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graphics by SilverskY ♥
There are a lot of passionate people in the Team Liquid community. Everyday we see threads about StarCraft cooking, GSL statistics, or recent global events. It is the people who make these – people like you – that perpetuate Team Liquid culture and make it a cool community. We are lucky to have many contributors to inspire us, teach us, and be comrades, of a sort. Ninety-nine percent of these people are not part of the handful of personalities you see on streams, or even part of Team Liquid staff. They are people that you correspond with everyday on the forums, chat with in IRC, and bad manner on B.net. Unfortunately, with the mass of active Team Liquid users and eSports fans, it is not always easy to appreciate these unsung heroes, and too often their work goes unnoticed.
With Community Interviews I am going to put the spotlight on some of the contributors, artists, and fans that have made the Team Liquid community interesting and warm. If you guys have any suggestions or demands(!) for questions or interviewees, please post them. I know that a lot of people have slipped under my radar. The only people that I will not interview are super-popular community figures, like Day[9] and Hot_Bid.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SilverskY/ProdigCMHeader.png)
ProdiG
Joined TL.net: January 7th, 2010
Total Posts: 1797
Most Active Forum: StarCraft 2 Maps & Custom Games (42% of posts)
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/esvision
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/prodiGsc
Why he was interviewed: ProdiG is one of our foremost map makers. One of the oldest pillars in the map making community, he has been making maps since the release of the Galaxy Editor. His show, MapCraft: State of the Terrain, and streaming of the map making process were bold steps towards bringing maps into the limelight. As a member of the ESV Map Making Team, his work is regularly featured on the popular ESV TV Korean Weekly tournament. He has long advocated the use of custom maps in tournaments and is one of the few people who knows the ins and outs of map making.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SilverskY/ProdigIntHeader.png)
<style type="text/css">.lightbigbox { margin: 0 auto; width: 540px; padding: 20px; background: #ebeff2; border-radius:8px; -webkit-border-radius: 8px; -moz-border-radius: 8px; } .Q { color: #00005D }</style><div class="lightbigbox"><span class="Q">Hey Prodig! How's life? Made any cool maps lately?</span>
prodiG: Life is good. Starting some new endeavors which hopefully work out. I recently finished my latest map (2) ESV Edge of Oblivion, a two player map with a very experimental concept (that I'm already considering overhauling)
<span class="Q">What is the current state of StarCraft 2 maps? What are your most and least favorite of Blizzard made maps and user made maps?</span>
P: I personally feel that the current state of SC2 maps leaves a lot to be desired. There is a thriving active custom mapmaking community that doesn't seem to get a lot of love. There's definitely been a lot of progress recently from things like the TeamLiquid Mapmaking Contest or the IPL map contest, but (and I hate to sound high-maintenance/needy) it bothers me that it's taken the community a year and a half before getting to the point it's at now. We're going into SC2 with over a decade of BW behind us, why are we forgetting what custom maps did for BW? There's tons of evidence supporting the fact that you can get better SC2 games for both the players and spectators when you play on a well-designed and properly tested custom made map and in my opinion that logic alone should have been enough to see every Blizzard map removed from every map pool ever.
I'm sure it comes as no surprise that my most hated Blizzard map is Metalopolis. Please, let it die already... StarCraft is not a game that works well with maps that have been played for over a single tournament season or two. As far as favorites are concerned, Antiga Shipyard seems to be alright. It's got its issues but I don't cringe when I see that map pop up on my loading screen after a ladder queue.
For custom maps, ESV Sanshorn Mist AE takes the cake. The map is a remake of Sanshorn Mist, made in the SC2 Beta by Konicki (now retired). The original was far ahead of its time and this remake fixes aesthetic and balance issues. The ESVTV/Twitch.TV Korean Weekly has had countless amazing games on this map and I think players are only beginning to skim the surface. As for least favorite custom map, I think it's too hard to single just one out here! There's definitely some duds out there (some of my maps included)...
