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[A] Starcraft 2 Brood War - Page 223

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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WarpTV
Profile Joined August 2011
205 Posts
September 15 2013 16:20 GMT
#4441
Here is a screen shot form the KR server too btw

No Diflier or lurker
[image loading]

I checked every map on KR, I will check EU next
L3monsta
Profile Joined May 2012
New Zealand149 Posts
September 22 2013 08:27 GMT
#4442
Hey MavercK,
In case you haven't seen it already there's people asking for custom map with both SC2 and BW in it. Something I've wanted personally for a long time, however its a big project. Just thought you might like to know in case you wanted to get involved or take on the mantle..

here's the discussion on Battlenet http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10014521427?page=1
WarpTV
Profile Joined August 2011
205 Posts
September 24 2013 15:32 GMT
#4443
Hey, any luck getting the hotkeys fixed? me and my friends stopped playing b/c of it. Could you release you work so some one can copy then fix it. and republish it?
RobertBrian
Profile Joined September 2013
United Kingdom3 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-25 08:07:36
September 25 2013 08:04 GMT
#4444
My friend is thinking of getting Starcraft and he wants to save money. Do you need to buy both Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm to play or could he buy just Heart of The Swarm?
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
September 25 2013 09:52 GMT
#4445
On September 25 2013 00:32 WarpTV wrote:
Hey, any luck getting the hotkeys fixed? me and my friends stopped playing b/c of it. Could you release you work so some one can copy then fix it. and republish it?


I've stripped hotkeys entirely and doing them from scratch. Also trying to fix that hotkey profile editor.
I'll try do an update this weekend.

On September 25 2013 17:04 RobertBrian wrote:
My friend is thinking of getting Starcraft and he wants to save money. Do you need to buy both Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm to play or could he buy just Heart of The Swarm?


presently, yea you'll need HotS, theres assets in HotS that i wanted to use. I tried looking at keeping in WoL but the general consensus is Blizzard will probably ban the mod if i include HotS in a WoL mod.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-28 15:29:29
September 28 2013 09:06 GMT
#4446
Doing to do an update tonight.

In preparation I'll be removing SC2BW from every region and re uploading it.

Main changes in this version are hopefully a fix for Hotkeys
Rework of Siege Tank damage in Siege mode
Rework of air unit stacking, performance increase hopefully.

I havn't done an Update in awhile, i fixed all the bugs i found as i came across them but there are probably a few remaining.
I also have a nice virtual machine on a 1tb internet connection i can use to do updates which should speed everything up and remove 99% of the tedium in updating.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-28 23:49:38
September 28 2013 23:44 GMT
#4447
The people over at starbow have been downright obsessed about matching their income rate to BW's for the last 2 weeks now (ever since they switched to BW economy a month ago).

Their first version was very similar to SC2BW. Turns out that matched BW income really well between 0 and 2 saturation. But between 2 and 3 saturation, the numbers were really off (BW's max income rate is much higher than either SC2BW or Starbow was).

[image loading]

Anyway. They identified some quirks of BW mining and set a couple of new triggers for workers. The most important of which I think was triggering out the way SC2 has hardcoded workers to queue rather than bounce if a currently mining worker has less than a defined time limit remaining before finishing up. This only applies if all patches have at least 1 current harvester (if there are 0 current harvesters at any patch, workers will always bounce immediately, even in SC2). This discrepancy seems to exist in SC2BW. As if you push harvest time below 5.412, the 2nd worker on a mineral patch will always queue (despite arriving there before the currently mining worker is finished).

In order for the max income rate to be pushed higher though, the harvest time needs to be lowered.

The other condition they found was that if all mineral patches were occupied (i.e. all of them currently/simultaneously being actively mined from, workers in BW would always queue as opposed to bounce). This meant that there was no wandering after 3 per patch saturation in BW (well, sometimes there was, but given 1-2 minutes, workers would settle in and mine optimally while always queueing and never wandering). In SC2BW and earlier version of Starbow workers keep wandering even towards infinity saturation. Decemberscalm in the starbow thread managed to set a trigger that makes workers settle in and mine optimally after 3 per patch saturation.

