|
On July 31 2010 06:29 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 02:02 PanzerDragoon wrote:On July 30 2010 17:39 dybydx wrote:
i have to say, when it comes to UMS, blizz really fucked this one up.
UMS is the primary reason for SC's popularity. sure we have seen the competitive scene in Korea but look at DotA, there are about 6M ppl playing DotA based on downloads from getdota.com and an additional 4M in China based on domestic estimates.
you may argue that DotA isnt SC, but there IS DotA for SC2 and DotA for War3 was based on AoS from SC. And those were far less played than the main game. DOTA is played so much because WC3 wasn't as good as SC. Defense of the Ancients is now played more than Warcraft III because Warcraft III is an unfathomably complex step up from Starcraft. Complexity is the number of game rules and depth is the amount of things you can do with those game rules. Starcraft gains its depth by taking very simple mechanics and allowing players do work all sorts of magic with them. Warcraft III takes its depth from the sheer complexity of the rule set, where you're balancing random damage, heroes, creeps, experience, gold, wood, food, items, completely unintuitive health and mana totals and then throwing them all into a blender. It is impossible to dissect Warcraft III in the way that Starcraft players know two Zealot hits down a Zergling when your weapon upgrade comes into play. It's too complicated for most gamers. So when low-level (i.e. bad) Warcraft III players found they could play the same game and they wouldn't have to manage an economy and other units, they jumped at it. And even when you strip out the core mechanics of Warcraft III ladder play, Defense of the Ancients (with its individual hero vs. hero matchups, item recipes, and items) is still a ridiculously complex game. Has nothing to do with quality. Defense of the Ancients is an easier game.
DOTA is a really awesome game, though. I gotta say that I love the DOTA-style level in the SC2 campaign.
DISCLAIMER EDIT: I've never played DOTA; I've only played Heroes of Newerth.
|
Gotta agree that the custom maps is horrible. One of the big reasons I bought SC2 was for all the upcoming custom maps, I spent so much time on WC3 just playing custom maps. However as said the new system seems so fucking stupid. Hopefully Blizzard will change it ASAP.
|
@trucane,
well either that or we use some 3rd party servers to play SC2 custom maps.
|
there must be a new system that can rank games after time of creation !!!
|
This is really depressing I hope Blizzard fixes all of this  .
|
What BN 2.0 really needs is gamepad support, the interface is made for it already.
|
While I do agree that the system is messed up right now, you need to add this as a possible way to host a custom map:
4. Know the name of the map that you want to host and use the search bar to find it.
This works even when conditions 1, 2, and 3 are all false.
|
Haven't even played a custom game because of the broken system. Every time I've checked the gamelist, there's been the same five turret defence maps and one dota-clone, the rest just random Blizzard maps (of which there are way too few imo). Didn't know it was because of ridiculous restrictions until I read this thread. 
Popularity system is a huge failure, doing it the SC/WC3 way with recent games, and throwing in a filter/search function, would be enough. Getting rid of that goddamn "show more" button would be an astonishing improvement as well, just give me a scrollbar and I'm happy.
They better fix this quickly, because I doubt many newbs will stay around on bnet getting trashed by the beta-players unless they have something in the UMS department to offer.
|
i recall the only reason why i ever played WC3 melee matches was because in order to visit the chat channel for Clan TDA, you need 25 wins. so i tower rushed my opponents for the 25.
and honestly, if it was not for the custom games, i would not have purchased WC3. in fact, i've completed the campaigns for WC3 before the game was released on shelf.
|
|
|
wow. that's madness. epic fail with custom maps in sc2..
btw, anyone make some tutorials yet on how to MAKE a custom map? i can't figure it out...
|
dcttr66,
unless u know some programming or would love to learn some, i strongly advise against it. it is extremely time consuming and given the way things are, no one will play your map anyways.
|
Yall got your collective panties in a bunch about the RealID shit and flipped out over that, but this barely gets a peep comparatively? Something that actually affects the game! Jesus people should start flipping out more over this
|
There's been some pretty bad stuff going on with sc2 but this has been always the biggest. I don't think some people realized how significant the current problem has been with ums.
|
On July 31 2010 16:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 06:29 MichaelJLowell wrote:On July 31 2010 02:02 PanzerDragoon wrote:On July 30 2010 17:39 dybydx wrote:
i have to say, when it comes to UMS, blizz really fucked this one up.