<span class="Q">Many of the new features in StarCraft 2 like improved unit pathing and larger control groups has made it clear that Brood War map design will not work for StarCraft 2. Considering large control groups and improved unit pathing among other things, how should we approach criticizing and making StarCraft 2 maps?</span>
P: The biggest difference is in proportions. They're COMPLETELY different in SC2, almost entirely untransferrable. "Open areas" in SC2 don't need to take as much physical space on a map as it did in Brood War. Beyond that, there's also balance. Make a map too open and it's too Zerg favored, make it too choked and it becomes too anti-Zerg. Some of the key things that I think SC2 is missing right now is first and foremost feedback. To this day it's pretty challenging to get useful feedback from reputable sources (progamers who can look at a map and say "this doesn't work because of this issue" rather than "I think this map is Terran favored, kthxbai."). Beyond that, mapmakers just now (including myself) are realizing that success lies in simplicity, not overly complex maps that are packed with innovative features. Looking back at Brood War, some of the most simple maps were amongst the most popular of all time. Take Fighting Spirit for example. It has the most generic expansion layout and the features of the map are very simple: all of the expansions have chokes leading into them, but the rest of the map is a big open playground. That being said, innovative and complex maps still have their place as they did in Brood War. Destination, Match Point and Outsider for example were maps that had a lot of interesting features throughout the map and I can't help but feel we're not even close to seeing such genius creations in SC2 yet (which is another rant for another time).
<span class="Q">Are there any ignored, undiscovered or underused map attributes that could revolutionize the game, for both spectators and players? Are 300x300 maps the next big thing? *cough*yes*cough*</span>
P: Well... 300x300 maps can't actually be made, the max is 256x256
There's definitely undiscovered or underused attributes, there's no way around it - there's simply too many permutations and combinations that you can create for a melee map. One of the things that I've tried to experiment with whenever I can is Destructible Xel'Naga Watchtowers - the idea behind it being that they offer the choice of either vision of a crucial section of the map, or an expansion. The problem with this is it's a custom-made unit and causes the map to classify as "Custom" instead of "Melee," but unlike Brood War this only affects what you see when you search for Custom and Melee maps via lists on Battle.Net, which almost nobody does for melee maps (it's all done by searching for the mapname itself - the game will still play exactly as a Melee SC2 game). Some people/organizations are pretty anal about it but I personally think it's just holding back the potential for interesting things in SC2.<span class="Q">How much of a factor do you think maps play in the entertainment value and general success of tournaments?</span>
P: As a spectator, I value things in this order: Player Skill/Talent/Gosu-ness, Map, Commentary. There's a reason why I pay way more attention to the Korean scene than the foreign scene: because they play on average better SC2 games on better maps. As far as I'm concerned, commentary is a bonus (years of watching MSL/OSL , HLTV, Q3 GTV, BW Reps, etc have un-spoiled me I guess). A lot of people seem to value entertainment value based primarily on commentary or the player him/herself and to each there own, but one thing seems universally common amongst the majority of SC2 players I meet: They don't respect maps the way someone coming from say a BW background does. The most common trends I've seen both on and offline will be discussion of balance and while that obviously has it's own merit in both BW and SC2, they seem to overlook the potential for things like new and exciting playstyles or a map-specific opening. My absolute favorite tournaments/events to watch are GSL and Korean Weekly because they both have the cream of the crop when it comes to SC2 players and the map pool is constantly fresh and exciting, there's always something new for me to see. The last thing I want to see is yet another generic macro game on Metalopolis. (AXE THAT CRAP ALREADY >
!!! )<span class="Q">You've made quite a few maps in your time. Can user made maps be good enough to replace Blizzard made maps on the eSports level, and if so, how should tournaments go about incoporating them into their map pool?</span>
P: There are many issues involved like balance and the limit experience of pros on non-ladder maps. In my opinion, user-made maps are already good enough to replace Blizzard made maps on the eSports level for MANY reasons. The first of which is overall gameplay: User-made maps have been beating Blizzard maps since practically day one as far as exciting gameplay is concerned for both the players and spectators. Secondly, balance: A high-level mapmaker will take every balance issue very seriously and work to make sure the map is as close to balanced as possible (closed to balanced being 45-55 or at worst 60-40). For example, GSL recently removed Gold expansions from every single map in it's map pool because they determined that it was one of factors contributing to Terran's overwhelming success. Blizzard on the other hand often waits until the end of a ladder season (which up until recently could last longer than six months for all we knew) or not change the issue at all. Finally, bugfixes: Every map will have a bug from time to time. A cliff that wasn't supposed to be pathable turns out to be pathable, a mineral patch is slightly mis-placed, etc. Mapmakers will fix issues like that as soon as they hear about them - for example, the ESV Map Team strives for a 24-hour turnaround on bug reports and for the most part we hit it within the first 4 hours. Blizzard again might not fix the issue at all and instead decide to axe the map in a later season (did you know you can park a tank in one of the thirds on the ladder version of Antiga Shipyard and siege one of your opponent's geysers in his main if you have vision? this is a two minute fix, I did it myself.