Thought you might be interested. The only problem is, their results don't 100% mirror BW's income rate in the 0-2 saturation range. So they've resorted to even more triggers to make workers even more stupid (like making them turn before they can move when bouncing off from an occupied mineral patch to a new one). They are very close to BW income rate right now.

I still think the feel of SC2BW units is superior, since you've scaled the unit speeds differently than they do (they do a 1:1 scale between maps of the same exact dimensions). So their mutalisk is 3.3 speed for example (I believe). Personally I don't think such slow speeds fit with for example the glide distance that SC2 engine allows. But that, like all things, is a matter of preference...

I still want to get two koreans playing a showmatch in sc2bw somehow. But I don't know any non korea based ex-bw pros except forgg.
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-29 03:51:09
September 29 2013 03:50 GMT
#4448
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2013 08:44 LaLuSh wrote:
The people over at starbow have been downright obsessed about matching their income rate to BW's for the last 2 weeks now (ever since they switched to BW economy a month ago).

Their first version was very similar to SC2BW. Turns out that matched BW income really well between 0 and 2 saturation. But between 2 and 3 saturation, the numbers were really off (BW's max income rate is much higher than either SC2BW or Starbow was).

[image loading]

Anyway. They identified some quirks of BW mining and set a couple of new triggers for workers. The most important of which I think was triggering out the way SC2 has hardcoded workers to queue rather than bounce if a currently mining worker has less than a defined time limit remaining before finishing up. This only applies if all patches have at least 1 current harvester (if there are 0 current harvesters at any patch, workers will always bounce immediately, even in SC2). This discrepancy seems to exist in SC2BW. As if you push harvest time below 5.412, the 2nd worker on a mineral patch will always queue (despite arriving there before the currently mining worker is finished).

In order for the max income rate to be pushed higher though, the harvest time needs to be lowered.

The other condition they found was that if all mineral patches were occupied (i.e. all of them currently/simultaneously being actively mined from, workers in BW would always queue as opposed to bounce). This meant that there was no wandering after 3 per patch saturation in BW (well, sometimes there was, but given 1-2 minutes, workers would settle in and mine optimally while always queueing and never wandering). In SC2BW and earlier version of Starbow workers keep wandering even towards infinity saturation. Decemberscalm in the starbow thread managed to set a trigger that makes workers settle in and mine optimally after 3 per patch saturation.

Thought you might be interested. The only problem is, their results don't 100% mirror BW's income rate in the 0-2 saturation range. So they've resorted to even more triggers to make workers even more stupid (like making them turn before they can move when bouncing off from an occupied mineral patch to a new one). They are very close to BW income rate right now.

I still think the feel of SC2BW units is superior, since you've scaled the unit speeds differently than they do (they do a 1:1 scale between maps of the same exact dimensions). So their mutalisk is 3.3 speed for example (I believe). Personally I don't think such slow speeds fit with for example the glide distance that SC2 engine allows. But that, like all things, is a matter of preference...

I still want to get two koreans playing a showmatch in sc2bw somehow. But I don't know any non korea based ex-bw pros except forgg.



I'll look into it, the first thing you mentioned where works don't queue should already be implemented.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
September 29 2013 04:15 GMT
#4449
If you want I have some useful stuff.

Working vulture target fire while moving. Moving shot that toggles with an attack command instead of only having a small window aka true BW vultures.

Different full damage to shield system. (something seemed wrong with yours).

Eco triggers that ONLY target not currently being mined mineral fields. As far as I can tell yours don't do these making the third workers per patch really inefficient (as you can see in the graph).

BTW, do you somehow have SC2 not playing at fastest?
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
September 29 2013 04:39 GMT
#4450
On September 29 2013 13:15 decemberscalm wrote:
If you want I have some useful stuff.

