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Power Rank 05/03/2010 - Page 36

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-26 04:30:19
May 26 2010 04:25 GMT
#701
EffOrt on the PR is a must. No excuses guys! I agree with everyone who says "winner of MSL gets #1 because Flash has lost alot more matches than expected this month. Effort deserves high this month because of his spectacular play that everyone doubted. 9-2 is unbelievably convincing with 2 loses coming from the most dominant player atm. BaBy didnt play much this month but was reaaaaally consistent but his teammate Midas wasnt doing as well. Course, if you exclude his loses from JD, you get a 2-1 score but, where was he all this time? why didnt Fox play him? he would be lowered imo. Im also wondering, where the fuck was Sea? his only win was vs Mantoss in a hard fought game. MBC is dead in R4. Free ate HiyA and got stomped and destroyed by Flash. after the Ro8 victory over hiya, he has yet to win a game. Yea he lost to Leta and TigerToss but rethink about it. Leta has terribad TvP... His PvT confidence was probably crushed after losing to Flash in humiliation. So about HiyA, what happened to him also? he seemed to have rolled over vs everyone he played except for HyuN. Also, MVP has had a disappointing month so hes out. This month wasnt that great for most on the PR. Even Great failed to show good results.
So who did do well this month?
+ Show Spoiler +
(T)Flash
(Z)Jaedong (Holy fuck best record of the month. World is back to normal? no (P)Bisu still sucks)
(Z)EffOrt
(P)Snow
(P)Stats
(T)BaBy
(P)JangBi
(P)Kal (Minus his loses to (Z)EffOrt)
(T)Leta
(Z)s2 (LOL)
(Z)Hyuk
(T)fantasy(?)
(P)BeSt
(T)fOrGG
(Z)Action
(Z)RorO
(T)Classic
(Z)Hydra
and (P)Horang2.

People who normally suck are here since many people either lost alot of games, had a close losing record or played a few games and won
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
May 26 2010 05:26 GMT
#702
Actually I think Baby might have a legitimate argument for #4. He didn't make a semifinals and people haven't been paying much attention to him after he beat Jaedong, but look how GOOD he is:

+ Show Spoiler +
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
May 26 2010 06:09 GMT
#703
plexa's PRs have been very problematic and this month was no exception
no effort not even on CNBC is very strange indeed.. effort has been 4th for two months when riptide was doing the PR. When plexa took over (last 4-5 months), effort is not mentioned once.
Midas, although I love him, is also ranked way too high etc etc
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
ndralcasid
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States524 Posts
May 26 2010 06:41 GMT
#704
Why are people still complaining about Effort's lack of placement LAST month? As good as he's playing this month, OSL champ and all (and he does deserve top 3 at least), he really did play like absolute ass in April.
I aint crying over some daggone danishes
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 26 2010 07:11 GMT
#705
On May 26 2010 15:09 phosphorylation wrote:
plexa's PRs have been very problematic and this month was no exception
no effort not even on CNBC is very strange indeed.. effort has been 4th for two months when riptide was doing the PR. When plexa took over (last 4-5 months), effort is not mentioned once.
Midas, although I love him, is also ranked way too high etc etc

Effort suddenly, out of nowhere, started winning games after his re-re-re-re-re match vs Go.Go and Shine.
Before that he absolutely sucked.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 26 2010 12:20 GMT
#706
On May 26 2010 06:00 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 04:56 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On May 26 2010 03:18 tree.hugger wrote:

But game two of the OSL, it's easy to admit; EffOrt did get out multi-tasked badly in that game. It can happen, just as how Calm out-micro'd Jaedong in the third game of their MSL semi-finals series, even though Jaedong's micro is on the whole better than what he displayed that game.


I like how Effort is Jaedong while Flash is Calm in this analogy. It's so utterly wrong that I actually giggled.

It's true except that was the best that I could do. No one else has out-multitasked (Z)EffOrt in a late-game especially recently.

Look, (NDJ) I think what it really comes down to is that I'm looking at his play and thinking; "EffOrt is completely out of his slump" where as if you're not as convinced that EffOrt is back in his summer form, then I can completely see why you'd be skeptical of his abilities. I admit that in general, my argument is that he has recovered his insane multi-task and management of last year (and I think he may have acquired the flexibility to end ZvT's early, and ZvP's with hydras).

Which means that we'll just have to see. Give me, however that EffOrt in form has the management that I say he has, even if you dispute whether or not he's in form.

EDIT:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 06:07 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm not skeptical of Effort, I'm skeptical of your analogy of game management where Effort is > Flash.

I know I'm a raging Flash fanboy, but that's just wrooooonnnnnnggg.

As I said, there really isn't a perfect analogy for it, EffOrt hasn't been beaten in a late game recently except by Flash. His real problem was actually that he wasn't getting to the late game at all.

But I addressed the second part of that to n.DieJokes, I knew what you were arguing, T3.