The ideal way for tournaments to incorporate maps into their map pool is simply to keep an eye open for new and interesting maps (this means having staff that's not in Bronze league picking your map pool *ahem*). From there, they can open up a dialogue with the mapmaker or mapmaking team they represent and sey "Hey, we're considering using your map in a tournament map pool. Can you make sure it's up on these servers and is as bug free as possible/give us the map file for us to publish ourselves?" From there, the tournament organizers can take feedback from the players - balance concerns, bug fixes, etc. and pass it along to the mapmaker so they can fix the map and continue testing until everyone is happy. This is exactly what we try to do with the ESV map team and the Korean Weekly, and this is exactly what GSL does with Crux.
This obviously involves some risk for the organizer. They need to put up a decent amount of prizes to attract some reputable sources to provide feedback (Nestea will be able to give me much more useful information as a mapmaker than Joe Bronze) and if it turns out all of the maps they pick suck, it will tarnish their name and they'll have a harder time growing in the future. There is also the issue of backlash from the players - at the moment, SC2 is in a state where the map pools don't rotate very often. Trying to get players to play on new maps can be hard, even when there is a lot of incentive. You run the risk of alienating a lot of people which if you're trying to run your event as a business is essentially a lost customer. This is in my opinion the fault of everyone collectively: Tournaments didn't pick custom maps up early enough, Blizzard didn't add custom maps to their ladder pool because they wanted to balance the game and now a year and a half has passed and we're in a rut where all people want to play on is Metalopolis because that's what they know.
That answer turned into a bit of a rant, so I'll summarize with this: Organizers are going to have to jump the gun sooner or later and basically say "Here's your massive prize pool, here's your maps for the event. Practice them if you want to win" - That, or some kind of progamer revolution where everyone unanimously boycotts any tournament with a Blizzard map in it (DIE METALOPOLIS >
!!!! )<span class="Q">The IPL Map Tournament and TeamLiquid Map Contest are two examples of a renewed interest in maps, but things like tournament map pools still get surprisingly little attention or critique. How can we push maps into the spotlight and put pressure on tournaments to change their map pools? Why are people usually so apathetic towards the subject?</span>
P: One of the main reasons I think people are so apathetic to the subject because of how inaccessible the maps are. Battle.net 2.0 makes it very difficult to find a pickup game of a custom map unless it's very high in popularity, which is counterproductive since the most popular maps are the most accessible (aka, ladder maps). As unfortunate as it is, it's something we have to live with. The more people that come to realize just how much a well-made SC2 map can add to the game, the more I think demand for those well-made custom maps will increase. After that it's just a matter of being vocal about it: IPL, TL and Blizzard say they want well-made custom maps and they got them. Now all we need is the rest of the community to follow suit. Viva la revolution!
