EPTForcing the terran to blindly open with an anti-blink build is really bad for the balance of the game but also for the fun and amusement a game should bring.
[M] (2) ESV Cloud Kingdom - Page 10
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algue
France1436 Posts
Forcing the terran to blindly open with an anti-blink build is really bad for the balance of the game but also for the fun and amusement a game should bring. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On October 08 2014 06:35 algue wrote: The problem with blink on Cloud Kingdom only comes partially from the fact that the protoss can easily blink into the main. The real problem is the rotation time between the main and the natural. A protoss can poke at the natural and then harass the main in the blink of an eye (eh!) whereas it takes a lot of time for the defending terran army to rotate between the main and the natural. Forcing the terran to blindly open with an anti-blink build is really bad for the balance of the game but also for the fun and amusement a game should bring. This scenario already existed with the map in WoL and doesn't get any worse with HotS. We've also endured much worse blink maps (Yeonsu + Heavy Rain) which not only had the same ease of bouncing between main/nat, but had much more surface area to cover via the mains. We also didn't have the +shield buff for widow mines. Widow mines alone are going to provide quite a bit of zoning potential for the main. If the worry is a proliferation of widow mine openings in TvP on this map, I can't say I find that a problem. Name me one TvZ game that doesn't involve early game hellions. | ||
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Hexe
United States332 Posts
On October 08 2014 06:51 iamcaustic wrote: This scenario already existed with the map in WoL and doesn't get any worse with HotS. We've also endured much worse blink maps (Yeonsu + Heavy Rain) which not only had the same ease of bouncing between main/nat, but had much more surface area to cover via the mains. We also didn't have the +shield buff for widow mines. Widow mines alone are going to provide quite a bit of zoning potential for the main. If the worry is a proliferation of widow mine openings in TvP on this map, I can't say I find that a problem. Name me one TvZ game that doesn't involve early game hellions. What didnt exist was the Mothership Core. The main problem is that the ramp going to the natural to defend, and running back all the way into the main is a long journey. And a few widow mines don't really do too much to a smart blink player. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On October 08 2014 07:41 Hexe wrote: What didnt exist was the Mothership Core. The main problem is that the ramp going to the natural to defend, and running back all the way into the main is a long journey. And a few widow mines don't really do too much to a smart blink player. The game has already been re-balanced to accommodate the MSC; its vision range/time warp duration has been reduced, blink research increased from 140 seconds to 170, and widow mines got +damage vs. shields. Also, simply dismissing widow mines under the false pretense of "a good Protoss won't let them do much" isn't a real argument. Widow mines are key to holding HotS blink all-ins. | ||
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Hexe
United States332 Posts
On October 08 2014 08:01 iamcaustic wrote: The game has already been re-balanced to accommodate the MSC; its vision range/time warp duration has been reduced, blink research increased from 140 seconds to 170, and widow mines got +damage vs. shields. Also, simply dismissing widow mines under the false pretense of "a good Protoss won't let them do much" isn't a real argument. Widow mines are key to holding HotS blink all-ins. Yes, but we are talking about early blink play, there will not be very many widow mines. And if there actually are for a potential blink, a Protoss can just use that wasted tech time to do whatever the hell they want, take a faster 3rd, climb to Colossus or Storm. I dont think you understand the previous point I made, the distance between defending the natural and running back up to your main on the very far end is a long trail. There is a reason these types of maps dont get played anymore, its not about being able to defend the blink, its the possibility of a game ending strategy that you need to prepare for, and in doing so you waste valuable time and resources. EDIT: And it encourages base trades, in those select games. EDIT 2: Im just going to PM you | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On October 08 2014 08:08 Hexe wrote: Yes, but we are talking about early blink play, there will not be very many widow mines. And if there actually are for a potential blink, a Protoss can just use that wasted tech time to do whatever the hell they want, take a faster 3rd, climb to Colossus or Storm. I dont think you understand the previous point I made, the distance between defending the natural and running back up to your main on the very far end is a long trail. There is a reason these types of maps dont get played anymore, its not about being able to defend the blink, its the possibility of a game ending strategy that you need to prepare for, and in doing so you waste valuable time and resources. EDIT: And it encourages base trades, in those select games. What constitutes "early blink"? Are we talking about the 1-base blink strategy, or the 2-base? I'm going to assume 2-base blink, because you talk about taking a faster 3rd for the Protoss. I don't know what you're talking about regarding "wasted tech time". Widow mine drop openings are a common opening for Terran and can easily be scaled back to defensive WM + 3 rax upon scouting a 2-base blink play. There are also numerous solutions which are not just limited to widow mines. Here's a good example from QXC analyzing Polt defending a 2-base blink stalker attack from Rain via a 3 rax opening: If we are, in fact, talking about a 1-base blink all-in though, then there's no reason to try and defend your nat; just keep the CC in the main and you're fine. What I really want to know, however is how you think this is somehow harder to defend against blink than this. If a Protoss blinks up into a patch of 2-4 widow mines, they have nowhere to go. That's very different from maps like Yeonsu and Heavy Rain, which featured a huge surface area for the stalkers to circumvent a low number of widow mines. Bunkers at the nat, widow mines on high ground. I don't see why defending should be so impossibly hard, and I say this as a Terran that hates TvP. | ||
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