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[UMS] Macro Or Die - The Competitive Macro Trainer - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 21 Next All
DarthXX
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia998 Posts
May 05 2011 13:45 GMT
#101
What happens when I'm saving resources to pop out a bunch of infestors just as the energy upgrade passes 30 seconds? Or what happens if I get dropped and don't want to make units at my hatch which is about to go down? or similar for toss/terran if you lose a key production.tech structure?

I think there are too many situations where you can stockpile money legit but nonetheless this map is good to train up ur macro in the lower leagues.
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
May 05 2011 14:52 GMT
#102
On May 05 2011 22:45 DarthXX wrote:
What happens when I'm saving resources to pop out a bunch of infestors just as the energy upgrade passes 30 seconds? Or what happens if I get dropped and don't want to make units at my hatch which is about to go down? or similar for toss/terran if you lose a key production.tech structure?

I think there are too many situations where you can stockpile money legit but nonetheless this map is good to train up ur macro in the lower leagues.


I'm not going to pretend that there won't be downsides to the limitations created by the cushion, but for the most part I think they are very minor.

For your infestor bit, post a BO and timings, or better yet a replay. It's really hard to answer questions like this without seeing how you got to the point of deciding how many infestors you're going to save for and when.

If you get dropped and don't want to make units at your hatch, I'm assuming you are sacrificing this hatch because you don't think you'll be able to stop the drop within 30 seconds. IMO, this is a clear indication that you should do 1 of the 2, if you don't have enough larvae at your other hatches:

  • spend that excess money on a new hatch/production/tech strutcture somewhere else, you obviously need the extra production capacity to keep up with your income.
  • or putting up static defenses to help against a drop in your other bases, you obviously can afford to spend some of your surplus on defense to ensure that your income doesn't get hurt any more.



*BTW, I FIXED THE SPECTATOR BUG!!! I got fancy and tried to use talking animations in MP. Evidently this will not work in a game with spectators.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
BossPlaya
Profile Joined September 2010
United States141 Posts
May 05 2011 16:13 GMT
#103
This is the best map ever!!! As a bronze player trying to climb the ladder, I feel like this map was created with the noob player in mind. After just 1 round, I was able to locate my weaknesses (I have a lot!) and improve them in my ladder games. I love the warnings that it provides and how it doesn't allow for excessive queuing. This map rules! 10/10
Paid tha cost to be The Boss.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
May 05 2011 19:07 GMT
#104
I always like these concepts but I think this needs to be more challenging. Currently, APM trainer on blistering sands map has this one beat in terms of benefit to the player.

If you can execute any build on APM trainer without losing a single probe, you can play at a masters level. That's how I train my new builds to make sure I'm ready to use them without having my overall game fall to shit. How does this custom map help a player on the same level?
D!kane
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3 Posts
May 05 2011 20:20 GMT
#105
On May 06 2011 04:07 Jayrod wrote:
Currently, APM trainer on blistering sands map has this one beat in terms of benefit to the player.


Which Custom Map do yo mean exactly? Is it called "APM trainer"?

Greetz D!kane
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
May 05 2011 21:13 GMT
#106
On May 06 2011 04:07 Jayrod wrote:
I always like these concepts but I think this needs to be more challenging. Currently, APM trainer on blistering sands map has this one beat in terms of benefit to the player.

If you can execute any build on APM trainer without losing a single probe, you can play at a masters level. That's how I train my new builds to make sure I'm ready to use them without having my overall game fall to shit. How does this custom map help a player on the same level?


How does an APM trainer compare to a Macro trainer? The titles of each UMS say it all. If you want help adding extra probe micro cycles into your Build Order then Macro or Die is definitely not the place to go.

Macro or Die is about making smart decisions with your resources in time-sensitive situations, maximizing your efficiency, and being hyper aware of your economies' status at all times.

If you think it is too easy, then up the AI level or play against another Master player. You'd be amazed at how humbling it can be when another player exposes areas where your macro ability falls to that of a silver player.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
scottycopter
Profile Joined October 2010
United States46 Posts
May 06 2011 00:12 GMT
#107

Hi scottycoptor,

In Green Tea AI, Very Easy = Blizzard's very hard AI. I will be changing this to be Blizzard's medium AI in the future. I suggest that you use the Easy setting, this is the only AI without vision hack/cheat. However, even then you have to be viligant about driving away or killing scouts before they can see anything. If Green Tea senses a weakness it will try to exploit it.



Gotcha. Thanks for the response and I'll make the necessary changes next time I play with the AI.

Two other things that did come up though:

1) I noticed that there are no announcements on the left side of the screen of in-game events (units/buildings completed, chrono boost expired, workers under attack, etc)

2) If I engage in a battle and it ends unfavorably for me, my supply drops pretty steeply. This causes my resources to greatly exceed my cushion and triggers a nuke. While I can normally start rebuilding quick enough, it can sometimes be problematic. If there were a 20-30s delay in cushion dropping after a food loss, I think this could be prevented. No idea how feasible (or necessary) that change would be though.

As a final note, I did want to say that these maps were a fantastic idea!
Ydriel
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Italy516 Posts
May 06 2011 00:39 GMT
#108
This looks pretty awesome actually! I'll make sure to give this a try tonight with a few friends
<3 SC2 <3<3 Dota 2. Steam ID: HellS
mnmnmmnnmnmn
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada6 Posts
May 06 2011 02:34 GMT
#109
just played a game now, got so many warnings for the nuke. I dont care what kind of defects or bugs it still has, it helps me a lot! THANKS.
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
May 06 2011 02:52 GMT
#110
On May 06 2011 09:12 scottycopter wrote:
Gotcha. Thanks for the response and I'll make the necessary changes next time I play with the AI.

