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Pumpkin Palace
♥ 1v1
♥ 10 blue expansions
♥ 2 gold expansion
♥ 2 Xel' Naga Watch Towers
♥ 140 x 140 playable size
Update: 12.26.2011
I'm finally in a position to work on this map again, so I'm bumping the thread to see if anyone can bring some new insight into the layout.
Update: 07.08.2011
It's been a while since I updated this map, but with good reason. I had to make a lot of stuff and get the layout right. I think it's just about finished now. All I need to do is add some doodads here and there and I can put this in the done pile.
Update: 06.09.2011
Another update. I added some textures and changed the terrain a little bit. There used to be two super wide ramps leading into the third, the third blocked by rocks, but they've been narrowed by half each.
There are also big destructible rocks blocking the back door paths to the thirds and fourths. I'm considering the corner expansions the fourths. Talking of which, the fourths are now a little bit spicier. They used to be one cliff level lower so that they were flush with the cliff level of the thirds. Now there are ramps and stuff. Neato!
Also, I added expansions to the empty spaces that were between the fourths and the golds.
Update: 06.03.2011
I think I fixed the rush distance problem and the circular movement problem. Plus the third is easier to get now because I added a ramp to it that faces toward the choke of the natural. Good?
Update: 06.02.2011
I got bored of working on Lovableland for so long, so I started this. It's going to have a spooky theme. I already have two textures created for it. By the time I'm done there will be 7 or 8 custom textures for it; just like Lovableland!
The rush distance is atrocious. I'll have to do something about that.
Visit lovablemikey's Map Thread for more maps!
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Nice work on the textures, once again. (:
There are two little issues that stand out to me. I think the thirds are a little hard to get to, and I feel like theres a huge "loop" design to this map where you can't get through the middle and have to walk all the way around. Maybe if you had a path running through the center somehow.
Beyond the third, the expansion pattern seems quite nice, though. I don't know if rocks are needed for the golds since they're so exposed anyway.
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I think a good way to fix the rush distance and make the map less of a "Circle" would be to "Rotate" the golds a little and add a small path though the middle.
However this may make the rush distance a little to small...
And very nice on the cusom textures. 
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GET OUT WITH THOSE TEXTURES. haha
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That's an interesting tileset.
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I updated the map. Check it out!
On June 03 2011 07:12 Gfire wrote:
Nice work on the textures, once again. (:
There are two little issues that stand out to me. I think the thirds are a little hard to get to, and I feel like theres a huge "loop" design to this map where you can't get through the middle and have to walk all the way around. Maybe if you had a path running through the center somehow.
Beyond the third, the expansion pattern seems quite nice, though. I don't know if rocks are needed for the golds since they're so exposed anyway.
Thanks for the suggestions. I took all of them and you can see how in the new images. Don't you feel special!? They were good ones.
On June 03 2011 07:30 NickMP wrote:I think a good way to fix the rush distance and make the map less of a "Circle" would be to "Rotate" the golds a little and add a small path though the middle. However this may make the rush distance a little to small... And very nice on the cusom textures.
I tried rotating the gold bases but I couldn't get it to work in a way that I was pleased with. So, I ended up with what is in the pictures now. Thanks for the suggestion though.
On June 03 2011 07:41 WniO wrote:
GET OUT WITH THOSE TEXTURES. haha
Only if you get down with them.
On June 03 2011 09:32 Dexington wrote:
That's an interesting tileset.
Thank you. That one texture is pretty nice, isn't it?
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It looks pretty solid now. The rush distance is within a good range.
I like the golds. They are more exposed to fire from one side, but open to pathing from the other. So, the one you could more easily walk to and reinforce (if expanding in the natural counter-clockwise direction,) is the one that's vulnerable from behind. You'd want to take the one that has it's back to you, more likely, but it's harder to reinforce and vulnerable from the front.
Where the watchtowers are, their edges look like they come just short of the cliffs, I think you should add some doodads there just so there's no chance of sneaking by around the tower. I doubt it would actually come into play, but it would be cleaner to do so.
The expansion pattern seems quite nice, I feel like there's good options for all the races, and theres not like a "you can get X bases, but after that it's hard," so it's easy for Zerg to stay up in bases. It seems pretty balanced.
