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[A] Starbow - Page 142

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 13:48:20
November 04 2012 12:58 GMT
#2821
Lately, I'm trying to start a fast gas into ghost with lockdown (anti stalker push, reaver drop)
second command center
into drop marine / medic --> third base?
into vessel with irradiation (anti dark templar and ht templar)

-emp detects darktemplar
-ghost has 8 range, 9 in bunker
unlock tech to have a solid mid-late game
Freeze967
Profile Joined August 2011
United States230 Posts
November 04 2012 13:42 GMT
#2822
On November 04 2012 21:58 JohnnyZerg wrote:
Lately, I'm trying to start a fast gas into ghost with lockdown (anti stalker push, reaver drop)
second command center
into drop marine / medic --> third base?
into vessel with irradiation (anti dark templar and ht templar)

emp detects darktemplar
unlock tech to have a solid mid-late game


What prevents anyone with half-decent blink micro from just killing you? That's what really screws with bio.
Freeze967
Profile Joined August 2011
United States230 Posts
November 04 2012 13:48 GMT
#2823
On November 04 2012 19:40 Danko__ wrote:
Is there anyone who likes 50hp lings?

I dont see reason for that at all. Larvae spawn rate pre queens is same as before nerfs. 6pool is much stronger. +1 zealot timings is dead. Backstabbing is weaker (due to atk speed nerf).

Was that really neccesary change?


Yes, I completely agree. 50hp lings makes the game feel really stupid. Suddenly you turn the ling, the fast fragile unit, into this tanky thing. Your making it more akin to the roach then the ling.

It feels useless, and the reason it was introduced "to give people more opportunity to micro" there already was opportunity, maybe not as much if you weren't good enough to micro, but there was. Now zerg just has to a-move the ling. It's like hurrr durr 50hp ling hurrr durr
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 13:56:12
November 04 2012 13:52 GMT
#2824
>>> The second Zerg patch <<<

When I uploaded the last major patch a week ago, I told you all that there are another one coming to nail the last unfinished parts of Zerg.



Overlords have a new upgrade - The generate creep ability give + 2 armor to units underneath the Overlord that stands on creep. The upgrade can be researched at the Lair and costs 200/200.

[image loading]

Reason for this change:


+ Show Spoiler +
The purpose of this upgrade is to make Overlords generate creep ability play a bigger role for Zerg. It will now be a part of the base management. You can place them at choke points, around in your base or on top of your workers to give some extra protection. Or bring them with your army and deploy some creep on the battlefield to give your army an extra edge in combat.

Again, I try to give Zerg more stuff to do with their units/buildings/mechanics etc. P and T has recieved a lot of new things. Zerg has lost a lot of stuff and barely gained anything new.


...

Burrowed Zerglings and Hydras move faster. They now move at speed 2 instead of speed 1. Thats the same speed as burrowed Infestors. Burrow research now costs 200/200 at Lair tech, instead of 150/150.

Reason for this change:

+ Show Spoiler +

When I first implemented burrowed movement for Zerg units some months ago, the purpose was to add more content to the basic units. In SC2, that is a special ability for Roaches and Infestors. Since I no longer have Roaches in the game, I thought that special ability could be added to the other units instead. The slow movement speed of 1 felt kinda redundant and unnecessary.

Zerglings and Hydras are still rather slow compared to walking on ground, but the faster move speed will allow them to do some more hit-and-run attacks and other sneaky stuff. That in itself is a characteristic trait of Zerg.

...

Spellcasters


[image loading]

The Infestor has the following spells:

Fungal Growth - Slows movement and attack speed by 50% for 10 seconds.

Neural Parasite - As in SC2. Can be used while burrowed. The Infestor is NOT auto-attacked when it uses Neural

Plague - Can be researched at Lair tech. Deals 100 damage over 50 seconds.

[image loading]

Why?


+ Show Spoiler +
The Infestor is now a unit that purely manipulates the enemy army but it can not kill anything on itself. It is not as good for harassment as before, but since Zerglings and Hydras move faster underground, they will take that role. Plague is the strongest spell and it helps to seperate Infestors from the deathball. Zerg will be able to sneak around with them and Plague the enemy army before any engagements.


The Swarm Guardian has the following spells:

Dark Swarm - Prevents all ranged damage to units underneath it. Splash damage is reduced by 50%. (same as before)

Frenzy
- Increases movement and attack speed by 20% on friendly units for 30 seconds.

