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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On September 12 2013 11:43 Foxxan wrote: When we played around in unit tester, he sometimes turn his firecannon the way he is walking. Ah! I know what you mean. What I could do is make the turret spin much faster to where its not an issue. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On September 12 2013 12:40 decemberscalm wrote: Ah! I know what you mean. What I could do is make the turret spin much faster to where its not an issue. My only concern if this gets fixed is he have two cannons, its a nerf if to him since armor reduces 1x2. Wouldnt it look silly if the damage he do is x1, but everyone can see he have two cannons | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On September 12 2013 12:45 Foxxan wrote: My only concern if this gets fixed is he have two cannons, its a nerf if to him since armor reduces 1x2. Wouldnt it look silly if the damage he do is x1, but everyone can see he have two cannons I would not be heart broken about it. It is deciding between: -Immortal model looks proper in 3d but shoots two projectiles -Dragoon model looks odd in 3d because it does not angle itself down to attack with its cannon + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/f/ff/Dragoon_SC1_CineAmbush1.jpg) | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
It is not a bug, it is a feature!!!! (Literally) | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
Vikings uses Lanzer Torpedoes. It is super effective! 12 mutas fainted! I think Terran will be fine, if they just rememper they got vikings too. They were made to be more accessible anti-muta tech through not as versatile as SVs. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
The aspect of SC2 and Starbow air units that feels inherently anti-micro to me, is the fact that as soon as units start overlapping even the slightest, they completely lose their ability to glide. You can try this by taking 4 vikings, let the de-stacking separate them perfectly, and fire a shot backwards/sideways while in range of your target. The vikings will continue to glide in the direction they were previously heading while firing. But as soon as you start stacking them a bit, and attempt to fire a shot sideways/backwards while in range of the target -- they will just stop completely dead in their tracks. De-stacking behavior takes precedence over gliding in SC2 engine. If air units overlap while firing, those air units that overlap are forced to first de-stack before they are allowed to glide again. You might have seen this in pro SC2 games. Viking micro vs colossus is the most evident. When players fire backwards while the vikings are de-stacked, the vikings continue gliding away from the colossus. But when the terran player stacks them up and fires backwards, they just stop at the spot they were ordered to attack from. It is not usually evident when the air units are travelling or facing the target they are firing at (like 95% of the shots performed in december's video). Because if the units face the target, you don't have to wait for the turn speed in addition to the air units firing. But when the stacked air units do not face the target they are firing at, you have to wait for TURN SPEED + FIRE before the air units respond to your commands again. Somehow MavercK managed to override de-stacking taking precedence over gliding in SC2BW. I think you should explore that. In Decembers video, corsairs were the only unit I saw that performed the gliding shot reliably. I don't know whether it was because they were perfectly separated, or because december transferrred something from SC2BW =) | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On September 12 2013 22:26 LaLuSh wrote: As I wrote December in a private PM. The aspect of SC2 and Starbow air units that feels inherently anti-micro to me, is the fact that as soon as units start overlapping even the slightest, they completely lose their ability to glide. You can try this by taking 4 vikings, let the de-stacking separate them perfectly, and fire a shot backwards/sideways while in range of your target. The vikings will continue to glide in the direction they were previously heading while firing. But as soon as you start stacking them a bit, and attempt to fire a shot sideways/backwards while in range of the target -- they will just stop completely dead in their tracks. De-stacking behavior takes precedence over gliding in SC2 engine. If air units overlap while firing, those air units that overlap are forced to first de-stack before they are allowed to glide again. You might have seen this in pro SC2 games. Viking micro vs colossus is the most evident. When players fire backwards while the vikings are de-stacked, the vikings continue gliding away from the colossus. But when the terran player stacks them up and fires backwards, they just stop at the spot they were ordered to attack from. It is not usually evident when the air units are travelling or facing the target they are firing at (like 95% of the shots performed in december's video). Because if the units face the target, you don't have to wait for the turn speed in addition to the air units firing. But when the stacked air units do not face the target they are firing at, you have to wait for TURN SPEED + FIRE before the air units respond to your commands again. Somehow MavercK managed to override de-stacking taking precedence over gliding in SC2BW. I think