[M] (2) ESV Edge of Oblivion by prodiG

On October 31 2011 13:33 phathom321 wrote:
Looks amazing @.@ Just out of curiosity, why did you remove the 5th base next to the gold?

On October 31 2011 14:08 Downside wrote:
This is what I see as a diamond level protoss player.

Looks like a lot a room for protoss abuse. Particularly the backdoor pathway from the gold. Looks like you could put a pylon up top hugging the rocks and then warp down onto the backdoor lane allowing you to attack from a position unavailable to other races in the early game. Also 3 bases all very close in proximity, with the added benefit of the nat being on highground that you can FFE on. Collosus would seem to dominate on this map as well. With so many cliffs around the first 3 bases protoss would seem to have a very easy time holding most all-ins. There are also a great deal of chokes making forcefields very strong both offensively and defensively.

Not my first rodeo. Fixed the pylon warpin well before the map was even in beta. The majority of the cliffs aren't pathable so Colossus don't have much to abuse.

Aside from that I see positioning tanks along the backdoor path to the gold to deny the nat as a real annoying thing terran could abuse.
This is intended. If you let a terran player drop a pile of tanks in your backdoor are you actually going to blame the map?

I don't play zerg, but this map looks like a zergs nightmare. I don't mean to trash on the map, cause I think it's aesthetic looks awesome, and I'm just a diamond player, my understanding of how the map would work might not be that great.

On October 31 2011 14:08 Downside wrote:
This is what I see as a diamond level protoss player.

Looks like a lot a room for protoss abuse. Particularly the backdoor pathway from the gold. Looks like you could put a pylon up top hugging the rocks and then warp down onto the backdoor lane allowing you to attack from a position unavailable to other races in the early game. Also 3 bases all very close in proximity, with the added benefit of the nat being on highground that you can FFE on. Collosus would seem to dominate on this map as well. With so many cliffs around the first 3 bases protoss would seem to have a very easy time holding most all-ins. There are also a great deal of chokes making forcefields very strong both offensively and defensively.

Aside from that I see positioning tanks along the backdoor path to the gold to deny the nat as a real annoying thing terran could abuse.

I don't play zerg, but this map looks like a zergs nightmare. I don't mean to trash on the map, cause I think it's aesthetic looks awesome, and I'm just a diamond player, my understanding of how the map would work might not be that great.

On October 31 2011 18:17 XRaDiiX wrote:
As a Zerg it makes me cringe when i see this map that ramp at the natural

On October 31 2011 20:18 Eccho wrote:
Ok, i never post on a thread normally but this is just fabulous
I don't know if it's balanced or if it's good at a high level, but I'm so excited to test it. Is there any link so we can get the map?

This is what makes SC2 go bigger everyday. You put in a lot of work.

Congratz, and go ahead!

On October 31 2011 19:41 Ragoo wrote:
Wow, this map is extremely complicated, yet it's the high quality product you'd expect from someone like prodiG!

I am a bit concerned about those gold bases, it just seems like Terran would take them as third aaall the time and then drop 1000 MULEs as always.
That's more of a problem of balance tho and that Terran profits more from golds and is just way more flexible in every aspect. You just can't make a map shit for Terran unless it's as big as Tal'Darim I feel like.
So I would say that's a bit of a problem but something Blizz has to fix and this map layout still looks amazing.

Aesthetics are absolute top level as always. Someone finally bothered to cut out Typhon Bricks (I guess in this case the Zhakul'Das ones) correctly and not be blizz-lazy about it! Also I loove that you used the textures of Neo Enigma in the main again, imo the best looking mains I have seen in any Xel'Naga Cavern's like style.
And that blue water in this theme is a joy to look at!

All in all you come back to the scene just to create one of the favorites for TL contest/IPL contest, n1

edit: Btw can you (and other ESV members...yes I'm looking at you monitor) please start to post analyzer pictures? It's really one more minute of work and it helps semi-good mapmakers like me a lot to understand the map and learn from it.

On October 31 2011 23:20 Archvil3 wrote:
I should add "by prodiG" to the title of my map threads as well. Instant 3 pages of replies!

