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United States20665 Posts
There was actually a couple pages of discussion on Faoi IIRC; it wasn't summarily dismissed.
There was even further discussion of which new maps to include - I distinctly recall an interesting debate between sirs Plexa and Daigomi about the respective merits of Othello and Wuthering - and in the end we decided to toss Troy and include both.
That map thread was quite lengthy; we did consider a lot of things before finally choosing the map pool that we went with.
Basically, if a map shows merit, we will consider it. A map being from the foreign scene won't get any sort of 'affirmative action' bonus, nor will it receive a 'oh it's foreign, lets throw it out' penalty. Just make good maps, see if players like them, and we'll see if we can use them.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 24 2008 17:54 Last Romantic wrote:
There was actually a couple pages of discussion on Faoi IIRC; it wasn't summarily dismissed.
There was even further discussion of which new maps to include - I distinctly recall an interesting debate between sirs Daigomi and Plexa (fixed) about the respective merits of Othello and Wuthering - and in the end we decided to toss Troy and include both. Not quite true LR; based off a number of balance concerns and a number of high level players voicing the said concerns we axed Troy, replacing it with the highly played longinus (which was always going to be cut). Faoi was considered up until we got a hold of the new maps (which would allow the map pool to remain fresh without resorting to using a completely untested map). And yes, the discussion around the map brought out essentially the same views in this thread (which just goes to show that the staff are somewhat of a microcosm of the greater tl)
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United States20665 Posts
Oh, right. Gah my memory is falling to pieces 
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I have actually blocked all memories of TSL map discussion from my mind.
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I have some of the reppacks of the TSL ladder stage. It includes two Faoi replays. One is leg looking at the map with black sheep wall. And one is an actual game.
If TSL includes a foreign map it has to be popular among the mainstream. It should be a map we see in nationwars or clanwars and that is actually popular on iccup. And then probably both WCG and TSL should include that single map.
There is not much hope as long as Korean leagues don't use it. You can't compete with their maps. Just as TSL can't compete with OSL/MSL. Koreans aren't going to watch TSL. Koreans aren't going to play non Korean league maps.
Also, I don't see the problem. New Korean maps are being made often enough. And they aren't bad. Some are imba and interesting, some are, or rather become, boring and balanced.
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On June 25 2008 22:57 BlackStar wrote:
I have some of the reppacks of the TSL ladder stage. It includes two Faoi replays. One is leg looking at the map with black sheep wall. And one is an actual game.
If TSL includes a foreign map it has to be popular among the mainstream. It should be a map we see in nationwars or clanwars and that is actually popular on iccup. And then probably both WCG and TSL should include that single map.
that makes no sense. are the korean progaming maps popular before they're put into use? NO. they pull new ones out of their asses every few months and those are used in the leagues after the players practice on them for a bit. if they completely suck, they're pulled out. do you really want to see more games on Lost Temple???? half the fun of a new league or a new season is new maps.
There is not much hope as long as Korean leagues don't use it. You can't compete with their maps. Just as TSL can't compete with OSL/MSL. Koreans aren't going to watch TSL. Koreans aren't going to play non Korean league maps.
not much hope for what? we just want good games. are we trying to turn the TSL into a progamer factory or something? and if you've ever seen broodwarmaps.net, you know that there is a large number of very good maps made by non-Koreans. plus, who cares if Koreans don't play our maps? we don't have to be a parasite on the Korean scene. their leagues are by Koreans and for Koreans, so why can't we at least partially do the equivalent?
Also, I don't see the problem. New Korean maps are being made often enough. And they aren't bad. Some are imba and interesting, some are, or rather become, boring and balanced.
ok, there really isn't a problem with the frequency of their updating (although I'd say their last batch of new maps took a little long). but is that a reason for us not to throw in one or two of our own maps? it's our freakin' league, after all.
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I don't understand your arguments.
What does it matter if a map is foreign made or Korean made?
Why split up the Korean and foreign community even more? They should play the same maps. And for a foreign map to be in the TSL it should be in the current map repertoire
Don't force people to play a map they would never play otherwise. Almost no one played Faoi in the ladder phase. Why force them to play that map later on?
