|
Ok, here's something that might work.
Reduce the immortal movement speed to something simular like the reaver and make hardened shields a passive ability that gets activated once the immortal gets attacked, duration of 1-2 seconds and a cooldown of 3-4 seconds, tune it how you want.
This way you'd make it a babysit unit that can be very usefull, but counterable by pure mech, trying to snipe the warpprism out of the air and timing a focustarget on the immortal with siegetanks.
This sounds like a cool dynamic, huge nerf without making it useless, it will still be a valuable unit in good hands.
|
Russian Federation42 Posts
http://drop.sc/275091 - here good game Johnyzerg vs Letrus, great example of using air in PvT (no IMMOS no Reavers no standard stuff). Enjoy!!!
|
|
|
Russian Federation42 Posts
|
Been readin the thread on deathballs over in the hots forum I see.
|
|
|
Immortal Idea, give it a shield-costing ability:
1. Example, give it Guardian Shield.
2. But, instead of costing energy, the ability uses shield points.
3. If the Guardian Shield is off, Immortal attack is weak but it has good defense (Still has Hardened Shields).
4. If the Guardian Shield is activated, Immortal attack is strong/normal but has a shield penalty.
5. If Shileds are depleted, Immortal attack is weak (this part is optional).
6. Guardian Shield buff does not affect the casting Immortal or other Immortals.
7. Or, GS activation might affect Immortal move speed along with a DPS or Range effect. Make it move faster? Slower? Immobile?
Stats are tweaked so that the Immortal becomes a switch-able glass cannon. When GS is not active, its a tanky unit but is not a big threat. When GS pops, it becomes a high priority target.
The Idea is that since it's a shield dependent unit, giving it a shield-costing ability will give it flavor.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 04:02 Don.681 wrote:
Immortal Idea, give it a shield-costing ability:
1. Example, give it Guardian Shield.
2. But, instead of costing energy, the ability uses shield points.
3. If the Guardian Shield is off, Immortal attack is weak but it has good defense (Still has Hardened Shields).
4. If the Guardian Shield is activated, Immortal attack is strong/normal but has a shield penalty.
5. If Shileds are depleted, Immortal attack is weak (this part is optional).
6. Guardian Shield buff does not affect the casting Immortal or other Immortals.
7. Or, GS activation might affect Immortal move speed along with a DPS or Range effect. Make it move faster? Slower? Immobile?
Stats are tweaked so that the Immortal becomes a switch-able glass cannon. When GS is not active, its a tanky unit but is not a big threat. When GS pops, it becomes a high priority target.
The Idea is that since it's a shield dependent unit, giving it a shield costing ability will give it flavor.
One such idea is nice, but the point is:as it can affect the micro player? as makes it difficult to use immortal?
the goal is to make immortal harder to use and maximize its effectiveness when used in the best way
|
At those who suggest an aura-ability, you're trying to reward clumping, doesn't seem too interesting to me.
|
@SolidSMD
Clumping is not bad. A "one" clump death-ball is bad. Aura abilities with a proper AOE size can make small clumps of units more effective.
Multiple clumps scattered across the map is good. Hence #6 for my suggestion above. Stacked Immortals wont be cost effective, but 1 immortal per squad would be. Sort if like a medic for Protoss.
Anyway, the idea is for something that costs shields. It does not have to be GS. Another Example:
1. Ability: Sacrifice Shields.
2. Cast-able ability. Grants Hardened Shields on a unit or building for a short duration.
3. Costs all Immortal Shileds.
4. Immortal must have at least 30 Shield Points to cast.
|
Hm, I do not really like the idea of having an aura on the immortal (or any replacement unit).
Make each shot use shield. It can deal different amounts of damage depending on how much shields it has remaining (think tiers, perhaps), as well as have a minimum amount of damage it can do (i.e. for instances where it has no shields). This makes each shot a lot more important. You do not want to be wasting shots on non-armoured units, for example. However, If you still want to just use the immortal to tank damage, feel free to just move it into the opposing army before the rest of your army.
The tiers thing does not really matter, but the choice between tanking damage versus dealing it is interesting, IMHO. It still can be used lazily, but if the player really manages it well and uses it for specific purposes, its usefulness will only multiply.
