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Which race is the strongest right now? - Page 12

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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erazerr
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia86 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 09:46:27
March 15 2012 09:28 GMT
#221
i think when zerg really utilize their micro abilities to their max potential(DRGx2) then there armies will be way better..

still.. funny this poll just came up after months of protoss being absolutely turd - 2 months of p as the strongest and EVERYONE no matter how RETARDED the matchups were just say that protoss is easiest blah blah etc.
EmperorKira
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom107 Posts
March 15 2012 09:30 GMT
#222
I think its fairly balanced. I think problem with protoss is that they're weak early/mid game but super strong late game so its kinda hard to say
FATJESUSONABIKE
Profile Joined November 2011
184 Posts
March 15 2012 09:33 GMT
#223
not only P is the most broken race but it's also the most boring to watch.
it's ridiculously easy to play P at mid-high level and the imbalance is clear and confirmed at pro level (especially in PvZ, mostly unwinable for Z)

and the poll will pick P.
roym899
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany426 Posts
March 15 2012 09:42 GMT
#224
Hm ZvP is my best matchup. (Plat-Dia Level) That's why I voted Terran as it seems to me like you can only win against T when they are doing MAJOR mistakes. It's also the most forgiving race, as they can comeback from so many bad spots with turteling with SiegeTanks and Mules.
So it's maybe:
T>Z>P>T (atleast for me)
NL.Anonymous
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Netherlands50 Posts
March 15 2012 10:21 GMT
#225
Definately like to say that Protoss is "the most strongest". The 2 base plays that they can pull of are incredibly strong (pointing to the PvZ MU) and especially in the lower brackets there aren't many people that can't handle the 2base play. Also MC proved that a 2base protoss can be pure cruel on "Top notch" lvl, so my vote goes to Protoss.

Then on the other hand I like to say that I think the game is kinda balanced at this point and I don't think there isn't a way to balance it more without adjusting the game big time. :-)
Follow me on twitch.tv/gfwarbringer! Offering free Zerg Coaching, check my Coach Thread! :)
Kabras
Profile Joined June 2011
Romania3508 Posts
March 15 2012 10:49 GMT
#226
To quote Trump, "Proootoossssss Y U SO GOOD?"
"So playing SF in pubs, everyone remember that a very important point is that when using a carry hero like this you must be very selfish. Because working with team mates is a very dangerous thing" - 2009
GoingGoingGone
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Slovakia529 Posts
March 15 2012 10:53 GMT
#227
I play protoss and think protoss is currently the strongest race. But really not by much.
Busy night, but there's always room for another... unless the servers are down.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
March 15 2012 12:33 GMT
#228
I think Zerg ultimately has the highest potential, but at the moment Protoss is on top. Mostly it's due to more Protoss players developing stronger early timings or learning how to turtle into lategame super armies that take significantly less skill to get the most out of compared to their Terran and Zerg counterparts. Coming into SC2 as a Protoss player from BW, I've always been super disappointed at how badly designed the race is. I still remember how dumbfounded I was when I first got the game and made some colossi. I can't believe it's still in the game.
Khalimaroth
Profile Joined September 2010
France71 Posts
March 15 2012 12:43 GMT
#229
I would like to vote "none".
Trop'inzust
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
March 15 2012 13:26 GMT
#230
I had to actually think about this for more than a second. That makes me pretty happy.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
March 15 2012 13:27 GMT
#231
On March 15 2012 18:33 FATJESUSONABIKE wrote:
not only P is the most broken race but it's also the most boring to watch.
it's ridiculously easy to play P at mid-high level and the imbalance is clear and confirmed at pro level (especially in PvZ, mostly unwinable for Z)

and the poll will pick P.


ROFL
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
LunaSea
Profile Joined October 2011
Luxembourg369 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 13:37:19
March 15 2012 13:33 GMT
#232
On March 15 2012 05:27 Njbrownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 22:23 LunaSea wrote:
I voted for Protoss because from the many tournaments and streams I watched recently, I think that they're a the race with the most unit abilities which can't be avoided with skill (what I mean is that if your in a donut forcefield you can be MMA or mister #100 Bronze player it doesn't change much) :

- Forcefields (Sentry)
- Vortex (Mothership)
- Auto-attack (Phoenix)

And I'm not even talking of combinations of abilities that are very powerfull for Protoss :

- Archon toilet (most of the time a game changer)
- Forcfield behind your units + Storms (High Templar)
- (Push with Sentrys forcefielding the ramp to your main base)

Other races have some good abilities too, but generally I feel that they are easier to "dodge" or mitigate (besides juking a bit to make the Protoss fail his first forcefields, which really doesn't matter in late game).
For example : "Fungal Growth is awesome for Zergs but in big battles you nearly have to sacrifice your Infestor everytime you want to get in range (Colossi, Storm, Siege Tanks ...etc.)".

