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Yeah there are some more units who could need the switch effects vs shield:
(If we want the shield bonus system to be consistent for all units)
- Marauder with both weapons
- Reaper
- Goliath vs air
- Potentially Banshee, depending on what values it ends up with
- Baneling
- Devourer?
- Stalker
- Scout
- Corsair
- Reaver?
- Null ward?
- Potentially Archon, depending on what values it ends up with
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Especially Banelings could be quite cool - use them to efficiently drain the shields of enemy Armored Protoss units, so Hydras can do the damage to the actual life. But the Banelings themselfs are bad vs the actual HP of Armored units.
But this is a lot of work. If you want, I can try to do some of it. (I just build exactly how you have built it and hopefully there will be no flaws.)
I have currently fixed two bugs btw:
- Marauder flame weapon now deals splash to enemy ground units only. (Eearlier it even killed projectiles :p)
- Irradiate does not affect clumps of burrowed units, as in BW. (Only 1 burrowed unit) Also fixed some bugs in the target filter.
Working on some more
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You should just get on skype for any questions ^^. So much easier.
One thing to note is that it works differently for both AOE and shots that do more damage than a unit has shields.
I tried explaining a little bit of it to you before.
Split banes to drain shields would be awesome!
They are so underwhelming vs zealots in the first place, it might give them actual utility.
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You should just get on skype for any questions ^^. So much easier.
One thing to note is that it works differently for both AOE and shots that do more damage than a unit has shields.
I tried explaining a little bit of it to you before.
I feel so naked without a microphone :<
It there more to the switch effects than what meets the eye?
Maybe it is best I leave that area to you so it works properly
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On September 10 2013 23:13 Kabel wrote:Show nested quote +You should just get on skype for any questions ^^. So much easier.
One thing to note is that it works differently for both AOE and shots that do more damage than a unit has shields.
I tried explaining a little bit of it to you before. I feel so naked without a microphone :< It there more to the switch effects than what meets the eye? Maybe it is best I leave that area to you so it works properly
I'll send you a pm because this is all just editor speak
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Kabel, if you plan to stay with Stalker + Immortal, I could do some editor regarding blink, so I perhaps can come up with a approach on how to quantifiy the value of this ability.
It could probably make future balancing easier as well.
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I plan to use the solution that makes most sense in terms of not destroying the BW balance. And adds the most to the gameplay.
I think both the "Stalker & Immortal at Gateway" and "Dragoon + a potential specialist higher tech Stalker" solutions are potentially good. There are some advantages and some disadvantages with each. But each one requires more details.
Exactly shall the Stalker + Immortal values be? (So they fit with BW damage system also)
Exactly how shall a potential higher tech Stalker be together with the Dragoon?
If you want to do dig deeper into it, please do so!
This is such an important area of the game - the basic Protoss ranged attacker.
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Immortal= 1.1 a dragoon
So it is actually slightly buffer, but not so much its like you've got a tiny extra dragoon firing from each immortal
Attacks up
Damage=1.1*goon
so 22 damage explosive
Stalker
Slightly cheaper.
10 damage "plasma" as me and johnny have been thinking. Obviously it could use a different name.
7.5 damage to medium
5 damage to large.
A little faster rate of fire.
With its generally superior speed and mobility, you can skirmish enemy troops really well but that itself won't kill entire armies. In combat you would want to keep it behind some sort of meat shield where it can provide very nice fire support.
Just a rough idea of immortal/stalker in my head.
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Dunno how you would balance immortal + stalker if u try to balance their damage total wise
Right now with dragoon, he is good against vultures and siegetanks.
If you need both stalker and immortal for this, how on earth would it be balanced?
As soon as you build a dragoon in bw, you match macro in terran.
When u build zealot, you match terran in macro.
If u have to build two units for the same value as dragoon, how can it possible ever be balanced
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On September 11 2013 01:28 Foxxan wrote:
Dunno how you would balance immortal + stalker if u try to balance their damage total wise
Right now with dragoon, he is good against vultures and siegetanks.
If you need both stalker and immortal for this, how on earth would it be balanced?
As soon as you build a dragoon in bw, you match macro in terran.
When u build zealot, you match terran in macro.
If u have to build two units for the same value as dragoon, how can it possible ever be balanced
He means a mixture of.
So something like 4 immortal, 2 stalker=6 goon, or 5 immortal 3 stalker =8 goon.
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Question, where can I find and play the most up to date version of starbow on NA? The latest version I could find in the arcade was 1.7.
