EPTWIth a new economy
and the sc2 pathing incoming (just for testing) (Which hasnt been played with for very long time)
changes as to the lurker is pretty unnceccessary
[A] Starbow - Page 363
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
WIth a new economy and the sc2 pathing incoming (just for testing) (Which hasnt been played with for very long time) changes as to the lurker is pretty unnceccessary | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Units when idle spread out a little bit at a time while they have no orders. When you give them orders again they stay in formation as long as they are in the magic box. This avoids the rear guard being slowed, gives you the option to forcibly clump your units (this was extremely hard to do in BW), but has the default formation of units be spread out. It doesn't fix a host of other issues that the current system does though, but it is something quite interesting. As for the old movement system we are using. It is quite a predicament. The harder we hurt auto surround, the less smooth and responsive the pathing becomes. Last implementation it would slow down units to 70% speed, so auto surround really wasn't hurt much at all. It did make units suffer much less when trying to kite though. I think it is my current favorite of what we've played with so far but having any flaws at all makes me unhappy and unsatisfied. I am thinking a better solution for auto surround is to do things like decrease movement speed, make units perform their attacks slower (like BW), decrease attack speeds. Things that would give you more time to micro individual units, make them more micro able. I'm not convinced the pathing system will give us satisfying basic micro like zealots vs hydras or even zealots vs other melee units. @Zaphod Waiting one second for the pathing system to kick in only delays the rear units being slowed down. It doesn't get rid of that flaw. It would somewhat alleviate it when you try to kite though! I think its worth a shot. Good thinking. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
 ) on:www.twitch.tv/SC2_Starbow I should get online about 8:30 pm or so. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Everything is not fixed yet that I would like to fix. XiA will help me in a couple of days again when he has more time. Atm we now have: - 100% normal SC2 pathing (try how it feels) - lot of bug fixes and improvements you will probably not notice ^^ - 10% speed & time reduction. (Not 15-25% like we had earlier due to a misstake by me) The economy system is still the same. Null wards have not been properly reworked yet. The speed reduction system needs to be improved further. But instead of letting the maps be down for some additional days, I might as well upload them again so we can do some more play testing. Anyone up for some games tonight? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
anyone online?? | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
Maybe that's just me but wouldn't that be simply swell? Assuming that the rules will never be changed and working within a system is fun (as long as the system isn't overwhelmingly and inherently broken). | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On August 22 2013 08:45 Azelja wrote: I just really wish people would put more emphasize on "what can I do given the current state of the game" and less on "how can I change the state of the game to make what I do work". Maybe that's just me but wouldn't that be simply swell? Assuming that the rules will never be changed and working within a system is fun (as long as the system isn't overwhelmingly and inherently broken). Maybe cus its not fun playing against hero-units like the reaver? It is currently broken because it was rebuffed at the same time as protoss early game and warp prism was buffed as well. At the moment it has no real role aside from a dominate most ground units in an absolutely ridiclous way which rewards 1-second micro (basically which was everything sbow shouldn't be about). What do you think would have happened if blizzard had applied that logic back in WOL beta? | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
It already does different damage vs different targets and the cost has been incrased a lot. Heck, even the damage upgrade cost has been increased and BT increased. If it needs to be more easy to micro against, I can just reduce the scarab move speed. Is it really that OP? | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
a slower reaver and a slightly faster projectile for shock would be great. There likely is a small imbalance though about the toss earlygame against zerg, on the other hand tanks have crazy dps unsieged so imo it doesn't affect much in tvp unless going full bio. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
A slower scarab move would also be in good place, while at the same time looking at the upgrade, it increases the radius atm. Maybe remove it completely? Also, i agree it should move slower(the reaver), like 0.6 or maybe even 0.3(?) | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On August 23 2013 03:23 Kabel wrote: What is the problem with Reaver? It already does different damage vs different targets and the cost has been incrased a lot. Heck, even the damage upgrade cost has been increased and BT increased. If it needs to be more easy to micro against, I can just reduce the scarab move speed. Is it really that OP? its a hero unit. it basically can't die if you just baby sit, and it can kill so much stuff so fast. it lets protoss dominate the game extremely fast (from 10 minute mark or so on) in all matchups. It also it dominates immortals. imo it is really flawed. upgrade cost doesn't really matter that much. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Smaller supply, smaller cost, not op damage. My thinking is that PvP is always blob vs blob as it was in BW because the best composition of Toss units and the best strategy for using them revolves around just using a big mobile strong force. There is no contrast between fast mobile forces that can maneuver and get map control. Everything in the Toss arsenal is just too fast (including warp prism reaver). This makes it so you warp prism reavers for a little bit of added support, but getting the same amount of reaver firepower out on the map is way harder. Then you've actually got a slow immobile but really powerful unit like the siege tank/lurker for actually holding territory. You can still go 1 ball of stalker/immortal/reaver blob vs another, but the stalkers and immortals can move out on the map seperate of reavers and actually get stuff done by outmaneuvering. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
On August 23 2013 04:34 Hider wrote: its a hero unit. it basically can't die if you just baby sit, and it can kill so much stuff so fast. also it dominates immortals. imo it is really flawed. upgrade cost doesn't really matter that much. T: mech doesn't have a problem with reavers bio-player can: -make a squad of vikings (they are still fast and once the warp prism is taken out then dealing with the reavers isn't hard) -focus on pulling away targeted units -use shock when P is distracted or in combination with taking down the warp prism -use pre-emptive nerve jammers where the warp prism is going during battles imo these are enough options given we originally didn't want bio to be viable all game long vs protoss as hots pvt is fucking shit. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
On August 23 2013 04:41 decemberscalm wrote: I was talking to xiphias and when thinking about a way to make pvp better suggested a mini reaver instead. Smaller supply, smaller cost, not op damage. My thinking is that PvP is always blob vs blob as it was in BW because the best composition of Toss units and the best strategy for using them revolves around just using a big mobile strong force. There is no contrast between fast mobile forces that can maneuver and get map control. Everything in the Toss arsenal is just too fast (including warp prism reaver). This makes it so you warp prism reavers for a little bit of added support, but getting the same amount of reaver firepower out on the map is way harder. Then you've actually got a slow immobile but really powerful unit like the siege tank/lurker for actually holding territory. You can still go 1 ball of stalker/immortal/reaver blob vs another, but the stalkers and immortals can move out on the map seperate of reavers and actually get stuff done by outmaneuvering. PvP is too unexplored to conclude that stalker/reaver is the only way to go imo. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
And if I understand you correctly Hider, this is your concern. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Any thoughts about the attacksystem? People didnt like the bw attacksystem? you said you tried it but people disliked it? Not sure what you mean with the BW attack system. That units shall stand still for 0.5 seconds before they attack? I did try that on some units a while ago. I did not think it felt good. #kabel Why u felt it did not feel good? In sc2bw, it feels great with the hydralisk and dragoon imo | ||
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