many interesting purposes. It was a strong damage dealer in engagements (like the colossus), it was a great harrasment unit (protoss kinda lacks this atm), lategame it was the only unit that provided good space control (Protos has none atm). A unit like the colossus cannot fill these roles properly. It can easily fill the role of damage support unit, and the aoe attack can be modified to make it decent harassment too. But nomatter the tweaks you make, the colossus can never really fill the role of space controll unit. The protoss needs a unit like the tank or the lurker, that can hold positions against small attacks. The colossus has too many gimmicks and wierd mechanics on it to fill this role without being massively overpowered.
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My suggestions in regards to the colossus' bad design and the phoenix's problem with mutas are the following:
-Give the phoenix it's overload ability it had pre-beta. I believe it would be a better alternative to simply giving it splash damage because it would make the unit more interesting, more micro intensive and overall raise the skill ceiling.
-Make the colossus range 8 with thermal, same speed as thor and same cost as carrier yet still the same damage as in WoL. The reason for these changes is to prevent the colossus from being that sledge hammer pure DPS unit that you just use to A move without any micro. This would make colossus more vulnerable and more risky to use without proper preparation(ex: Warp prism). And yes, the colossus would be more vulnerable to air, but if you pair this nerfed colossus with warp prisms for mobility and pheonixes with their overload abilities for defense against masses of AA, you get extremely intense potential for micro on both sides while evening out the risk/reward factor from using colossus. This would also make it so that colossus are still defeatable even without anti-air while simultaneously making it still viable when anti-air comes into play. This would even out the current problem where you either have colossus, they have no anti-air and they're viable, or they have anti-air and colossus aren't viable.
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if u want to make a better game at least remove overseer ...
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banelings have the ablilty to leave a trail of acid that will damage enemy units that walk over it, the acid is used at the cost of baneling life at 5 per second dropping the acid and the acid will disappear over the course of 20 seconds. (Can use multiple banelings to create a sea of acid but will cause banelings to become very weak and easy to kill untill they regain their HP).
Good? Imba? Useless?
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On February 04 2012 05:24 Danko__ wrote:
Toss gate units are much stronger (no direct counter vs zealot, roach), dragoon instead of stalker early on
Just a quick question? How powerful is a proxy 2-gate?
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On February 04 2012 15:38 Jacob666 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 05:24 Danko__ wrote:
Toss gate units are much stronger (no direct counter vs zealot, roach), dragoon instead of stalker early on Just a quick question? How powerful is a proxy 2-gate?
Tested. In older version, it pwned everything... however now, after chronoboost nerfs and zealot build time nerf, it doesn't do as good.
PS: Replace that colossus with my warbringer, omg. Warbringer is high skill unit, profits from zealot support, however shuts down advantages of zealot mobility.
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Zaphod Beeblebrox:
Banelings:
They are really an interesting unit, and they do in fact not fill the exact same role as lurkers. They could be modified slightly to be more like BW infested terrans. That is, greater cost, greater damage a bit more health and a tad smaller splash. This will give a niche unit that still has interesting uses (like current reaper).
But also infested terrans were hard to get and were pretty dumb :p (ai wise). Imagine banelings rain with stronger banes. They atack instntly, dont kill eachother with splash cose they are jumping one by one. Maybe if ovies with banes would have some kind of "warning" on them when they carry banes. That would make banes quite different role, i agree, but we gotta think it well first.
Scourges:
They can be a very tricky unit to implement. Small vision range is crutial to make them more reasonable, but they also need a speed that allows them to intercept, but not chase easily. Damage numbers are rather intuitive to balance, also giving them an attack delay (0.2 sec) or a cumbersome turning speed might make it harder for them to connect.
I was thinking about making them aply stacking DoT on opponents (lasting like 0,5 sec), so they can all hit one enemy if you wont control them well. But nothing yet was done this way. For now they are quite fast (i think 3,37, slower then mutas, phoenix, same speed as warpprism with up), have INSANE acceleration, so if opponent is not careful they can kill him easly.
Goliaths:
The main strength of goiliaths was their range and the fact that they hit slow but hard. In BW they were a somewhat micro friendly unit due to being microed like marauders (stutter step). Make sure the attack speed is slowish, range is good and damage is high vs all air (slight bonus to armored?)