<span class="Q">How long can a map stay in circulation before it becomes stale? Is it the job of eSports organizations to come up with new eSports maps, or is that Blizzard's responsibility? Metalopolis has been around since beta while other maps have come and gone.</span>
P: In my opinion the absolute longest stretch of time a map should stay in any map pool should be six months. Ideally, you'd see a map pool rotate in one or two new maps in every three months and rotate the oldest out. There's nothing saying a map can come back after a relatively long hiatus for a little while. In my opinion, the perfect world would have both Blizzard and eSports organizations outsourcing their mapmaking efforts to various well-established teams. There's potential for money to be made here (why is there not a pepsi ad on my loading screen for GSL Dual Sight or a billboard/sign doodad on Daybreak for Sony Ericsson? I'm okay with that so long as Blizzard is.) eSports organizations and Blizzard can gather demand. Mapmaking teams can deliver the product. Let's make it happen!
<span class="Q">Do you think that map makers and tournament organizations should, like KeSPA, try to balance the game through custom map pools? How much of balance whine at the professional level can we attribute to maps?</span>
P: I don't think it's possible NOT to balance the game through maps & map pools. Some maps are inherently better for one race than another - That's why StarCraft is great. Not every race is the same. Picture this scenario: You have two relatively evenly skilled players, one Zerg and one Terran. They're about to play a best of 3 on three seperate maps: one Zerg favored (60-40 zvt), one Terran favored (60-40 tvz) and one that's balanced (50-50) played in that order. Before the match even starts, there's a story to be told here. Will the Zerg player 2-0 his opponent and beat him on the T favored map? will it go 1-1 and move to an exciting battle of wits on the balanced third map? Find out on the next episode of <awesome SC2 show>.
As far as balance whine is concerned, I think you can attribute some of it to the maps and some of it to the state of the game overall. One minute Protoss is eating everyone alive, the next minute Terran is laughing at everyone and then Zerg comes out of nowhere and stomps everything. That's how StarCraft works. However, consistent trends over time (Terran dominating GSL for multiple seasons consecutively on multiple map pools) indicates a problem in any of the variables that remained consistent (Are the Terrans just better? Do ALL of the maps have Terran favored features? Is Terran simply better than Z/P in SC2?). All mapmakers can do is change the maps in some way or another and see if that helps change things.
<span class="Q">If you could meet one progamer (except Boxer) in real life, who would it be and why?</span>
P: I think it's a three-way tie between White-Ra, Cooller (Quake player, think Russian Quake-playing version of White-Ra) and Flash. All of those guys are so ridiculously talented it's impossible to pick!
<span class="Q">What is your biggest pet peeve when it comes to commentators?</span>
P: A lack of enthusiasm. I've recently gotten more and more involved in the fighting game community and the commentators there are very good at making hype moments truly feel like hype moments when I'm at home - it doesn't sound fake, these guys sound legitimately excited at what's going on. I feel like a lot of commentators in SC2 don't do that well. Have you ever listened to Korean commentary? Those guys bring the hype. I miss that.
<span class="Q">The year is 2013. The best StarCraft 2 team in the world is?</span>
P: My money's on SlayerS. Everywhere I look, those guys are ahead of the curve. They might not have MVP or Nestea, but overall their talent pool blows every other team out of the water and I don't think that's going to change with a guy like Boxer spearheading it.
<span class="Q">Is Kpop an integral part of eSports or does it alienate foreign fans?</span>
P: Serious answer? It's a community thing. Only in online SC communities will you find this kind of love for Kpop outside of Korea. If by "foreign fan" you mean my Hockey buddy from college who heard about that there StarCrafts thing and is checking out a barcraft event where he saw a bunch of yuppies bouncing around to gee~ he might shudder and never try to be a part of that community again. The same could go for anything unorthodox like that though!
<span class="Q">If you could be Liquid`Nazgul for one day, what would you do?</span>
P: sasdfaasdfertasdjfoin ummmm... Let's see... Throw bazillions of dollars at the mapmaking community and blow it up!
<span class="Q">Final thoughts?</span>
P: I know I gripe and groan a lot about maps and stuff (DIE METALOPOLIS DIE) but at the end of the day, StarCraft and eSports is something I have a passion for and I just want to see it exceed its potential. Thanks for letting me do this interview, I hope it was educational
Thanks for waiting prodiG!! This took a while to get out -_-;