Consume - Kill target friendly Zerg unit to restore 30 energy to the Swarm Guardian.

[image loading]

Why?

+ Show Spoiler +
For the first time ever the Swarm Guardian finally has a full line-up of spells. I thought a lot about what spell to give besides Dark Swarm. The old Frenzy only increased attack damage by 20%. It was a boring spell since it did not really change anything in the way Zerg units are controlled. You casted it. And thatwas it. Sinze Zerg units at that time were fast as fuck it looked odd to let Frenzy add a speed bonus.

I wanted to stay by the theme of letting the Swarm Guardian be a unit that "boosts" the rather weak Zerg units. You either protect them with Dark Swarm or you boost their fighting capabilities. Since must Zerg units are slower on creep now I thought it was time to give this spell a renascence. The spell is more versatile now. Zerg can:
- boost Overlords flying past turrets
- boost Scourges and Banelings so they connect easier with their targets.
- boost units retreating from combat
- obviously boost all units IN combat or on its way towards combat.
- etc

Consume allows Zerg to sacrifice units to increase the other units efficency in combat.


Whats up with the icons?


+ Show Spoiler +
When I change the way a spell or unit works I replace the icon. This is to make new players pay attention that something is different with the spell/unit/upgrade etc.



The Corruptor...


[image loading]

- It can now cast Contaminate on enemy buildings.. Hurray.. Otherwise its still just an Anti air unit that can handle the fights that Scourges and Mutalisks can not. (Fight vs Corsairs, Vikings with splash damage etc)

Why?
+ Show Spoiler +

The Corruptor has replaced the role of the Devourer from BW. Some players want me to bring back the Devourer, or make the Corruptor work as the Devourer did. But honestly, the Devourer was a boring unit too.. You A-moved with it and it only interacted with enemy air units. It was slow and clumpsy and did not benefit much from micro. Yes, Scourges also interacts with air units. But they are rewarded by micro, splits, flanking and other fun things to increase in efficency.

So I was looking at ways to make the Corruptor offer something more to players than just being an A-moving anti air unit.

What is the role of the Corruptor?

- It has high armor and high HP so it can absord damage from Corsairs and Vikings, which melts all other Zerg air units.
- The Mutalisk is rather weak in engagements. They can be upgraded into Brood lords to be better vs ground, and upgraded into Corruptors to be better vs air units.

Blizzard atleast added a bit more interaction via Corruption. Suddenly Corruptors had something more to do. (Even thought it was not much) In fact, all air units designed to deal with enemy air units in SC2 have some way to interact with other units:
- Vikings can transform.
- Phoenix can lift off.
- Corruptors can use Corruption.

Obviously Zerg will still build it mainly for anti air combat. And thats okey. Every unit must not be used for every purpose. By giving it Contaminate it has a tiiiiiiiiny bit more stuff to do... Maybe will we someday see a game where it actually becomes useful...


...




My personal conclusions:

Probably the values will have to be adjusted as the balance work progresses. As usual, this is not set in stone. Maybe things turns out to be retarded. Or better ideas comes to mind in the future. I just need to put the content together so this MOD can progress.

The Corruptor can need some more love. Maybe change the way it attack, its speed etc, so it becomes a bit more rewarded by micro. This unit needs to see more play before I start to go bananas with it.

In the coming patches I will start to focus more on the actual balance. There are some minor design changes I will probably do with Protoss and Terran - like give Recall to the Arbiter and similar stuff. And obviously I need to evalutate if this new Zerg content makes sense at all.
Creator of Starbow
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
November 04 2012 14:11 GMT
#2825
This is so cool. Please start a big company, buy Blizzard and implement this into standard SC2.
maru G5L pls
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 15:59:34
November 04 2012 14:31 GMT
#2826
@ Zerglings with 50 HP

That is the method I choosed to use to strengthen the three following statements:

- Make Zerg more eager to preserve his units and NOT just A-move and don´t give a shit whether they live or die.
- Give Zerg more room to control units in combat and thus make him able to preseve the units in a fight.
- Give Zerg units that actually benefits from the new creep regeneration system.

The Zergling was a unit that did not fill any of the above criteria. I did the following adjustment as well:

- Larwas spawn slower. Zerg can not get the same amount of zerglings into play as easily. If you throw them away they are harder to rebuild. Thus the decision between workers and zerglings is more important mainly in the early game.