Two other things that did come up though:

1) I noticed that there are no announcements on the left side of the screen of in-game events (units/buildings completed, chrono boost expired, workers under attack, etc)


I removed these because there was a lot of things coming up on the screen at once, and I felt that these were becoming more of a distraction than anything.

On May 06 2011 09:12 scottycopter wrote:
2) If I engage in a battle and it ends unfavorably for me, my supply drops pretty steeply. This causes my resources to greatly exceed my cushion and triggers a nuke. While I can normally start rebuilding quick enough, it can sometimes be problematic. If there were a 20-30s delay in cushion dropping after a food loss, I think this could be prevented. No idea how feasible (or necessary) that change would be though.

As a final note, I did want to say that these maps were a fantastic idea!


Why is your supply dropping? Your cushion is based on your supplies available not supplies used. Do you play Zerg? If you are bringing overlords with your army, you should anticipate building some as you move out.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
scottycopter
Profile Joined October 2010
United States46 Posts
May 06 2011 05:09 GMT
#111
On May 06 2011 11:52 _Major wrote:

Why is your supply dropping? Your cushion is based on your supplies available not supplies used. Do you play Zerg? If you are bringing overlords with your army, you should anticipate building some as you move out.


I thought it was based off supply being used. Seems I just have a really bad habit of not macroing during battles then D:
justme!
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden3 Posts
May 06 2011 06:00 GMT
#112
Would really like to have this map on EU server! _Major if there anything I could do to hurry the process to get it to EU, please tell.
brlalwlrlrlrrr!
Dubz
Profile Joined October 2010
United States242 Posts
May 06 2011 06:59 GMT
#113
so if my protoss opponent goes dt's and im saving my cc energy for scans im going to get nuked?
" mefjupl: if this game was balanced and we would find two players with almost same skills, in mirror match there would be a draw each game"
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
May 06 2011 07:38 GMT
#114
Playing a standard PvT this was really great practice for working on mechanics. I'll report back when I find any significant problems that haven't already been pointed out. Not bad.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Rean
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands808 Posts
May 06 2011 10:12 GMT
#115
On May 06 2011 15:59 Dubz wrote:
so if my protoss opponent goes dt's and im saving my cc energy for scans im going to get nuked?


You've got a 110 energy cushion, if you need more you're better off building turrets.
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
May 06 2011 13:28 GMT
#116
On May 06 2011 19:12 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2011 15:59 Dubz wrote:
so if my protoss opponent goes dt's and im saving my cc energy for scans im going to get nuked?


You've got a 110 energy cushion, if you need more you're better off building turrets.


^^^This.

Also, you will only get nuked for failing to spend your harvested resources efficiently. If you fail to maximize the potential of your macro by getting supply blocked, or sitting on energy, then you will only be prevented from going up in level on the next opportunity.

This happens for two reasons:
  • Your avg macro level is a multiplier for your score; high levels will have much higher scores. The community has expressed that no one should be rewarded for failing to use the macro unit abilities correctly.
  • Higher levels make your cushion smaller. If you are not making the most of your economy's potential at the cushion you are at, then it would be cruel and irresponsible to force you to do better with a smaller cushion.

Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
mnmnmmnnmnmn
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada6 Posts
May 06 2011 14:35 GMT
#117
can anybody tell me what does Silver (x17 cushion) mean? it shows on the right hand bottom of my screen when i was playing. and sometimes i will have something like Gold (x15) and stuff?
mnmnmmnnmnmn
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada6 Posts
May 06 2011 14:47 GMT
#118
GreenTea ai seems to be harder than the ai that comes with the game itself. Would you guys please add the following three very commonly played maps? i need some practice on different maps. it really helps!! thanks.

Delta Quadrant
Shattered Temple
Lost Temple

Enjoy!
mnmnmmnnmnmn
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada6 Posts
May 06 2011 14:59 GMT
#119
... ... wish the above three maps can be added as 1v1 maps. ...
_Major
Profile Joined April 2011
United States107 Posts
May 06 2011 15:59 GMT
#120
On May 06 2011 23:35 mnmnmmnnmnmn wrote:
can anybody tell me what does Silver (x17 cushion) mean? it shows on the right hand bottom of my screen when i was playing. and sometimes i will have something like Gold (x15) and stuff?


Your cushion is the amount of resources you are allowed to stockpile before the Ghosts will be sent out to Nuke you. This is determined by the factor shown and your supplies available. It's a rough estimate, but silver players tend to keep their resources at about 17 or 18 times their supplies available (i.e. @ 100 food, they are floating 1700-1800 resources, etc...)

The game periodically checks to see if you are satisfying all objectives, and after these checks it will show you your current level in the bottom right of the screen. If you are completing all of your objectives for that round, then it will raise your level, lowering your cushion. If you aren't then it will do nothing. If you are letting nukes go off then it will lower your level, raising your cushion.

Everyone starts out at the Max cushion level - Bronze (20x). Over time their applied macro abilities will determine what level they are able to reach. This means that the early game stages are essentially the same for all players, and that there is still flexibility for stockpiling if you want to. But, as players get to 6 minutes into the game (the fastest you can reach Diamond level) the true differences in ability will be obvious. Good players will be able to keep producing both supply, workers, and army - leaving them with very little leftover resources.

Being able to reach a high level is only part of this. What's more important is staying at a high level. The score screen will show your average macro level in contrast to your current level, which you will see throughout the game. This is determined by the amount of resources gathered at each level, and is the best indicator of how well you played.
Do you practice on Macro Or Die maps? You should - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216550
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