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[2]iCCup Pawn by monitor
After a while off from map making, I have returned with much inspiration. As many of you know, I have been giving detailed responses and guides on peoples maps to spread the knowledge over TeamLiquid. Ask me anytime if you want detailed feedback, I'm always glad to help.
+ Show Spoiler [LQ Angle] +
- Spawns: 10o'clock and 4o'clock
- Size: 128x96
- Expansions: 10
- XNT: 2
- Tileset: Avenus Space
A lot of small tedious parts of the map require pathing blockers. I have included a picture of details, bounds, and pathing. So look at the picture below if you're confused!- The backdoor 3rd''s can be dropped
- The 1gas middle expansions cannot be dropped
- Various high grounds are fillers/sight blocker
Pathing Image (shows sides of map not visible in-game)
+ Show Spoiler +
Main has 8 min patches.
Nat has 8 min patches.
3rd has 7 min patches.
HY has 6 min patches.
1gas 7 min patches.
Close Image- Main, Nat, 1gas
+ Show Spoiler +
Map Analyzer Pictures
Rush Distances
+ Show Spoiler +
Bases:
+ Show Spoiler +
If the images do not resize themselves, you should open them in a separate window and view full screen.
Keep in mind this map is still being developed, so all feedback is appreciated. Textures and doodads are done for now, but if a demand comes for elaboration, it can happen. Now an official iCCup map.
Changelog
+ Show Spoiler +
-----1.0
.Multiple unreleased beta versions
.Central LoS Blockers removed
.Doodads added on unpathable highground
.Texture cleanup
.Path blockers completed
.Now official iCCup map
-------2.0
.Textures sharpened
.Texturing clarified
.HY 1x ramp replaced with low ground path
.3rds moved closer to center
.Middle high ground removed
-----2.1
.HY moved pushed into center slightly
.defined Textures
.fixed symmetry of all expansions
.widened small path from HY to middle
.widened wide path from HY to middle ramp
LiquidPedia 2 entry: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ICCup_Pawn
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Wow, very nice. Excellent use of space in particular.
The natural is pretty secure despite having 2 entrances, seeing as enemies are funneled pretty well by the extended chokes.
LOS is going to be a bitch in the middle :/ Air is pretty important. And colossus can't abuse those cliffs in the center - ehh... not sure how I feel about that.
I'll have to play on it to be sure, but that super-choked area just looks really awkward
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Very nice Monitor, this is the most original map I think I've seen for SCII.
At first, I thought Match Point, but that was wrong. This map is very original and I cannot tell what inspired this magnificent work of art. It's like its own map, and I love it!
The middle works very well, acting as a funnel and clearly shows the RvR of using it. Like iGrok said, the natural is easy to defend considering it has two chokes. This is a really good feature to have, because most maps that have two chokes to a natural make the natural hard to control. Nice job doing that (this may be a problem on Industry, not sure, just thought of it)! I really like the watchtower placement as well. That and the natural + third layout make this map amazing and really original, something I haven't seen before! Is there any chance this will become an iCCup map? It should be.
Out of curiosity, why are there only 7 mineral fields at the thirds?
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Wow, very nice. Excellent use of space in particular.
The natural is pretty secure despite having 2 entrances, seeing as enemies are funneled pretty well by the extended chokes.
LOS is going to be a bitch in the middle :/ Air is pretty important. And colossus can't abuse those cliffs in the center - ehh... not sure how I feel about that.
I'll have to play on it to be sure, but that super-choked area just looks really awkward
The LoS blockers were added originally when the center was much larger, to break it up. I share opinions that they are unnecessary now, thats for reminding me to remove them! 
Very nice Monitor, this is the most original map I think I've seen for SCII.
At first, I thought Match Point, but that was wrong. This map is very original and I cannot tell what inspired this magnificent work of art. It's like its own map, and I love it!
The middle works very well, acting as a funnel and clearly shows the RvR of using it. Like iGrok said, the natural is easy to defend considering it has two chokes. This is a really good feature to have, because most maps that have two chokes to a natural make the natural hard to control. Nice job doing that (this may be a problem on Industry, not sure, just thought of it)! I really like the watchtower placement as well. That and the natural + third layout make this map amazing and really original, something I haven't seen before! Is there any chance this will become an iCCup map? It should be.
Out of curiosity, why are there only 7 mineral fields at the thirds?
Haha thanks. I think Industry could have a small problem with that, but not much. It should be fine.
The 3rds couldn't be too resource heavy because its very easy to take. The 3rd is more dangerous to hold than the center expo, but its also got another gas. Hopefully, the distances and 3rd harass balance it out.