In my opinion spells like Fungal, Vortex, Phoenix auto-attack and Forcefields should be redesigned to make them reflect the two players's skill more.

Just my two cents here.


I'll be happy to rebuttle:

-FF's : Force sentry energy to be spent early and often = rendered useless no matter what race and too gas heavy to be rebuilt
-Vortex: Mothership is SLOWW fall back and reposition many smaller groups of units in order to minimize toilet losses
-Pheonix: c'mon really??? They are so freaking fragile that a slight micro misstep and their dead... you try doing that without auto-attack
-High Templar: again splitting is key and hitting snipes as terran or a couple unit hit squads for templar outta place as zerg are both effective counters

The only unit I could truly say is difficult to deal with is colossus and it kinda surprises me you didn't really mention them seeing as every race has to go out of their way tech wise to really counter them and the toss player can tech switch fairly easily while your left with useless supply (vikings expecially, corruptors not so much). I think a lot of players find the things you mentioned difficult because army splitting is not the metagame for toss although it SHOULD be. IF you attack head on into a maxed protoss, which you should be trading effectively in order to avoid maxed encounters, but say you let them get maxed and a-move into them with your less expensive maxed army... You should lose. The units are obviously stronger due to capital spent on them. Protoss is also a very ability-centric race and if you let them utilize abilities on a big ball of units you will undoubtedly get crushed, A protoss rarely ever splits his "deathball" so if you can attack from 5+ directions on favorable terrain and micro your groups of units out of AoE threats; with a good composition you should win.

To sum it up, engagements from every side with smaller groups of units would be better against a protoss because your limiting the AoE threat of the race in general. Storms even if landed perfectly only have a damage potential of x amount of units instead of a moneystorm on a larger majority of your units leaving them severly weakened / dead. Same with vortex, if a toss is resorting to this he is thinking he probably cannot engage you straight up without both you and him trading armies, or worse just outright losing horribly. Split units to minimize damage potential of vortexs and you stand a better chance of winning an engagement and possibly the game. FF's you force them to spend on a "fake engagement" losing a few zerglings to do so is more than worth it.


- For the Force Fields look at this :

Look at how many FF's MC placed down and this isn't even late game (they have roughly 130 supply so probably around 10-15 minutes). It's arguable that morrow should've forced MC to waste some Force Fields but never that many.
The Tyler clip is like this too : http://youtu.be/i0B_oiJTcDI?hd=1&t=3m20s

- Even if the Mothership is slow (not as slow as before but still) Broodlords are also very slow and since they are the core of the Zerg army in ZvP lategame you can't do much about it. --> http://youtu.be/i0B_oiJTcDI?hd=1&t=3m55s

- The best example of Phoenix auto-attack would be the first game (not sure about this) of White'Ra vs Stephano 5K $ showmatch in IPL.

- I didn't complain about Archons just saying that the combination of Archons and Vortex (Archon Toilet) is too powerfull. Same for Force Fields + Storms ...etc.

- Another example of Vortex would be the first game of Grubby vs. White'Ra (PvP) at IEM WC. Like the commentators said Grubby was 3 steps ahead but in the late game Grubby had no Mothership = instantloss because his collossi got vortexed.

- Collossi are less of a problem if you don't have that many "traps" like FF's. You can deal effectively with a correct amount of collossi with corruptors and vikings.
"Your f*cking wrong, but I respect your opinion" --Day[9]
Penke
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden346 Posts
March 15 2012 13:36 GMT
#233
I think the game is pretty balanced race-wise. No matter the race you lose to it probably has more to do with who played better than which is the more powerful race.
ZeroSix
Profile Joined March 2011
England54 Posts
March 15 2012 14:05 GMT
#234
protoss is easily the strongest race. only reason they dont win as much tournaments in korea is because the vast majority of the top players use terran and zerg.
GodOfWar
Profile Joined December 2011
870 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 14:34:07
March 15 2012 14:28 GMT
#235
Game is pretty balanced now actually, Zerg just lacks another top player besides DRG.

Protoss used to be weaker but are now up there with the Terrans, and MC shows perfectly how to use the race to its limits.