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Let's just have all games on Hunters.
I'm up for that.
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the new map that was just posted... the spinel valley, took a look at it, actually played one game on it. boy does that map love terran and hates the other races... its fucking impossible to snag the third gas -.- and siege tanks really fuck me up on it. but that isnt the biggest problem, it is those goddamn tiny ramps that you must get through for every single goddamn part of the map. and you expect this map to be in tsl? lol
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who said anything about spinel valley?
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On June 26 2008 17:15 kyjori wrote:
the new map that was just posted... the spinel valley, took a look at it, actually played one game on it. boy does that map love terran and hates the other races... its fucking impossible to snag the third gas -.- and siege tanks really fuck me up on it. but that isnt the biggest problem, it is those goddamn tiny ramps that you must get through for every single goddamn part of the map. and you expect this map to be in tsl? lol
hey let's take 1 map by 1 mapmaker, that's only been out for barely 19 days, is still being tested... and let's judge the entire foreigner mapmaking community based on that one map.
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So does anyone like the maps shown in the thread in the Brood War forum?
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=74122
This is what Nasty's talking about. There's two lists of maps with their pictures, just a small random assortment of bwmn maps. Some are just plain excellent, others are decent, and some are either just interesting or just really basic but still solid. We're not necessarily pushing any of these maps for TSL2, just showcasing some of our gems along with some other recent maps.
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i think you guys should get those testing tourneys out there before pushing your maps. also, some of the shitty maps like rise of teotahikgafdgkadlfkladflkadsflklsflks should be cut and not even shown to us, makes other maps look bad
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 28 2008 16:38 anotak wrote:i think you guys should get those testing tourneys out there before pushing your maps. also, some of the shitty maps like rise of teotahikgafdgkadlfkladflkadsflklsflks should be cut and not even shown to us, makes other maps look bad O rly?
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Well the weekly tournament idea I made in the broodwar forum is still go, but we're still editing and testing a couple of the maps, so the whole thing is on pause for that.
Plexa those two maps are some of my favourite maps! I just really liked Mercury when I played on it like forever ago (when I was so noob racial imbalances wouldn't matter), and DMZ is just amazing conceptually, even if it plays horribly 
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On June 29 2008 00:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2008 16:38 anotak wrote:i think you guys should get those testing tourneys out there before pushing your maps. also, some of the shitty maps like rise of teotahikgafdgkadlfkladflkadsflklsflks should be cut and not even shown to us, makes other maps look bad O rly?
I think rise of teosomething is worse than geometry tbh
but otherwise yeah, just i think that they should be showcasing their GOOD maps not the bad ones.
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On June 29 2008 00:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2008 16:38 anotak wrote:i think you guys should get those testing tourneys out there before pushing your maps. also, some of the shitty maps like rise of teotahikgafdgkadlfkladflkadsflklsflks should be cut and not even shown to us, makes other maps look bad O rly?
Mercury looks amazing, tyvm and I played an FFA on DMZ, it was AMAZING getting SCV rushed in 30 seconds. lol. Alchemist looks like a crack trip. Geometry looks like my kind of map with those TvZ numbers, and Peaks, well no comment. It doesn't favor T enough lol.
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I highly doubt any map that is accepted from the foreign community is going to be a weird ass experimental map that is hard to learn. It will probably be fairly simple and give the possibility for interesting play.
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United States20665 Posts
On June 29 2008 12:20 WorldCommunist8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2008 00:57 Plexa wrote:On June 28 2008 16:38 anotak wrote:i think you guys should get those testing tourneys out there before pushing your maps. also, some of the shitty maps like rise of teotahikgafdgkadlfkladflkadsflklsflks should be cut and not even shown to us, makes other maps look bad O rly? Mercury looks amazing, tyvm and I played an FFA on DMZ, it was AMAZING getting SCV rushed in 30 seconds. lol. Alchemist looks like a crack trip. Geometry looks like my kind of map with those TvZ numbers, and Peaks, well no comment. It doesn't favor T enough lol.
those 80% zvps seem real amazing eh
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EPT