The center expo needed to have 1 gas (but we're still testing) because map control was so easy from one choke. Otherwise, you got 4 free expos from controlling the ~medium wide choke up to the center.
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I'm pretty happy with the way the map turned out. It's gone through a few different stages in it's development but all in all I think this is the best configuration. Some of the features need some more testing to confirm but I don't see a whole lot changing. 8)
This map is a perfect example of what happens when the iCCup mapmaking team puts a few of their heads together and irons out a great design. You can all expect maps of this caliber and higher in the future. (The original design is monitor's but naturally the team's feedback plays a big role in a map's evolution. For example, look at the many different maps in the Beta test of iCCup Obsidian Inferno.)
Also, map has been added to the iCCup Map Pool and will be featured in an iCCup Map Series event in January 2011 (exact date&time still pending~)
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holy crap this is a nice map.
Im normally VERY critical of peoples maps (tbh i think 90% of the TL maps on here are complete garbage), but this one... very nice.
Im still sceptical about the ability of the community to get ANY customs used anytime soon, no matter how good they may be. I think you guys need to crank out at least 5 of this level of map... not including any of the ones you already have (unless they are tweaked to absolute perfection), and then have 1 major ass tourney use ONLY your map pool. and it has to be big enough where you can get the TOP players (at least multiple code A+) to have to practice on your maps.
Good luck tho, awesome job
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On December 26 2010 15:03 danson wrote:
holy crap this is a nice map.
Im normally VERY critical of peoples maps (tbh i think 90% of the TL maps on here are complete garbage), but this one... very nice.
Im still sceptical about the ability of the community to get ANY customs used anytime soon, no matter how good they may be. I think you guys need to crank out at least 5 of this level of map... not including any of the ones you already have (unless they are tweaked to absolute perfection), and then have 1 major ass tourney use ONLY your map pool. and it has to be big enough where you can get the TOP players (at least multiple code A+) to have to practice on your maps.
Good luck tho, awesome job
Thanks! You have a good idea to get 5 or so top maps, then use them in a tournament.
While you're hear, what do you think of Starlight Breaker by neobowman?
+ Show Spoiler +
I personally love it, it has a perfect size (same as Pawn, 128x96), perfect distances, and great balance. Do you think its good enough, or does it need perfecting? Or do you not like the layout?
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On December 26 2010 15:09 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 15:03 danson wrote:
holy crap this is a nice map.
Im normally VERY critical of peoples maps (tbh i think 90% of the TL maps on here are complete garbage), but this one... very nice.
Im still sceptical about the ability of the community to get ANY customs used anytime soon, no matter how good they may be. I think you guys need to crank out at least 5 of this level of map... not including any of the ones you already have (unless they are tweaked to absolute perfection), and then have 1 major ass tourney use ONLY your map pool. and it has to be big enough where you can get the TOP players (at least multiple code A+) to have to practice on your maps.
Good luck tho, awesome job Thanks! You have a good idea to get 5 or so top maps, then use them in a tournament. While you're hear, what do you think of Starlight Breaker by neobowman? + Show Spoiler +I personally love it, it has a perfect size (same as Pawn, 128x96), perfect distances, and great balance. Do you think its good enough, or does it need perfecting? Or do you not like the layout?
Ah, yes, Starlight Breaker is also an example of a unique map, sorry I forgot about that one. this and that map are really unique.
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On December 26 2010 15:33 Antares777 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 15:09 monitor wrote:On December 26 2010 15:03 danson wrote:
holy crap this is a nice map.
Im normally VERY critical of peoples maps (tbh i think 90% of the TL maps on here are complete garbage), but this one... very nice.
Im still sceptical about the ability of the community to get ANY customs used anytime soon, no matter how good they may be. I think you guys need to crank out at least 5 of this level of map... not including any of the ones you already have (unless they are tweaked to absolute perfection), and then have 1 major ass tourney use ONLY your map pool. and it has to be big enough where you can get the TOP players (at least multiple code A+) to have to practice on your maps.
Good luck tho, awesome job Thanks! You have a good idea to get 5 or so top maps, then use them in a tournament. While you're hear, what do you think of Starlight Breaker by neobowman? + Show Spoiler +I personally love it, it has a perfect size (same as Pawn, 128x96), perfect distances, and great balance. Do you think its good enough, or does it need perfecting? Or do you not like the layout? Ah, yes, Starlight Breaker is also an example of a unique map, sorry I forgot about that one. this and that map are really unique.
I was more wondering if "danson" thought Starlight Breaker would make it to iCCup top 5, if we had something like that.