Vikings fill the same role atm, but terrans need a way to secure air control without committing to heavy air themselves. Maybe replace them with valks (possibly a hybrid)? Maybe make them faster with shorter range?
I was thinking about replacing Vikings with wrights ^^. Fast, with quite low range. Imho would be much more interesting to see them trying to snipe enemy units avoiding AA. And also cloak banshees + cloak wrights combo ^^.
Collosus:
WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE REAVER?
ahem... seriously, the reaver was a better unit because it had so many interesting purposes. It was a strong damage dealer in engagements (like the colossus), it was a great harrasment unit (protoss kinda lacks this atm), lategame it was the only unit that provided good space control (Protos has none atm). A unit like the colossus cannot fill these roles properly. It can easily fill the role of damage support unit, and the aoe attack can be modified to make it decent harassment too. But nomatter the tweaks you make, the colossus can never really fill the role of space controll unit. The protoss needs a unit like the tank or the lurker, that can hold positions against small attacks. The colossus has too many gimmicks and wierd mechanics on it to fill this role without being massively overpowered.
Nothing was wrong with reaver. It was super cool unit with great potential in good hands. But there is SC2BW already and we dont want this mod to turn into its copy.
Also i think you should try first how does our colo work before criticizing. He is really INSANE harrasing tool right now
Shintuku:
My suggestions in regards to the colossus' bad design and the phoenix's problem with mutas are the following:
-Give the phoenix it's overload ability it had pre-beta. I believe it would be a better alternative to simply giving it splash damage because it would make the unit more interesting, more micro intensive and overall raise the skill ceiling.
Im not sure how that overload was micro intensive. Wasnt that just ability which made phoenix atack everyone at range, couldnt move, and disable after using? Whats micro intensive about hoping enemy will stay in range?
I hope that giving splash to phoenixes will give them ability to fight mutas in lategame, while not making them op in stargate opening early. Also i think with well thought design we can make phoenix, scourge, muta battles very interesting. And im aware of that now its quite in bad shape
-Make the colossus range 8 with thermal, same speed as thor and same cost as carrier yet still the same damage as in WoL. The reason for these changes is to prevent the colossus from being that sledge hammer pure DPS unit that you just use to A move without any micro. This would make colossus more vulnerable and more risky to use without proper preparation(ex: Warp prism). And yes, the colossus would be more vulnerable to air, but if you pair this nerfed colossus with warp prisms for mobility and pheonixes with their overload abilities for defense against masses of AA, you get extremely intense potential for micro on both sides while evening out the risk/reward factor from using colossus. This would also make it so that colossus are still defeatable even without anti-air while simultaneously making it still viable when anti-air comes into play. This would even out the current problem where you either have colossus, they have no anti-air and they're viable, or they have anti-air and colossus aren't viable.
Yeah, i would love to see phoenix/warpprism+colo style of play ^^. And for now our colo would fit even better then "standard" colo i think.
atwar:
if u want to make a better game at least remove overseer ...
Im considering it.
Jacob666
banelings have the ablilty to leave a trail of acid that will damage enemy units that walk over it, the acid is used at the cost of baneling life at 5 per second dropping the acid and the acid will disappear over the course of 20 seconds. (Can use multiple banelings to create a sea of acid but will cause banelings to become very weak and easy to kill untill they regain their HP).
Good? Imba? Useless?
I dont know. And i was thinking about giving similar ability to roach (and cliff walking as well ^^). That would give some more space contol to zerg (terran pushes? he has to wait till acid duration ends or he will be weakened at engagement), and also dropping some acid on mineral line? Stop mining or loose workers!
Just a quick question? How powerful is a proxy 2-gate?
Not more powerfull then normal proxy 2-gate i think ^^. Toss have bit more usefull workers in fights (little range, which also makes them bit easier to micro), terran can just wall of or even use his beefy 60hp workers. And also spines build bit faster and lings are tiny bit stronger (to balance lack of queen early). But still it can be deadly, but 6pool or 2 RAX BEFORE SUPPLY is as well :d
If you want to try it guys, just write to me. Dont be shy! We need you not only to theorycraft but to testing as well. My bnet nick is: Danko.616
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EPT