Working vulture target fire while moving. Moving shot that toggles with an attack command instead of only having a small window aka true BW vultures.

Different full damage to shield system. (something seemed wrong with yours).

Eco triggers that ONLY target not currently being mined mineral fields. As far as I can tell yours don't do these making the third workers per patch really inefficient (as you can see in the graph).

BTW, do you somehow have SC2 not playing at fastest?


well when i initially tested what you're calling eco triggers, it seemed to always choose an unmined mineral patch by default anyway, i'll look into it more with more workers.

Shield damage seems right to me but i recently reworked the Siege Tank because it's Splash wasn't working correctly at all.

Not sure what you mean about the vulture stuff

I definitely have SC2 on fastest.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-29 04:53:00
September 29 2013 04:48 GMT
#4451
On September 29 2013 13:39 MavercK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2013 13:15 decemberscalm wrote:
If you want I have some useful stuff.

Working vulture target fire while moving. Moving shot that toggles with an attack command instead of only having a small window aka true BW vultures.

Different full damage to shield system. (something seemed wrong with yours).

Eco triggers that ONLY target not currently being mined mineral fields. As far as I can tell yours don't do these making the third workers per patch really inefficient (as you can see in the graph).

BTW, do you somehow have SC2 not playing at fastest?


well when i initially tested what you're calling eco triggers, it seemed to always choose an unmined mineral patch by default anyway, i'll look into it more with more workers.

Shield damage seems right to me but i recently reworked the Siege Tank because it's Splash wasn't working correctly at all.

Not sure what you mean about the vulture stuff

I definitely have SC2 on fastest.

What I had to do was mark mineral fields as a custom value 0 or 1 to represent mining or not.
This allowed me to reorder the worker to harvest ONLY from a mineral field who had custom value 0 (not currently being mined). The rest of our tweaking mostly revolves around getting the second worker to stop being so smart at pathing.


So if you have a vulture and try to right click a high templar while moving, it cannot specifically target the high templar.
The moving weapon doesn't receive specific commands (weapon ordered to attack=dead stop).
I made an ability - target unit with flag transient sharing a cooldown with the vulture weapons that smart commands to activate. So right clicking a unit target fires it. A+click doesn't work, but its a functional target fire.

What size is your fighting spirit map dimensions?
I've got pretty slow units to attain the same rush distance on a 1-1 bw FS.


edit: Oi, and I thought me and Lalush figured out what was causing units to dead stop. Seperation radius to 0 or .001 and still not working properly, default sc2 unit speed, and lower decel.
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
September 29 2013 05:08 GMT
#4452
On September 29 2013 13:15 decemberscalm wrote:
edit: Oi, and I thought me and Lalush figured out what was causing units to dead stop. Seperation radius to 0 or .001 and still not working properly, default sc2 unit speed, and lower decel.


the issue with that was my unit spreading trigger, since it needed to find a point between the two units stacked, if they had a seperation radius of 0. it would stop that dead stop thing, but air units wouldn't spread out, they'd simply move south together, still stacked lol.

I'll try it again now since i've changed my unit spreading trigger since then to use a force effect instead of the triggered "move unit instantly" as this disjoints projectiles.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-29 05:14:44
September 29 2013 05:14 GMT
#4453
On September 29 2013 14:08 MavercK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2013 13:15 decemberscalm wrote:
edit: Oi, and I thought me and Lalush figured out what was causing units to dead stop. Seperation radius to 0 or .001 and still not working properly, default sc2 unit speed, and lower decel.


the issue with that was my unit spreading trigger, since it needed to find a point between the two units stacked, if they had a seperation radius of 0. it would stop that dead stop thing, but air units wouldn't spread out, they'd simply move south together, still stacked lol.

I'll try it again now since i've changed my unit spreading trigger since then to use a force effect instead of the triggered "move unit instantly" as this disjoints projectiles.

Oh no no. Entirely different issue. I have an automatic spread already.