you should explore that. In Decembers video, corsairs were the only unit I saw that performed the gliding shot reliably. I don't know whether it was because they were perfectly separated, or because december transferrred something from SC2BW =) In pretty much ever small way Blizz built this engine it is incredibly anti micro. I replicated your findings. Default mutas but intentionally trying to stack them up, trying to do a moving shot and yes they don't glide. They just stop dead in place. However, with clustered mutalisks they take maybe .1 seconds to completely unstack if they accidentally become stacked. They did a gliding shot every single time. This is with a small tweak to the weapons random delay to make sure all mutalisks fire in synch which is the only discrepancy between corsairs I could find. I've built a data based method for air unit separation before, but I am going to see first if it is actually a problem in game.It did not seem to be a problem when I tested to see if Stacked mutas were dead stopping when micro'ing. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
When do we get stalker/immo/dragoon fixed? BUG: reaper autoattack, no sound reaper just got buffed btw, he now uses x1 attack instead of x2 also 10 5 2.5 x1 5 2.5 1.25 x2 instead? | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Any update yet? When do we get stalker/immo/dragoon fixed? XiA helped me to add it yesterday evening. (Thanks Xia!) So I upload it now. - Dragoon added. (So we get core BW balance) - Stalker slightly reworked and requires Twilight Council. If better ideas come up in the future, we might be able to do something more fun and interesting with the Stalker. As long as it fullfills some kind of need for Protoss. Hopefully there are no Dragoon bugs. (I checked for them real quick now and everything seems to work ok with upgrades and everything) I will not be online today/tonight due to work. But if anything needs to be emergency fixed, I will do it on saturday day. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
The dragoon costs 250/100, everything else seemed to be in order. Siegetank BT is 44 seconds, Dragoon should be the same as siega tank. He is 45 now. also i forgot to add: factory 200/100 instead of 150/100 | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On September 13 2013 15:56 Foxxan wrote: @kabel The dragoon costs 250/100, everything else seemed to be in order. Siegetank BT is 44 seconds, Dragoon should be the same as siega tank. He is 45 now. also i forgot to add: factory 200/100 instead of 150/100 What? Dragoon cost 125/50 in BW (newest patch), or are we discussing something I am missing here... | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On September 13 2013 17:23 Xiphias wrote: What? Dragoon cost 125/50 in BW (newest patch), or are we discussing something I am missing here... what is it you dont understand excactly? everything else seemed to be in order | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Ok just to be clear now The dragoon costs 250/100, everything else seemed to be in order I stated, the dragoon costs right now 250/100, and after that sentence i wrote "Everything else seemed to be in order" which means that the 250/100 is wrong value and that i didnt see anything else which was wrong, until i saw the BT which was one second wrong. You understand now? No, not the siegetank, the dragoon. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
So I upload a patch that fixes the double cost for Dragoons! They now cost 125/50. (As BW) Factory cost 200/100. (As BW) Guess this is the end of my immortal and stalker drops:-( Do Dragoon and Stalker drops instead. ^^ Basically this is almost as the Immortal and Stalker at the Gateway anyway. But with the Dragoon we get closer to the BW balance, which I just think is easier. Now we have more room to do something with the Stalker. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
EDIT: would it be possible to let some new spells, tweak to any unit up on a unittester? Could be great to get a feeling for it, and perhaps even practice against a decent opponent to see how it works out. Much better than just 100% theory and implement directly into the real game. Comment? More bw values ultras 20 damage Lurkers 125hp 20damage marines 40hp dropship 100/100 min/gas observer 40hp 20shield Warpprism 200 minerals - 80/60 hp/shield around 54~ BT. Its 34 now so its quite big this. Also the movespeed is quite big. Reaver 200/100 min/gas range 8, and make his damage upgrade not effect the radius? Scienve vessel - emp 100mana Cybernatics core 200min lurker den 200/200 min/gas viper 100/100 min/gas 2supply hydra range 150/150 min/gas Protoss shield: Work in progress? Dragoon dont take full damagae now. The corsair donteither, iam taking it as work in progress Overlords - without detection, quite big nerf to zerg Overlord drop upg - 200/200 Note: Zerg can only upgrade overlords on lair or hive upgrades Cannon shoot equal as zealot attack speed archon shoots slightly faster than those Viking/valkyrie is 250/125 min/gas and requires techlab on starport+armory. I wrote this earlier, i dont know if u forgot or dont wanna change it atm. Right now it deflects mutas very easy because you get it faster, and cheaper and it attack much better here at the same time Spidermines need to hit stealth units now.Dec! bugs Spidermines. Three spidermines just hit a dragoon, it did only damage from one | ||
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