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I really like the tileset, but when I first saw the overview it seemed to me that the mains were in the upper right and bottom left, because they stood out and were the biggest.
That in and of itself is weird. An expo is much larger than the mains? Funky. However, that unorthodoxiness could be good. We'll have to see. Otherwise I really like the updated design of the map.
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Actually, you could probably shrink the top-right/bottom-left and top/botttom middle expansions, and have more airspace behind. Making those middle bases closer to the mains might mean they are an optional third/fourth, as well.
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On June 04 2011 01:04 Gfire wrote:
It looks pretty solid now. The rush distance is within a good range.
I like the golds. They are more exposed to fire from one side, but open to pathing from the other. So, the one you could more easily walk to and reinforce (if expanding in the natural counter-clockwise direction,) is the one that's vulnerable from behind. You'd want to take the one that has it's back to you, more likely, but it's harder to reinforce and vulnerable from the front.
Where the watchtowers are, their edges look like they come just short of the cliffs, I think you should add some doodads there just so there's no chance of sneaking by around the tower. I doubt it would actually come into play, but it would be cleaner to do so.
The expansion pattern seems quite nice, I feel like there's good options for all the races, and theres not like a "you can get X bases, but after that it's hard," so it's easy for Zerg to stay up in bases. It seems pretty balanced.
Nice! The golds were a concern I had. I think I need to test it now and see how they play out.
The edges do go to the cliffs. There will be no sneaking.
Balanced!? I hope so! I think it's pretty balanced too, but what do I know? It's at that point where testing it will be necessary before I make any drastic changes. Thanks for the comments!
On June 04 2011 01:10 Kinetik_Inferno wrote:
I really like the tileset, but when I first saw the overview it seemed to me that the mains were in the upper right and bottom left, because they stood out and were the biggest.
That in and of itself is weird. An expo is much larger than the mains? Funky. However, that unorthodoxiness could be good. We'll have to see. Otherwise I really like the updated design of the map.
I'll be trimming those big expansions down a little. They don't need to be so big. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm just getting started on that tileset. It's going to be super awesome when I'm done. You'll see!
On June 04 2011 01:20 Gfire wrote:
Actually, you could probably shrink the top-right/bottom-left and top/botttom middle expansions, and have more airspace behind. Making those middle bases closer to the mains might mean they are an optional third/fourth, as well.
I agree about the top right and bottom left bases. I'm going to trim them down. The top middle and bottom middle bases are further away from the main to keep Stalker from blinking in and out as they please. Maybe it won't be a big deal though. These are the things that I need to test for. So let the testing begin! Thanks again for the suggestions.
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I updated the map a bit. Most of it is described in the original post. I have some pretty cool replays too but I need to find a place to host them.
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Now that it's been a month since I updated this thread, I'm updating it. The map is practically done. I need to add doodads and that's about it. I must have gone through a hundred textures before I decided on eight for the map. There are two textures that are almost identical, the swirl textures, but there is a reason for that; that reason is variety. It looks more interesting with those two textures interacting together instead of only one of them by itself.
From all the games I've seen and played, the layout promotes a lot of action. The middle is where most of that action occurs, and each race seems to have an equal chance. Everyone who plays it likes it, so that might mean mission complete.
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Dustin Browder appeared in his dreams I spose. Has bald crazy developer written all over it!
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Could you show a larger image of the map? I remember being a consultant for the map balance :D
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On July 08 2011 17:49 iGrok wrote:
Why are the rocks there?
There are 3 sets of rocks. The set at the thirds is to make it slightly harder to take the thirds. The set at the golds is to make it slightly harder to take the golds. The set of huge rocks at the top and bottom of the map are to block one of the 3 ways into the thirds and to try and keep the action concentrated in the middle. No good?
On July 08 2011 17:51 ihasaKAROT wrote:Dustin Browder appeared in his dreams I spose. Has bald crazy developer written all over it!
I was thinking of getting rid of the big rocks, but I wasn't sure. After testing the map it didn't seem necessary to do that.