Thoughts?
|
SideNote:
@Kabel: See if you can gogo get the community maps Starry_Nights and Amethyst(sp) hooked up with the Starbow MOD! Would love to see more maps for Starbo, as well as help show off some of the mapmaking communtity a bit moar.
Main_Note: +1 to the immortal 'giving' itself and or it's allies hardened shields via single target spell. Maybe the immortal sacrifices its own shields and gives it? Or maybe its just a point and click spell. Either way, so long as it is not the same as it is and not an auto cast or aura like gaurdian shield.
|
Here is a proposition for the immortal, why not turn it into a ground spell caster, reduce its damage to sentry like proportions and allow it to attack air.
Change hardened shields to a cooldown ability that can be manually toggled or autocast with a X second cd. Hardened shields will now disperse any AOE damage or spell cast on the immortal and any units within X range radius of the immortal. This would result in a pretty sweet mechanic where you want to spread immortals throughout your army, but not have that many since their combat damage isn't all that high, or staggering hardened shield casts to keep blocking tank shots or fungals or dark swarms on the group of units. This would also require all aoe spells to be changed into projectiles even storm to allow for the immortal to disperse them.
Since it is changed to a ground spellcaster, you would also have to give it energy and slightly tone down its hp/shields and give it one more spell...though I am not certain as to what other ability to add to it.
Thoughts?
|
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 07:44 PsykoMantis wrote:
Here is a proposition for the immortal, why not turn it into a ground spell caster, reduce its damage to sentry like proportions and allow it to attack air.
Change hardened shields to a cooldown ability that can be manually toggled or autocast with a X second cd. Hardened shields will now disperse any AOE damage or spell cast on the immortal and any units within X range radius of the immortal. This would result in a pretty sweet mechanic where you want to spread immortals throughout your army, but not have that many since their combat damage isn't all that high, or staggering hardened shield casts to keep blocking tank shots or fungals or dark swarms on the group of units. This would also require all aoe spells to be changed into projectiles even storm to allow for the immortal to disperse them.
Since it is changed to a ground spellcaster, you would also have to give it energy and slightly tone down its hp/shields and give it one more spell...though I am not certain as to what other ability to add to it.
Thoughts?
I think the protoss has enough caster. The most used (ht) to the less used (dark archon and arbiter). If you want the best casters, improve those that already exist.
|
Protoss just doesn't need another spellcaster. In my opinion, I think turning the immortal into a situational unit instead of a core unit might be the best way to go about things.
|
After playing more and more PvT I feel more like that Immortal isn't the real problem, its the fact that vulture/tank is just so weak. I'll poke in with stalkers and zealots when I really shouldn't, get a tank kill or something for a zealot and retreat and just regen shields.
I always feel like I need emp in my mech army to emp zealots (especially their +10 shield now x.x). But then I'm splitting gas between tanks and other tech, and also not emp'ing the immortal.
|
As I said a 1 or 2 pages ago. PvT is a problem not because of any one thing. It's about 8 smaller things that all contribute to one big amorphous problem. Trying to fix one of these small problems won't realyl put a dent in the overall issue. It'll take several small changes.
|
On November 14 2012 13:27 decemberscalm wrote:
After playing more and more PvT I feel more like that Immortal isn't the real problem, its the fact that vulture/tank is just so weak.
In bw, protoss shields suffered damage integers. Tank damage 75 explosive, mine 125 damage explosive, vulture 20 damage concursive:
Explosive: 100% large, 75% medium, 50% small
Concursive: 100% small, 50% medium, 25% large
I repeat. Protoss shields, suffered 100% of the damage always, regardless of the opponent's armor. I think that's why tank and vulture feel weak. Currently tank make 35 damage at zea shields, mine make 100 damage at zea-archon shields(ok is a good damage), and vulture make 10 damage at stalker-archon shields. I noticed also that hydra are not as effective vs zea, is for the same reason.
|
Half of these values are not even right, but truth is, shield suffered full damage from every source. While i cant agree about hydras beeing less effective vs zealots (in BW they did 10damage to shields and 4,5damage to health, and now they do 6damage to shields and 5damage to health + shields dont regen in fight), vultures are definitly less effective at taking down stalkers shields, and archons are much tankier. I dont think its possible to get equally clear and easy effect in sc2 mechanic.
|
Can anybody tell me why vulture cost is 100 instead of 75 minerals?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