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Ill preface this by saying im not that great. ~2kish, So take this for what its worth, but I appreciate you asking me.
I think the layout could use some major overhaul
I think the 5ths are a complete waste of space, and should be rethought. I cant picture a game in my head where they are being used so close to the obvious choice for your opps third (if a game lasted that long.
I dont like the 3rd's minerals facing in, or at least i think the whole base could be shifted to the out side (or further away if you removed/moved the 5ths)
I think this map is so open, and linear (if you think the majority of games would be 2/3 base, which is most likely), that Air play would be heavily discouraged. as would drops/warpins/nydus (lol)
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this seems harsh, but i still think its better than all but shakuras on bnet, ill toss a few not very well thought out suggestions
maybe move the LOS/drop ledge to oversee the gold instead of natural, then move the natrual, and third away from the opponents fifth. This serves 3 purposes. Makes taking a third less risky, improves the chances of the fifth being used, and it would encourage harrasment of both the gold and the main by drops.
also, maybe some more segmentation overall, but especially more division from the 5ths and thirds,
Hope these make sense to you, who knows if im right or wrong, since ive never seem games played on them, but i hope to soon!
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On December 26 2010 15:53 danson wrote:
Ill preface this by saying im not that great. ~2kish, So take this for what its worth, but I appreciate you asking me.
I think the layout could use some major overhaul
I think the 5ths are a complete waste of space, and should be rethought. I cant picture a game in my head where they are being used so close to the obvious choice for your opps third (if a game lasted that long.
I dont like the 3rd's minerals facing in, or at least i think the whole base could be shifted to the out side (or further away if you removed/moved the 5ths)
I think this map is so open, and linear (if you think the majority of games would be 2/3 base, which is most likely), that Air play would be heavily discouraged. as would drops/warpins/nydus (lol)
===============
this seems harsh, but i still think its better than all but shakuras on bnet, ill toss a few not very well thought out suggestions
maybe move the LOS/drop ledge to oversee the gold instead of natural, then move the natrual, and third away from the opponents fifth. This serves 3 purposes. Makes taking a third less risky, improves the chances of the fifth being used, and it would encourage harrasment of both the gold and the main by drops.
also, maybe some more segmentation overall, but especially more division from the 5ths and thirds,
Hope these make sense to you, who knows if im right or wrong, since ive never seem games played on them, but i hope to soon!
Thanks for the in-depth feedback, I'll make sure neobowman sees it.
I totally agree on making the best 5 and getting top players to do it. That is sort of what were doing with the monthly map pool, but I don't have any say in what goes into that. But anything we can do to promote custom maps is going to be better than Blizz maps....
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My favorite maps out of the community so far:
Sanshorn mists
Fury
Europa
sungsu crossing
There are about 5 other that if I could make small adjustments to then i would like them as well, but I think these four (+ pawn) are the best sc2 has put foward so far.
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On December 26 2010 16:07 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 15:53 danson wrote:
Ill preface this by saying im not that great. ~2kish, So take this for what its worth, but I appreciate you asking me.
I think the layout could use some major overhaul
I think the 5ths are a complete waste of space, and should be rethought. I cant picture a game in my head where they are being used so close to the obvious choice for your opps third (if a game lasted that long.
I dont like the 3rd's minerals facing in, or at least i think the whole base could be shifted to the out side (or further away if you removed/moved the 5ths)
I think this map is so open, and linear (if you think the majority of games would be 2/3 base, which is most likely), that Air play would be heavily discouraged. as would drops/warpins/nydus (lol)
===============
this seems harsh, but i still think its better than all but shakuras on bnet, ill toss a few not very well thought out suggestions
maybe move the LOS/drop ledge to oversee the gold instead of natural, then move the natrual, and third away from the opponents fifth. This serves 3 purposes. Makes taking a third less risky, improves the chances of the fifth being used, and it would encourage harrasment of both the gold and the main by drops.
also, maybe some more segmentation overall, but especially more division from the 5ths and thirds,
Hope these make sense to you, who knows if im right or wrong, since ive never seem games played on them, but i hope to soon! Thanks for the in-depth feedback, I'll make sure neobowman sees it. I totally agree on making the best 5 and getting top players to do it. That is sort of what were doing with the monthly map pool, but I don't have any say in what goes into that. But anything we can do to promote custom maps is going to be better than Blizz maps....
I think you guys just lost a valuable timing window between the GSLs, where there was enough downtime from major tourneys that you could have pulled some big names (and viewers!!) to practice/play on your maps because there is just nothing else going on right now. 5K people a night are doing nothing but f5ing to watch huk and idra ladder...