UMS is the primary reason for SC's popularity. sure we have seen the competitive scene in Korea but look at DotA, there are about 6M ppl playing DotA based on downloads from getdota.com and an additional 4M in China based on domestic estimates.
you may argue that DotA isnt SC, but there IS DotA for SC2 and DotA for War3 was based on AoS from SC. And those were far less played than the main game. DOTA is played so much because WC3 wasn't as good as SC. Defense of the Ancients is now played more than Warcraft III because Warcraft III is an unfathomably complex step up from Starcraft. Complexity is the number of game rules and depth is the amount of things you can do with those game rules. Starcraft gains its depth by taking very simple mechanics and allowing players do work all sorts of magic with them. Warcraft III takes its depth from the sheer complexity of the rule set, where you're balancing random damage, heroes, creeps, experience, gold, wood, food, items, completely unintuitive health and mana totals and then throwing them all into a blender. It is impossible to dissect Warcraft III in the way that Starcraft players know two Zealot hits down a Zergling when your weapon upgrade comes into play. It's too complicated for most gamers. So when low-level (i.e. bad) Warcraft III players found they could play the same game and they wouldn't have to manage an economy and other units, they jumped at it. And even when you strip out the core mechanics of Warcraft III ladder play, Defense of the Ancients (with its individual hero vs. hero matchups, item recipes, and items) is still a ridiculously complex game. Has nothing to do with quality. Defense of the Ancients is an easier game. DOTA is a really awesome game, though. I gotta say that I love the DOTA-style level in the SC2 campaign. DISCLAIMER EDIT: I've never played DOTA; I've only played Heroes of Newerth.
What DOTA style level? :o
|
On August 01 2010 01:27 anilusion wrote:
What DOTA style level? :o
he was prolly referring to Tosh's mission, where you only control the hero unit.
but one of the best things about DotA is that its one of the few games out there that promote teamwork. something the SC melee failed to adequately provide.
|
On August 01 2010 01:35 dybydx wrote:he was prolly referring to Tosh's mission, where you only control the hero unit. but one of the best things about DotA is that its one of the few games out there that promote teamwork. something the SC melee failed to adequately provide.
so what do you call 2v2 then
|
On August 01 2010 02:04 PanzerDragoon wrote:
so what do you call 2v2 then
look at what happened to 2v2 in SC:BW. they even had 2v2 in proleague but that died out pretty quick. lets admit it, 2v2 or nvn simply wasnt what the developers had in mind, the game wasnt balanced that way.
so ya, i m a strong believer that custom games will be a critical factor in determining the success of sc2 in term of longevity and brand value.
|
please improve the custom map selection, Blizzard
|
On July 31 2010 16:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 06:29 MichaelJLowell wrote:On July 31 2010 02:02 PanzerDragoon wrote:On July 30 2010 17:39 dybydx wrote:
i have to say, when it comes to UMS, blizz really fucked this one up.
UMS is the primary reason for SC's popularity. sure we have seen the competitive scene in Korea but look at DotA, there are about 6M ppl playing DotA based on downloads from getdota.com and an additional 4M in China based on domestic estimates.
you may argue that DotA isnt SC, but there IS DotA for SC2 and DotA for War3 was based on AoS from SC. And those were far less played than the main game. DOTA is played so much because WC3 wasn't as good as SC. Defense of the Ancients is now played more than Warcraft III because Warcraft III is an unfathomably complex step up from Starcraft. Complexity is the number of game rules and depth is the amount of things you can do with those game rules. Starcraft gains its depth by taking very simple mechanics and allowing players do work all sorts of magic with them. Warcraft III takes its depth from the sheer complexity of the rule set, where you're balancing random damage, heroes, creeps, experience, gold, wood, food, items, completely unintuitive health and mana totals and then throwing them all into a blender. It is impossible to dissect Warcraft III in the way that Starcraft players know two Zealot hits down a Zergling when your weapon upgrade comes into play. It's too complicated for most gamers. So when low-level (i.e. bad) Warcraft III players found they could play the same game and they wouldn't have to manage an economy and other units, they jumped at it. And even when you strip out the core mechanics of Warcraft III ladder play, Defense of the Ancients (with its individual hero vs. hero matchups, item recipes, and items) is still a ridiculously complex game. Has nothing to do with quality. Defense of the Ancients is an easier game. DOTA is a really awesome game, though. I gotta say that I love the DOTA-style level in the SC2 campaign. DISCLAIMER EDIT: I've never played DOTA; I've only played Heroes of Newerth.
The ironic thing is that I can't stand Defense of the Ancients, but my favorite level in The Frozen Throne was the ebb-and-flow Defense of the Ancients level.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