On November 01 2011 01:53 prodiG wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I'm concerned about the gold too. After testing if it looks like I need to change it to a normal expansion or add more rocks or something to it then I will but for now I'm going to stick to a more experimental design :>
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 01 2011 02:17 Samro225am wrote:


I feel like having a regular base so far off really does not pay off. When you compare how few space you have to control to get three base mining (and also four), the gold position would not be used by opening the backdoor that much. this would make it less of an option really. you then have a regular base as fifth and you only expand counterclockwise in most games.

so it is not that much about having an option and you would have even fewer chances to different map split scenarios, which is a pitty cause the central ridge is great imo.

rest is so so in my opinion. flat choke is questionable. and as i said there is very few stuff to control to have three bases (with the only downside the flat choke)

doddading is a bit random and textures seem a bit rushed tbh.some spots were forgotten here and there where the tiles and the obsidian like stiff is. then the selection of textureswhere and how you applied them looks almost work in progress. would have expected more here from such an experienced and well known mapper

On November 01 2011 03:50 Paladia wrote:
Can't terran just easily defend the third by having siege tanks in their main? The natural also seems quite easily defended by siege tanks.

Overall, the map seems quite Terran-favored, which is the opposite of what you want with the current state of the game.

On October 31 2011 19:31 Zelniq wrote:
zerg's nightmare. too narrow/cramped, particularly the strip running down the center. considerably more difficult than say Crossfire SE which also similarly had so many chokes/narrow passageways. but the long map architecture helped a lot for creating space and making counterattacks very effective. this map looks much harder to do that.

there are only 2 wide open areas on the map that aren't even key positions and are avoidable.

On November 01 2011 04:01 prodiG wrote:

tanks would splash all of their own stuff, you would reach much farther than where the CC would be placed. lings in the mineral line for example would get hit by tanks and splash the scv's that the lings are attacking.

The idea here is that the lowground third expansion is easier to take than backdooring out to the gold and taking an expansion that would spread you that much more thinly. You can take the lowground third and if you're holding the xel'naga tower next to your gold expansion you will have a pretty easy time spotting huge incoming backdoor flanks

On November 01 2011 19:41 Ragoo wrote:
Fuck yeah prodiG you are the best! : )

And you love big mains, eh?^^

On November 02 2011 07:49 Barrin wrote:
Ya sorry I meant to add that the lack of ways to attain/assert map control is probably part of this map's concept and is therefore plenty good. Especially because you meant to do it

I suppose I meant more for people to see it and that you usually shouldn't do it. But on this map is fine.

On November 02 2011 08:11 Ulfsark wrote:
You have good taste in music sir, great taste in maps as well. I love the atmosphere that your maps have.

On January 05 2012 11:03 Gfire wrote:
Do you think it's problematic that you can warp into the backdoor area from a pylon at the nat? It would be impossible to stop a 4gate from getting highground vision if they have two entrances.

On January 05 2012 11:42 NinjaBeast wrote:
To me it seems like Siege tanks and Pylons will be very powerful harassment tools. You can build a pylon above the destructible rocks on the west or east side and do a warp in and walk directly into the main. With tanks and medivac support you could besiege the natural from the low ground VERY EASILY. Otherwise, I like the high number of expansions and all of the odd attack routes.

On January 05 2012 11:06 prodiG wrote:

Yes and no, the map is sort of designed in such a way that if you lose control of that space you're in a lot of trouble. There's no denying this map is very punishing for mistakes in PvP. It can be dealt with by playing very carefully and doing builds that make sure you end up in control of your natural expansion so stuff like that doesn't happen, but for those who opt for more passive builds and get caught off guard by something like a well-hidden 4gate... I predict a lot of salt from those guys. PvP is such a volatile matchup that adaptability to both the map and your opponent is absolutely necessary and this map is no exception to that.

On January 08 2012 09:00 Gfire wrote:
It's not just aesthetics, because something tall there would block LoS unlike low ground.

On January 08 2012 08:45 EatThePath wrote:
prodig, the new double ramp configuration looks weird to me. This is just aesthetics, but have you considered using a doodad wall with the same cliff level instead of a narrow cliff drop?

+ Show Spoiler [like this] +