Terrans pretty much are still very strong, but MVP is injured and MMA not consistent enough these days.

Polt and MKP make up for those two though.

1) Protoss & Terrans (its a draw really)
3) Zerg (only very slightly behind in terms of success - maybe the Addon will make them the overpowered race, but hey right now Korea at least got current GSL champ DRG and Europe got Stephano, two very successful players for sure)

No need to cry about imba here, its all good. If you cant beat a certain matchup, you are not good enough and need to practice more.
Mvp Moon Squirtle
Sigmur
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland497 Posts
March 15 2012 15:14 GMT
#236
I could say zerg imba! because i lose most amount games in that matchup. But it's not the case. I could have played better. More than 99% voting in that poll are way below level where they couldn't play any better. Bah I think even pros are.

So for me the poll is totally pointless, due to the fact people voting have no competence in judging the topic. Let the statistics say, especially among the pro games.

tokinho
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States792 Posts
March 15 2012 15:31 GMT
#237
in GSL, top 8 were 1 zerg, 3 toss, 4 terran. And a zerg won the whole thing. So I say game is really close to balanced. Blizzard doing good work.
Smile
SadMachine
Profile Joined October 2010
United States98 Posts
March 15 2012 15:37 GMT
#238
Even though it's been stated many times already, I think it's quite comical that Protoss has ONE good season in GSL after being an utter joke for about 8 months, and the vast majority of the community cries "IMBA, IMBA, IMBAAAAAAA!!!!!" Get a grip people. There's this thing called the meta-game. It is not a constant. It changes, and as it changes different races do better. How could Protoss suddenly be IMBA when no major balance changes occured (remember they started doing well BEFORE the new patch)? What caused the Protoss come-back was a combination of new understandings of the game, meta-game changes, and an emergence of new incredibly talented players (such as Parting) breaking into the scene that just happened to be Protoss users. While it may look like Zerg is underrepresented in Code S, just look at the skill of the Zerg users there. The ones that are in Code S are the only ones truly deserving of being there. It's just a fact that there aren't as many highly-talented Zerg players out there right now. Please take a step back and look at what actually is happening rather than just giving knee-jerk reactions to a race having a good season.
rinzz
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria26 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 15:52:31
March 15 2012 15:42 GMT
#239
Terran is just imba..........i need a gas to counter tier1 50 mineral unit....ouu pls
MillaKilla
Profile Joined January 2012
1 Post
March 15 2012 16:19 GMT
#240
Take the Violet vs MC game at IEM on Dual Sight. Violet did everything you could against it but it wasnt good enough because MC has forcefields, and when you have force fields you can dictate how much of the army you go up against and in that case Violet had nothing else to do but to sacrifice his 3rd because he wasnt able to engage MC army. Forcefields at least in ZvP are the most evident form of imba. When zerg's only long ranged unit is a hydralysk, which we could all admit are pretty useless unless your hitting a protoss before they have colossus, When most of Zergs ground units are between the range of 1 - 4 and most of protoss units have at least a range of 5-6 minus zealots of course, it makes it even harder on Zerg players to engage a protoss with forcefields.
In TvP I believe it is balanced up until the Protoss has Storm, but when Storm hits and you are not the greatest micro player, you are pretty much screwed over because generally when a Terran goes up against Protoss they play bio, but when Terran units used when they play bio only have between 55 and a 125 HP and a storm hits which deals 80 damage over 4 game seconds which is like 3 and a half seconds or so, there goes most of your Bio force while Protoss still has all of their ground units basically untouched.

Colossus could also be brought up but since they can not attack air I feel like thats an argument that I'm not going to have a good response too if someone questions it. But imo I feel like those are the only balancing issues with the game. You could either reduce the damage done by Storm, which in my opinon should be the same as every other casting unit that the other races have to offer, ex. infestor or ghost, or you could increase the amount of energy forcefields take up to like 50. Those would be the only changes I feel that would make the game truly balanced.

Btw, infestors fungal growth deals 30 damage(40 to armored) and Ghost emp deals 100 damage to shielded units or energy units. Following the same logic though you would say that Ghost's emp should be nerfed but when Protoss have shields that can regenerate at an alarming rate and actually dont deal any physical damage to the unit so it is basically a nonkilling cast, which is unique to the other casting attacks. That why I believe they have it deal as much damage as it does.

Just putting my 2 cents in. I feel like this is a fairly accurate description of the imba in the game today
MillaKilla (SC2) player... Random player :)
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