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Good ideas so far : )
@Removing Immortal
I will nevah remove it. Just because the robotic bay options feel so naked. Protoss has no mid-game options. They have to tech to reavers, templars, carriers, or stay on early game units
MAYBE I can replace the Immortal. With what?
- Nullifiler.. (Its a model in the editor that looks like a more scary Sentry..)
- Oracle in HoTS? (Its a robotic unit.. Right? RIGHT?!)
- Colossus (Coolest model in the game atleast)
IF I DO replace it, its gotta be a very good replacement. Like a really really good idea. And IF I replace it with the Nullifier, the line-up of spells for Protoss really need a rework.. And new spells needs to be added.. Force Field anyone? : O
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Maybe rework how is hardened shield working? What if it could stop damage only from ranged nonsplash atacks from one choosen direction? Imagine then their interaction with stalkers. Stalkers would try to atack immortal from few angles, and immortal will try to dance trying to have them all always on front/one side. Ofcourse stats will have to be readjusted.
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if you really want to keep the immortal, make it so that you need a warpprism for it to be usefull, just like the reaver, maybe start with nerfing it's speed with a lot
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@Immortal
reduce the damage vs armored (35-40) and give it an ability:
-plasma cannon: cooldown 10 sec, range 7, description ( the immortal fires a shot on a single target and inflicts 100 damage). IMPORTANT! Not is autocast!
This is an idea, values can be changed.
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No... We are considering changing the immortal because TvP is still super P favored...
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How about some of both? PvT has a problem and the immortal has poor design?
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Guys leave the Immortal alone, there's nothing wrong with the design. It forces more interesting compositions out of T than just pure mech, and increases the necessity of focus firing micro for both sides. Just tune the damage down so it's more of a tank and less of a DPS monster, and maybe up the mineral cost to 150.
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Here is my take on the Immortal, like it or hate it. ^^
Replace it with the Sentry (if you don't like using the name or model for the Sentry use the model for the Nullifier and call it something else). Change its line-up of spells, here is a few spells that I got in mind.
- Force Field: Same as in SC2 but has health and can be destroyed. Enemy units won't auto-attack the Force Field, the player will have to order its units to attack it.
- Harden Shield: Targeted unit is granted the Hardened Shield buff for a short duration (something like 10-15 seconds). It may have to be limited to Mechanical units or it might be to strong on Archons/Dark Archons.
The Sentries cost, health, speed, etc would of course have to be adjusted.
Alternatively; Introduce the Sentry as described above but keep the Immortal and move it to the Gateway, tone it down a bit and remove its hardened shield ability (since the Sentry grants it as a buff). The Immortal would still be a beefy frontline unit but with tooned down damage and no hardened shield, the Stalker would still be used as the main ranged unit since the Immortal cannot attack air units and is less mobile.
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On November 13 2012 10:47 SmileZerg wrote:
Guys leave the Immortal alone, there's nothing wrong with the design. It forces more interesting compositions out of T than just pure mech, and increases the necessity of focus firing micro for both sides. Just tune the damage down so it's more of a tank and less of a DPS monster, and maybe up the mineral cost to 150.
I believe tank units are fundamentally bad in design.
The sentry idea seems interesting.
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So Ultralisks are bad design in your opinion? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with a unit intended to soak damage.
Also while I'm not against bringing Sentries back, Force Field should not return with them, in any form.
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I can solidly win in PvT without building a single immortal, but I don't want to see it removed just yet. The tanking functionality is fun for me as a player, because it makes me work harder when I play Terran. TvP is pretty ridiculous, but winnable without a huge skill disparity. I'd say the requirements are on par with current SC2:WoL in terms of difficulty/reward for the matchup.
Banelings should stay in, they're fun as hell and with the medic/marine AI change you're screwed if you don't have lurkers on the field to deal with mass bio units. Lurkers are hands-down better, but they're also more expensive. Having an AoE option before my lurkers have come onto the field and ripped T apart is nice.
As to the Zergling vs Blink Stalker thing, Blink sucked vs Z before the patch, apparently Lings can chase down the stalkers even with blink now, but that's whatever. I wasn't afraid of Blink Stalker builds at all, and I'm still not. Scouting denial is a much bigger factor for any of the current PvZ aggressive builds.
As an Immortal change, I like the idea of retaining its current form but making Hardened Shields a toggle that drains something like 5 shields per second in order to tank the huge burst from massed tanks. The current way to engage immortals with mech is by targetting things OTHER than immortals and having the splash damage their shields while vluture kiting zealots until they get too close, then a-moving or focusing Immortals. This is assuming a set up position, which is a requirement IMO for proper TvP mech.
Also, Immortals should cost more money. They're inexpensive as hell with the gas cost of stalkers and zealots.
Credibility: Bawss Level NA Starbow player.
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On November 13 2012 13:48 SmileZerg wrote:
So Ultralisks are bad design in your opinion? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with a unit intended to soak damage.
Also while I'm not against bringing Sentries back, Force Field should not return with them, in any form.
As I said last page:
On November 13 2012 04:43 Traceback wrote:
Pure tank units are a bad design unless they are used as lategame game enders (aka BC, Brood, Ultra, Carrier). A-move tank units such as thors, immortals, and even things like marauders, and warhounds, are not fun to watch when compared to their alternatives.
Late game they have their purpose. Early mid-game when you're trying to timing push it's just a badly designed a-move unit, since if you have a unit that does 5 damage but has 10000 hitpoints, what else are you going to do with it but a move?
(Note: This is referring to tank units in general, not any specific unit)
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Immortals no longer have hardened shields.
Immortal Ability: Absolute Defense. All friendly units within radius 5 gain 10 points of "hardened sheild". This can only be used when the immortal has over 50/100 points on it's shield. The ability can not stack, new instances replace old instances. The ability drains all shields from the immortal.
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I think that is a good concept, except it would be better to do a individual cast spell, so like, same overall stats but you have to manually apply it to units or a small radius (instead of 5). This would make the ability more then a 2 click spell and would involve strategy in targeting exactly which clumps of units you want affected.
So like, it could be a small radius like 2 but you could use it 3-4 times. Something like that.
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Here is an idea.
Make an ability for immortals that spend some 20-30 shield to get a buffed version of hardened shields (activated at 10 damage?) for 2 seconds. This will create a very interesting dynamic. If the immortal uses this ability without getting hit by tanks/mines/ect it will be a waste of effective hp. It will work much like marine stim, but with the twist that its not always optimal to use it in battle, and its a waste to use reactively.
It will also make immortals very vulnerable to mines if they are unprepared.
Possibly an upgrade at robo bay.
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EPT
