lol wtf? Listen dude, if you think I was trying to come at you with that post (or admins in general) your totally wrong. but so be it.

and to clear things up - I have never expected anything from the community as far as maps go and I speak for myself not for other mappers trying to get their maps into the community

kyjori

371 Posts

June 19 2008 02:33 GMT

#184

waiting to panic~~

anotak

United States1537 Posts

June 19 2008 04:11 GMT

#185

didn't mean to stir up this animosity that's starting to take over the thread
*sigh*

VIB

Brazil3567 Posts

June 19 2008 23:40 GMT

#186

On June 19 2008 07:15 Chill wrote:
Do you really think there's an answer to "What kind of map do the players want?" I'll answer - there isn't.

But you do can answer "What kind of map is acceptable"... can't you?

Or at least answer this. Suppose we do get to do all the work of getting a team together, developing balance theories, drawing maps, testing them and assuring a level of quality that we find acceptable for TSL. Would those maps have a chance of ever being considered to be put in the TSL. Or shouldn't we even bother with it all because regardless of good our maps are they're gonna be shot down because they're foreigner?

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

June 20 2008 01:43 GMT

#187

Thing is, they can't really answer that =/ If they say no, then people who even don't care about mapping or the foreign mapping scene at all get mad because then it's clear TSL is just a foreign gimick to get TL more active. If they say yes, the many players who wouldn't want it, and the spectators who could be disapointed would be upset, and they'd have to say no to any map anyway to keep them happy. If they say yes, and put a map in, then possibly players would boycott it, or the games on the map could end up all cheese/rush games, which would make the spectators unhappy, and reduce TL/TSL credibility and hurt the site. They don't really lose anything by not letting a foreign map in, but they do stand to be hurt by one, but at the same time can't show how little people care about the foreign mapping scene.

However, we're still going to try and make some maps, because TL can't say say yes or no until we actually get a fucking good map made.

alffla

Hong Kong20321 Posts

June 20 2008 02:18 GMT

#188

On June 19 2008 13:11 anotak wrote:
didn't mean to stir up this animosity that's starting to take over the thread
*sigh*

yeah what happened there

anyway i fully support you nastymarine and nightmarjoo gogo make some sick maps and lets hope it gets into one of the next TSLs!

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

June 20 2008 03:55 GMT

#189

My advice for getting your map into the TSL, is aim to have something ready to show after WCG. If there is a TSL before that then there is no way a foreign map will be included, purely because of the number of maps currently in circulation and the proximity of WCG. However, a TSL after WCG does have the possibility of having a foreign map used. TSL will never rule out the possibility of a foreign map and im sure every season it will come up for discussion. Just remember, that if a map did make it - it would be the flagship for the entire foreign scene. If it were a disaster then the chances of another foreign map are severely diminished. People would constantly bring that map up as an example of why foreigners can't make maps. However, should it be a success and there is an increase chance of successive use.

Chill

Calgary26003 Posts

June 20 2008 04:32 GMT

#190

Sure we'd accept a foreign map. I thought that was clear already when WE SAID WE WOULD and when WE SAID WE CONSIDERED FAOI.

thedeadhaji

39489 Posts

June 20 2008 15:52 GMT

#191

I can attest to faoi being under serious consideration for being included btw.

OakHill

United States168 Posts

June 20 2008 17:18 GMT

#192

Just convert turtle rock to starcraft and it will balance itself:

http://www.battle.net/war3/images/ladder/maps/TurtleRock.jpg

Best map EVER.

-OakHill

thunk

United States6233 Posts

June 20 2008 22:07 GMT

#193

On June 20 2008 12:55 Plexa wrote:
My advice for getting your map into the TSL, is aim to have something ready to show after WCG. If there is a TSL before that then there is no way a foreign map will be included, purely because of the number of maps currently in circulation and the proximity of WCG. However, a TSL after WCG does have the possibility of having a foreign map used. TSL will never rule out the possibility of a foreign map and im sure every season it will come up for discussion. Just remember, that if a map did make it - it would be the flagship for the entire foreign scene. If it were a disaster then the chances of another foreign map are severely diminished. People would constantly bring that map up as an example of why foreigners can't make maps. However, should it be a success and there is an increase chance of successive use.

This post definitely has a foreshadowing tone to it, but I don't know why.

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

June 20 2008 22:28 GMT

#194

On June 21 2008 02:18 OakHill wrote:
Just convert turtle rock to starcraft and it will balance itself:

http://www.battle.net/war3/images/ladder/maps/TurtleRock.jpg

Best map EVER.

-OakHill

Um I think I could make it into a starcraft map no problem, but it'd play horribly lol.

alphafuzard

United States1610 Posts

June 21 2008 04:07 GMT

#195

why dont you map makers make/gather a few sexy maps and put them forward for consideration?
if there is a great map, yay!
if the admins smite your maps, try again next season

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

June 21 2008 19:45 GMT

#196

That's the plan

knf

Sweden282 Posts

June 22 2008 15:10 GMT

#197

I fully concur with anotak, the TSL is the most exciting and indeed professional non-Korean event that the foreign community has, and so "we" (not that I personally have an active role, but never the less) should put it upon ourselves to walk that extra mile and not just replicate the "real" proscene. This should very much include creating own material, such as maps, according to the mentioned rituals of testing and balancing. It what the next edition of TSL needs, and it is achievable.

wswordsmen

United States987 Posts

June 23 2008 04:33 GMT

#198

Question about concidering Faio. Did you get top players to play extra games on it before you made your decision or was the evidence clear already by how many games top players had played already, or what?

And I didn't misinturpert that you got top player imput on Faio before making the final decision? (And forgive me for the stupid question either way)

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

June 23 2008 11:32 GMT

#199

I don't know about their end of the ordeal, but me and Plexa sat down and looked at the map's old version hard for a little while, considered the general complaints of the map and how we could fix them. Then I had to remake the map from scratch because I had lost an unprotected copy, and if you unprotect a map the isometric brush (normal one) doesn't work right anymore. It was easy to fix the problems though by remaking the map altogether, even if it was tedious. We looked at the map until we fixed as many of the positional or racial "imbalances" we could think of until we came up with the final version.
After that, there wasn't anything I could do because they didn't involve me in any testing or discussion, so I just kinda had to pray or so

I was miffed at the time, but I really think not including Faoi was the best decision, and especially didn't mind when they threw Troy out. I was kind of put off though when they threw Othello and Wuthering Heights in though, up until putting those two in everything was being done to ensure if not a balanced mappool, a safe one. I kind of feel that at the time there couldn't outside of theory been any proof one way or another that either of those two maps would come out better than Faoi, or perhaps atleast not as bad as Faoi. In hindsite though the two maps played pretty nicely all things considered, but who knows if Faoi would have, just hard to tell really.

As far as I know though, the decision on Faoi was just made through administrative discussion: presumably they'd have given me some kind of feedback or replays otherwise.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

June 23 2008 16:08 GMT

#200

Essentially the Faoi debate ran until we got the new promaps and we unanimously agreed upon using the "fresh" maps from korea rather than the fresh map from outside