Effort, in form, doesn't have better anything than Flash. Same goes for Jaedong, honestly. Effort was absolutely astonishing at one point in his career, but he's never shown anything resembling proof that he's better at any particular skill than Flash or Jaedong. Not in making builds, not in managing small and big army confrontations, not in macro, not in micro. He is an astounding player but there's no reason to say he, at his best, is better than the two best players to ever play the game.
Remember Violet.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
May 26 2010 13:01 GMT
#707
On May 26 2010 15 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 15      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:41 ndralcasid wrote:
Why are people still complaining about Effort's lack of placement LAST month? As good as he's playing this month, OSL champ and all (and he does deserve top 3 at least), he really did play like absolute ass in April.

6-game winning streak at the end of the month, when you have has-beens like Midas in PR, and just awful players like Hiya, MVP, Great?

No, the PR just was bad.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-26 13:06:41
May 26 2010 13:04 GMT
#708
On May 26 2010 22 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 22      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 22      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:01 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 15 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 15      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:41 ndralcasid wrote:
Why are people still complaining about Effort's lack of placement LAST month? As good as he's playing this month, OSL champ and all (and he does deserve top 3 at least), he really did play like absolute ass in April.

6-game winning streak at the end of the month, when you have has-beens like Midas in PR, and just awful players like Hiya, MVP, Great?

No, the PR just was bad.


On May 26 2010 21 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 26 2010 21 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 06:00 tree.hugger wrote:
On May 26 2010 04:56 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On May 26 2010 03:18 tree.hugger wrote:

But game two of the OSL, it's easy to admit; EffOrt did get out multi-tasked badly in that game. It can happen, just as how Calm out-micro'd Jaedong in the third game of their MSL semi-finals series, even though Jaedong's micro is on the whole better than what he displayed that game.


I like how Effort is Jaedong while Flash is Calm in this analogy. It's so utterly wrong that I actually giggled.

It's true except that was the best that I could do. No one else has out-multitasked (Z)EffOrt in a late-game especially recently.

Look, (NDJ) I think what it really comes down to is that I'm looking at his play and thinking; "EffOrt is completely out of his slump" where as if you're not as convinced that EffOrt is back in his summer form, then I can completely see why you'd be skeptical of his abilities. I admit that in general, my argument is that he has recovered his insane multi-task and management of last year (and I think he may have acquired the flexibility to end ZvT's early, and ZvP's with hydras).

Which means that we'll just have to see. Give me, however that EffOrt in form has the management that I say he has, even if you dispute whether or not he's in form.

EDIT:
On May 26 2010 06:07 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm not skeptical of Effort, I'm skeptical of your analogy of game management where Effort is > Flash.

I know I'm a raging Flash fanboy, but that's just wrooooonnnnnnggg.

As I said, there really isn't a perfect analogy for it, EffOrt hasn't been beaten in a late game recently except by Flash. His real problem was actually that he wasn't getting to the late game at all.

But I addressed the second part of that to n.DieJokes, I knew what you were arguing, T3.


Effort, in form, doesn't have better anything than Flash. Same goes for Jaedong, honestly. Effort was absolutely astonishing at one point in his career, but he's never shown anything resembling proof that he's better at any particular skill than Flash or Jaedong. Not in making builds, not in managing small and big army confrontations, not in macro, not in micro. He is an astounding player but there's no reason to say he, at his best, is better than the two best players to ever play the game.


Effort has more APM than either of those... and I'd say he's better than Flash in the early stages of the game although T and Z are difficult to compare. I think JD > Effort though, although Effort still has higher APM and I guess his lategame management/macro might be slightly better.

JD's the best player ever though, so it's kind of difficult to compare.


EDIT: well crap it posted it in a seperate post, I'm sorry.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 26 2010 14:55 GMT
#709
On May 25 2010 18:32 StylishVODs wrote:
Management
[image loading]
Apm

Grrrr
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
May 26 2010 15:09 GMT
#710
On May 26 2010 22:04 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 22 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 22      end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 22      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:01 Shikyo wrote:
On May 26 2010 15 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              26 2010 15      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:41 ndralcasid wrote:
Why are people still complaining about Effort's lack of placement LAST month? As good as he's playing this month, OSL champ and all (and he does deserve top 3 at least), he really did play like absolute ass in April.

6-game winning streak at the end of the month, when you have has-beens like Midas in PR, and just awful players like Hiya, MVP, Great?

No, the PR just was bad.


Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 21 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 26 2010 21 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On May 26 2010 06:00 tree.hugger wrote:
On May 26 2010 04:56 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On May 26 2010 03:18 tree.hugger wrote:

But game two of the OSL, it's easy to admit; EffOrt did get out multi-tasked badly in that game. It can happen, just as how Calm out-micro'd Jaedong in the third game of their MSL semi-finals series, even though Jaedong's micro is on the whole better than what he displayed that game.