It may not be cheap, or easy, to get a big (at least 5k) tourney to use your maps, but I think if you timed it right, the maps were good, and it led to an amazing/exciting tourney (luck required), then the desire by players and the community for good maps would shoot through the roof.
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On December 26 2010 16:15 danson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 16:07 monitor wrote:On December 26 2010 15:53 danson wrote:
Ill preface this by saying im not that great. ~2kish, So take this for what its worth, but I appreciate you asking me.
I think the layout could use some major overhaul
I think the 5ths are a complete waste of space, and should be rethought. I cant picture a game in my head where they are being used so close to the obvious choice for your opps third (if a game lasted that long.
I dont like the 3rd's minerals facing in, or at least i think the whole base could be shifted to the out side (or further away if you removed/moved the 5ths)
I think this map is so open, and linear (if you think the majority of games would be 2/3 base, which is most likely), that Air play would be heavily discouraged. as would drops/warpins/nydus (lol)
===============
this seems harsh, but i still think its better than all but shakuras on bnet, ill toss a few not very well thought out suggestions
maybe move the LOS/drop ledge to oversee the gold instead of natural, then move the natrual, and third away from the opponents fifth. This serves 3 purposes. Makes taking a third less risky, improves the chances of the fifth being used, and it would encourage harrasment of both the gold and the main by drops.
also, maybe some more segmentation overall, but especially more division from the 5ths and thirds,
Hope these make sense to you, who knows if im right or wrong, since ive never seem games played on them, but i hope to soon! Thanks for the in-depth feedback, I'll make sure neobowman sees it. I totally agree on making the best 5 and getting top players to do it. That is sort of what were doing with the monthly map pool, but I don't have any say in what goes into that. But anything we can do to promote custom maps is going to be better than Blizz maps.... I think you guys just lost a valuable timing window between the GSLs, where there was enough downtime from major tourneys that you could have pulled some big names (and viewers!!) to practice/play on your maps because there is just nothing else going on right now. 5K people a night are doing nothing but f5ing to watch huk and idra ladder... It may not be cheap, or easy, to get a big (at least 5k) tourney to use your maps, but I think if you timed it right, the maps were good, and it led to an amazing/exciting tourney (luck required), then the desire by players and the community for good maps would shoot through the roof.
Yeah that'd be great. iCCup.Diamond (CEO of iCCup) has some big announcement coming mid-January that has something to do with making custom maps popular. My older map iCCup Neo Avalanche:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ICCup_Neo_Avalanche
Has been used in a lot of small tournaments, I think the biggest was $50..heh. We have looked into getting them into bigger tournaments, and I'm sure we will continue to- but tourneys are just so hard right now because of ladder. If only blizzard would hand off ladder map pool to iCCup control... what would they lose from something like limiting us, but giving us certain control like:
*3 Blizzard maps at all times
*5 custom maps at all times
*0-2 Map changes per month, on first day of month
I'm considering writing on official Blizzard forums asking for this gift... what do you think?
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On December 26 2010 16:31 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 16:15 danson wrote:On December 26 2010 16:07 monitor wrote:On December 26 2010 15:53 danson wrote:
Ill preface this by saying im not that great. ~2kish, So take this for what its worth, but I appreciate you asking me.
I think the layout could use some major overhaul
I think the 5ths are a complete waste of space, and should be rethought. I cant picture a game in my head where they are being used so close to the obvious choice for your opps third (if a game lasted that long.
I dont like the 3rd's minerals facing in, or at least i think the whole base could be shifted to the out side (or further away if you removed/moved the 5ths)
I think this map is so open, and linear (if you think the majority of games would be 2/3 base, which is most likely), that Air play would be heavily discouraged. as would drops/warpins/nydus (lol)
===============
this seems harsh, but i still think its better than all but shakuras on bnet, ill toss a few not very well thought out suggestions
maybe move the LOS/drop ledge to oversee the gold instead of natural, then move the natrual, and third away from the opponents fifth. This serves 3 purposes. Makes taking a third less risky, improves the chances of the fifth being used, and it would encourage harrasment of both the gold and the main by drops.