The statements above are my personal preferences of aspects I think would make Zerg more enjoyable to play. Thats why I have choosen this path. And this is what I have heard from players so far:

- Zerglings now feel useless
- Zerg care even less if they live or die.
- Their attack speed is horrible. (Even though its still faster than in SC2)
- There is less reasons to micro them in combat
- Zerglings tank too much damage and never dies
- This just sucks and must be changed immediately.

Unfortunatly I have not been able to observe many games with the new changes due to exams and work. I have also been unable to play in a long time due to my injured arm. But I think I have to screw that and all other duties I have today and try this myself. It seems to be a controversial change that arguably had a bad impact on the game.

And if it is as bad as people describe it, then I will have to evaluate it more and maybe adjust it. I also need to identify if its the 50 Hp zergling that makes Zerg care even less now. Or if its the spawn rate of larvas that is too fast, the attack speed too slow/fast, the enemy units too weak to fight vs Zerglings etc.. I also need to see how Zergs economy develops compared to the other races.

Creator of Starbow
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
November 04 2012 15:03 GMT
#2827
Why not give corruptors both: contaminate and acid spores?
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
November 04 2012 15:42 GMT
#2828
--- Nuked ---
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 15:56:39
November 04 2012 15:44 GMT
#2829
Acid spore did not add that much to the way Zerg controlled Devourers. The unit would have been controlled in a similar way even without it. Its not a bad ability, but its not super exiting either.

If I add some kind of passive ability to the Corruptor, I want to make micro for it matter. Or maybe it can be an activated ability, like Corruption, thats casts a buff on an enemy unit.. I did not come up with anything good, thats why I let the Corruptor be kinda simple so far until a good idea arises
Creator of Starbow
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
November 04 2012 17:43 GMT
#2830
NA is updated
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 18:39:32
November 04 2012 18:18 GMT
#2831
Here are two replays between me and the master player Letrus. I play as Zerg and uses most of the new Zerg stuff that was added today in the patch. The observers said it was entertaining to watch atleast ^^

http://drop.sc/270972 ZvP

http://drop.sc/270971 ZvT
Creator of Starbow
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
November 04 2012 18:46 GMT
#2832
Bug: No option to change hot key for Lurker as reported by Iodi. Confirmed.
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
November 04 2012 19:19 GMT
#2833
--- Nuked ---
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
November 04 2012 19:44 GMT
#2834
On November 05 2012 04:19 Laertes wrote:
Hey Traceback, you there? I'm setting up a top tier Bo5 between you and freeze, if you're there, please come online and we'll get ready, I'm probably going to cast alone, since december's girlfriend has her birthday today(Wooooo 1 more year till legal drinx!), and he may not be able to make it. I can do it though, I want this to be a showmatch to remember!

Hard to be a showmatch to remember if you are posting about it right before it's meant to start. :|
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-04 19:51:36
November 04 2012 19:51 GMT
#2835
--- Nuked ---
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
November 04 2012 20:37 GMT
#2836
I really don't mind 50 hp lings. At least in pvz, stalkers do 14 damage to light, and both gateway units have another 20 hp. Recall is probably the most important spell in combatting mass upgraded ling. Mean while I see people microings lings a bit early game. Recall not taking energy is soo good. The main differences is now its almost mandatory to wall in your cannons at expos, other wise a relatively small number of lings will trash it. Compared to SC2 and even BW, toss has a lot of gas, giving them a lot more options.
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
November 04 2012 20:39 GMT
#2837
--- Nuked ---
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
November 04 2012 20:47 GMT
#2838
@kabel
but change the color of creep generated by the overlord when was researched infested creep?
purple -> gray?
Freeze967
Profile Joined August 2011
United States230 Posts
November 04 2012 20:58 GMT
#2839
On November 05 2012 05:37 Chronopolis wrote:
I really don't mind 50 hp lings. At least in pvz, stalkers do 14 damage to light, and both gateway units have another 20 hp. Recall is probably the most important spell in combatting mass upgraded ling. Mean while I see people microings lings a bit early game. Recall not taking energy is soo good. The main differences is now its almost mandatory to wall in your cannons at expos, other wise a relatively small number of lings will trash it. Compared to SC2 and even BW, toss has a lot of gas, giving them a lot more options.


50hp lings are a nerf to zerg, so you might not mind it as much as someone who plays zerg as their main race. People micro'd their lings early game anyway, or if they didn't they were just not as good.
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
November 04 2012 21:40 GMT
#2840
How 50hp lings are nerf to zerg?
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