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On September 11 2013 02:19 Phoobie wrote:
Question, where can I find and play the most up to date version of starbow on NA? The latest version I could find in the arcade was 1.7.
All of them published by me are up to date.
The version number on each map you see do not correspond to the version of the mod, only the version of the map.
If you can bare the latency, EU usually has at least 3-4 people on every day at various times.
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Bug fixes uploaded.
No solution to the Stalker/Immortal stats yet.
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On September 10 2013 23:33 decemberscalm wrote:
Immortal= 1.1 a dragoon
So it is actually slightly buffer, but not so much its like you've got a tiny extra dragoon firing from each immortal
Attacks up
Damage=1.1*goon
so 22 damage explosive
Stalker
Slightly cheaper.
10 damage "plasma" as me and johnny have been thinking. Obviously it could use a different name.
7.5 damage to medium
5 damage to large.
A little faster rate of fire.
With its generally superior speed and mobility, you can skirmish enemy troops really well but that itself won't kill entire armies. In combat you would want to keep it behind some sort of meat shield where it can provide very nice fire support.
Just a rough idea of immortal/stalker in my head.
Currently kabel would like stalker good vs light and medium units. I thought it was better if stalker deal 8x2 damage vs light and medium, but only 50% vs armored units. Why 8x2? this number is very nice to make upgrades more interesting:
Vulture has 80 hp = dies in 5 hits, 6 if has 1 armor.
Hydralisk has 80 hp = dies in 6 hits because of the regeneration, 5 hits if stalker has +1 attack.
Marine has 45 hp = dies in 3 hits, 4 if has 1 armor.
Zergling has 35 hp = dies in 3 hits, 2 if stalker has +1 attack.
The type of weapon could be called plasma, but in this case the values are:
100% vs light
100% vs medium
50% (or 75%) vs armored
Kabel, what you think of this?
Edit: i have published this stalker on unit test map called "Starbow Stalker plasma".
I have make this stalker as medium armor type. I could not do this stalker, deal the 100% damage to shields.
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Me and Danko had a similar concept.
Separate stalker, and then a dragoon.
Danko version:
Slow startup for attack
Very fast attack speed
Low CD on blink
You are rewarded for blinking at the last second and absorbing shield fire for maximum dps.
My version:
Twilight council
Fast attack speed
Blink starts unlocked
We both want to see a stalker that is OBVIOUSLY a different unit.
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I have fix damage that stalker deal to shields. This stalker seem work. I'm working to make it even more exciting this stalker.
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My version:
Twilight council
Fast attack speed
Blink starts unlocked
You are not scared the blinkplay will be to powerful?
The stalker has very low amount of health?
Have you considder another combat ability,which is abit more "balanced" and "fun" for the opponent
EDIT: new patch up?
immortal damage values changed, he still move slow as hell
EDIT: there still some things which isnt correct, when should i point them out
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WIll next patch also attempt to balance Breed? Could use a (big) buff I believe.
Nerve Jammer is probably also a bit UP in most situations. Still usefull vs Lurkers and Tanks though, but I think it could benefit from an increased duration now that it also removes friendly attacks. I suggest a duration buff from 12 to 16-20 seconds.
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@ Specialist/reaper'ish Stalker
The problem I see with this idea is that it will be much harder to work in practice than one could believe from a quick thereotical POV.
First of all, how is the Stalker gonna do anything vs a mech army with tanks spread out all over the map?
Then what about vs zerg? Isn't blink stalker harass easily defended by static defenses or simply pure lings mobility? How can we design the stats in such a way that it will be usefull for harass vs zerg without being OP in other situations?
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I agree with hider.
To implement new units/stuff into a game, you need to first have the basics. From there, you ask yourself "what does this race miss/want to encourage gameplay".
You also need to know the race well, maybe even very well.
And to be well known how each race functions against x race. Matchups
Its so easy to think of a new unit/ability that is x unit version two
"for zerg what would be cool. A unit that can move while burrowed"
1) Nothing in the game has this
2) it fits zerg
And from there, you think further.
"What is the purpose of this unit"
"what role should he have"
"What does it encourage for zerg, and for opponent"
"what mu should he be better in, and what mu worse"
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Well. We don't have to make blink stalkers useful vs mech at all, protoss as other tools for that.
But I do raise the same concern. It will be difficult to make a very mobile unit which is both not UP nor OP. Just look at the reaper. Too much speed/dps = OP, nerf it slightly and it suddenly almost becomes UP.
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EPT