also, maybe some more segmentation overall, but especially more division from the 5ths and thirds,
Hope these make sense to you, who knows if im right or wrong, since ive never seem games played on them, but i hope to soon! Thanks for the in-depth feedback, I'll make sure neobowman sees it. I totally agree on making the best 5 and getting top players to do it. That is sort of what were doing with the monthly map pool, but I don't have any say in what goes into that. But anything we can do to promote custom maps is going to be better than Blizz maps.... I think you guys just lost a valuable timing window between the GSLs, where there was enough downtime from major tourneys that you could have pulled some big names (and viewers!!) to practice/play on your maps because there is just nothing else going on right now. 5K people a night are doing nothing but f5ing to watch huk and idra ladder... It may not be cheap, or easy, to get a big (at least 5k) tourney to use your maps, but I think if you timed it right, the maps were good, and it led to an amazing/exciting tourney (luck required), then the desire by players and the community for good maps would shoot through the roof. Yeah that'd be great. iCCup.Diamond (CEO of iCCup) has some big announcement coming mid-January that has something to do with making custom maps popular. My older map iCCup Neo Avalanche: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ICCup_Neo_AvalancheHas been used in a lot of small tournaments, I think the biggest was $50..heh. We have looked into getting them into bigger tournaments, and I'm sure we will continue to- but tourneys are just so hard right now because of ladder. If only blizzard would hand off ladder map pool to iCCup control... what would they lose from something like limiting us, but giving us certain control like: *3 Blizzard maps at all times *5 custom maps at all times *0-2 Map changes per month, on first day of month I'm considering writing on official Blizzard forums asking for this gift... what do you think?
would be nice.. but it wont happen : /
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Good to see you're still doin the map-making thing, monitor
Hope you and iCCup has some success bringing some good maps to the scene
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On December 26 2010 17:12 danson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 16:31 monitor wrote:On December 26 2010 16:15 danson wrote:On December 26 2010 16:07 monitor wrote:On December 26 2010 15:53 danson wrote:
Ill preface this by saying im not that great. ~2kish, So take this for what its worth, but I appreciate you asking me.
I think the layout could use some major overhaul
I think the 5ths are a complete waste of space, and should be rethought. I cant picture a game in my head where they are being used so close to the obvious choice for your opps third (if a game lasted that long.
I dont like the 3rd's minerals facing in, or at least i think the whole base could be shifted to the out side (or further away if you removed/moved the 5ths)
I think this map is so open, and linear (if you think the majority of games would be 2/3 base, which is most likely), that Air play would be heavily discouraged. as would drops/warpins/nydus (lol)
===============
this seems harsh, but i still think its better than all but shakuras on bnet, ill toss a few not very well thought out suggestions
maybe move the LOS/drop ledge to oversee the gold instead of natural, then move the natrual, and third away from the opponents fifth. This serves 3 purposes. Makes taking a third less risky, improves the chances of the fifth being used, and it would encourage harrasment of both the gold and the main by drops.
also, maybe some more segmentation overall, but especially more division from the 5ths and thirds,
Hope these make sense to you, who knows if im right or wrong, since ive never seem games played on them, but i hope to soon! Thanks for the in-depth feedback, I'll make sure neobowman sees it. I totally agree on making the best 5 and getting top players to do it. That is sort of what were doing with the monthly map pool, but I don't have any say in what goes into that. But anything we can do to promote custom maps is going to be better than Blizz maps.... I think you guys just lost a valuable timing window between the GSLs, where there was enough downtime from major tourneys that you could have pulled some big names (and viewers!!) to practice/play on your maps because there is just nothing else going on right now. 5K people a night are doing nothing but f5ing to watch huk and idra ladder... It may not be cheap, or easy, to get a big (at least 5k) tourney to use your maps, but I think if you timed it right, the maps were good, and it led to an amazing/exciting tourney (luck required), then the desire by players and the community for good maps would shoot through the roof. Yeah that'd be great. iCCup.Diamond (CEO of iCCup) has some big announcement coming mid-January that has something to do with making custom maps popular. My older map iCCup Neo Avalanche: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ICCup_Neo_AvalancheHas been used in a lot of small tournaments, I think the biggest was $50..heh. We have looked into getting them into bigger tournaments, and I'm sure we will continue to- but tourneys are just so hard right now because of ladder. If only blizzard would hand off ladder map pool to iCCup control... what would they lose from something like limiting us, but giving us certain control like: *3 Blizzard maps at all times *5 custom maps at all times *0-2 Map changes per month, on first day of month I'm considering writing on official Blizzard forums asking for this gift... what do you think? would be nice.. but it wont happen : /
The post on bnet that I've yet to see a blue reply to
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You guys on iccup should make all of your maps downloadable for all of us who aren't on the us server 
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On December 27 2010 03:49 2-_-n wrote:You guys on iccup should make all of your maps downloadable for all of us who aren't on the us server
Would you be willing to upload it on EU or whatever you are on? If I can get your email, I'll send it over.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/evpxn.jpg)
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