On July 08 2011 17:52 Whiplash wrote:
Could you show a larger image of the map? I remember being a consultant for the map balance :D
Done! It's coupled with the other overview. Actually, click on the overview to get a bigger image.
Thanks for the suggestions too! I think I took most of them. I credited you on the loading screen too. I hope that's alright.
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By the time anyone wants to take the golds, they'll have a large army and will down the rocks in seconds - so why put the rocks there at all?
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Wow those aesthetics :O Your textures and use of it is f-ing stunning!! I want to play this map just because it's so cool looking^^
Some ideas:
- remove the rocks at the third and widen the ramp from the third to the middle a bit; I think right now the third favors T/P cause Zerg can't take it very quickly and once it's up for T/P it's rather easy to defend cause of the small ramp and it's very easy to take another very safe base vs Zerg on 2/8 o'clock
- 2/8 o'clock bases aren't vulnerable enough to justify a full base, I'd cut one gas and 1-2 minerals; otherwise T/P will turtle for Deathball against Zerg
- the watchtowers in the middle are both only accessible when you hold that small space in the middle, meaning once you control that area you have both watchtowers and I don't see both players holding one tower each; I don't like it and would suggest rotating those ramps to the towers by something like 90° clockwise and thus make it possible for each player to control one tower
- rocks at the gold don't serve any purpose, you can't take those golds early anyway, just like on Metalopolis
- I don't know about those big rocks, in ZvP I think on the one hand they give Zerg some time when Protoss tries to push through this very narrow path and abuse the shit out of forcefields, on the other hand they deny Zerg a possible harass path into the third for some time. Keep them or remove them, either way is fine imo
Other than that I love the layout, I think it looks like a lot of fun, variety and long matches
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
To grab the Dustin Browder award ... gosh iGrok - u never learn? ^^
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On July 08 2011 18:28 iGrok wrote:
By the time anyone wants to take the golds, they'll have a large army and will down the rocks in seconds - so why put the rocks there at all?
Fine! I'll get rid of them. Happy now!?
On July 08 2011 20:06 Ragoo wrote:Wow those aesthetics :O Your textures and use of it is f-ing stunning!! I want to play this map just because it's so cool looking^^ Some ideas: - remove the rocks at the third and widen the ramp from the third to the middle a bit; I think right now the third favors T/P cause Zerg can't take it very quickly and once it's up for T/P it's rather easy to defend cause of the small ramp and it's very easy to take another very safe base vs Zerg on 2/8 o'clock - 2/8 o'clock bases aren't vulnerable enough to justify a full base, I'd cut one gas and 1-2 minerals; otherwise T/P will turtle for Deathball against Zerg - the watchtowers in the middle are both only accessible when you hold that small space in the middle, meaning once you control that area you have both watchtowers and I don't see both players holding one tower each; I don't like it and would suggest rotating those ramps to the towers by something like 90° clockwise and thus make it possible for each player to control one tower - rocks at the gold don't serve any purpose, you can't take those golds early anyway, just like on Metalopolis - I don't know about those big rocks, in ZvP I think on the one hand they give Zerg some time when Protoss tries to push through this very narrow path and abuse the shit out of forcefields, on the other hand they deny Zerg a possible harass path into the third for some time. Keep them or remove them, either way is fine imo Other than that I love the layout, I think it looks like a lot of fun, variety and long matches
Ooo, good suggestions. I was on the fence about the watch towers. They've been an issue from the beginning. Plus, I'll widen those ramps to the thirds. No turtling allowed. I don't know about removing the rocks though. I think Zerg might be able to take their third too quickly without them.
On July 08 2011 20:08 dezi wrote:
To grab the Dustin Browder award ... gosh iGrok - u never learn? ^^
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Mikey, u gotta finish that tutorial of yours man I wanna know how to do textures meself!
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On July 09 2011 01:48 ihasaKAROT wrote:Mikey, u gotta finish that tutorial of yours man I wanna know how to do textures meself!
I'm working on it now. This map was also a guinea pig to learn the ins and outs of making textures, which is another reason why it's taken me so long to update this map. I'm confident I can give an in-depth and informative guide now. How lucky are you?!
In my last post I forgot to thank Ragoo for the compliment, so, thank you! Where are my manners?
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