Most obvious example of what I'm talking about (as discovered by lalush).
Vikings stacking and trying to micro vs colossus.
When units are overlapping each others radius, they will dead stop when attempting to do a moving shot. Deceleration is ignored.
Hardcoded apparently.

So setting separation to 0 seems required for reliable moving shots.
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
September 29 2013 05:26 GMT
#4454
On September 29 2013 14:14 decemberscalm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2013 14:08 MavercK wrote:
On September 29 2013 13:15 decemberscalm wrote:
edit: Oi, and I thought me and Lalush figured out what was causing units to dead stop. Seperation radius to 0 or .001 and still not working properly, default sc2 unit speed, and lower decel.


the issue with that was my unit spreading trigger, since it needed to find a point between the two units stacked, if they had a seperation radius of 0. it would stop that dead stop thing, but air units wouldn't spread out, they'd simply move south together, still stacked lol.

I'll try it again now since i've changed my unit spreading trigger since then to use a force effect instead of the triggered "move unit instantly" as this disjoints projectiles.

Oh no no. Entirely different issue. I have an automatic spread already.

Most obvious example of what I'm talking about (as discovered by lalush).
Vikings stacking and trying to micro vs colossus.
When units are overlapping each others radius, they will dead stop when attempting to do a moving shot. Deceleration is ignored.
Hardcoded apparently.

So setting separation to 0 seems required for reliable moving shots.


yea was referring to the same thing
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-29 05:34:35
September 29 2013 05:34 GMT
#4455
On September 29 2013 14:26 MavercK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2013 14:14 decemberscalm wrote:
On September 29 2013 14:08 MavercK wrote:
On September 29 2013 13:15 decemberscalm wrote:
edit: Oi, and I thought me and Lalush figured out what was causing units to dead stop. Seperation radius to 0 or .001 and still not working properly, default sc2 unit speed, and lower decel.


the issue with that was my unit spreading trigger, since it needed to find a point between the two units stacked, if they had a seperation radius of 0. it would stop that dead stop thing, but air units wouldn't spread out, they'd simply move south together, still stacked lol.

I'll try it again now since i've changed my unit spreading trigger since then to use a force effect instead of the triggered "move unit instantly" as this disjoints projectiles.

Oh no no. Entirely different issue. I have an automatic spread already.

Most obvious example of what I'm talking about (as discovered by lalush).
Vikings stacking and trying to micro vs colossus.
When units are overlapping each others radius, they will dead stop when attempting to do a moving shot. Deceleration is ignored.
Hardcoded apparently.

So setting separation to 0 seems required for reliable moving shots.


yea was referring to the same thing

Aahahha. Yours work fine.

I'm using the idle spread but tweaked for the mutalisk spread out, which won't "go south" due to how it works. It doesn't need to find a middle.
Quite convenient. Looks natural too and only engages when not moving and no orders are currently given.
Data based so no trigger overhead.

Mutalisk in sc2 look unnatural going BW speed x.x.
[SC]Django
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland44 Posts
September 29 2013 13:07 GMT
#4456
Please change new model's of units:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/069/e/9/zerg_compare_by_phillgonzo-d5xjxg9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/55KVYS0.jpg
SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
October 03 2013 03:03 GMT
#4457
I love everything except...

SCV WITH 60 HP
The most op unit ever made in bw :p
couponbook
Profile Joined June 2013
United States4 Posts
October 06 2013 16:52 GMT
#4458
how do i make it work? i get error "sc2bw_-_music.sc2mod". nothing works.
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
October 07 2013 03:58 GMT
#4459
On October 07 2013 01:52 couponbook wrote:
how do i make it work? i get error "sc2bw_-_music.sc2mod". nothing works.


play it on battle.net in the arcade.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
GtC
Profile Joined August 2013
United States546 Posts
October 07 2013 08:02 GMT
#4460
In BW, wasn't there a discrepancy in the mining rates between the different races. Like, didn't protoss mine the fastest and terran mine the slowest?
The Turtle Moves
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