I like how Effort is Jaedong while Flash is Calm in this analogy. It's so utterly wrong that I actually giggled.

It's true except that was the best that I could do. No one else has out-multitasked (Z)EffOrt in a late-game especially recently.

Look, (NDJ) I think what it really comes down to is that I'm looking at his play and thinking; "EffOrt is completely out of his slump" where as if you're not as convinced that EffOrt is back in his summer form, then I can completely see why you'd be skeptical of his abilities. I admit that in general, my argument is that he has recovered his insane multi-task and management of last year (and I think he may have acquired the flexibility to end ZvT's early, and ZvP's with hydras).

Which means that we'll just have to see. Give me, however that EffOrt in form has the management that I say he has, even if you dispute whether or not he's in form.

EDIT:
On May 26 2010 06:07 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I'm not skeptical of Effort, I'm skeptical of your analogy of game management where Effort is > Flash.

I know I'm a raging Flash fanboy, but that's just wrooooonnnnnnggg.

As I said, there really isn't a perfect analogy for it, EffOrt hasn't been beaten in a late game recently except by Flash. His real problem was actually that he wasn't getting to the late game at all.

But I addressed the second part of that to n.DieJokes, I knew what you were arguing, T3.


Effort, in form, doesn't have better anything than Flash. Same goes for Jaedong, honestly. Effort was absolutely astonishing at one point in his career, but he's never shown anything resembling proof that he's better at any particular skill than Flash or Jaedong. Not in making builds, not in managing small and big army confrontations, not in macro, not in micro. He is an astounding player but there's no reason to say he, at his best, is better than the two best players to ever play the game.


Effort has more APM than either of those... and I'd say he's better than Flash in the early stages of the game although T and Z are difficult to compare. I think JD > Effort though, although Effort still has higher APM and I guess his lategame management/macro might be slightly better.

JD's the best player ever though, so it's kind of difficult to compare.


EDIT: well crap it posted it in a seperate post, I'm sorry.

APM doesn't mean that much, although it's certainly a difference between EffOrt and Movie.

Again, I'm not arguing for EffOrt being better than either Flash or Jaedong. I'm simply saying that I think his multi-task (jn form) is on-par or better than Jaedong's. I think Flash's multi-task is the best in the world right now.

And you can disagree of course, and I'm not sure we can technically prove it either way. It's a subjective observation, after all.

Though someone earlier pointed out a stylistic difference which might explain my point better; EffOrt's late game consists of a huge series of smaller attacks all over the map, while Flash and Jaedong are more interested in setting up a huge battle that they will win.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5779 Posts
May 26 2010 15:19 GMT
#711
I'm not that familiar with Effort's style and qualities, but what I remember from his period of domination a couple of months back is that he was insanely good at sending small groups zerglings all over the map and somehow making every one of them effective.
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
WWJDD
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
India342 Posts
May 26 2010 16:52 GMT
#712
On May 27 2010 00:19 okum wrote:
I'm not that familiar with Effort's style and qualities, but what I remember from his period of domination a couple of months back is that he was insanely good at sending small groups zerglings all over the map and somehow making every one of them effective.


Check JD vs Fantasy Game 2 of the last OSL that JD won. He did the same thing and made every one of them count. Effort is not better than JD at all. It's just that JD prefers to end games as soon as possible so he prefers bigger army clashes than Effort does. Effort tries to wear opponents down with constant harass. JD can do it too, but he can manage large armies better than anyone in the world except maybe Flash, so he prefers it.
WWJDD??
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
May 26 2010 17:18 GMT
#713
As much as I love CJ's new big hope, Effort. I have to agree with everyone that Effort is in every way inferior to Jaedong. But this doesn't mean anything bad. Jaedong is the most complete player to ever play the game.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 26 2010 18:42 GMT
#714
I like how you only agree with the Jaedong half of my post.
Remember Violet.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
May 26 2010 18:59 GMT
#715
On May 27 2010 03:42 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I like how you only agree with the Jaedong half of my post.


Don't take me wrong. In terms of micro, macro, management and multitasking Flash surely is on par with Jaedong. But JD's edge in bo5s just makes him more complete.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 26 2010 19:00 GMT
#716
I was more talking about in being better than Effort.
Remember Violet.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
May 26 2010 20:22 GMT
#717
On May 26 2010 07:44 Mortality wrote:
Effort has a much more chaotic late game than either Flash or Jaedong. He really tries to do shit everywhere. What's amazing is how well it works. I won't go so far as to say that he has better game management than those two, but on his good days he's every bit as good. He lacks consistency. And I think part of it is that Flash and Jaedong have historically been better at arranging the battles they fight. No matter how fast you are, your hands will feel slow if your opponent is the one choosing the battles.


So, if EffOrt turns this into consistent success after knocking off Flash...

...does this make EffOrt the new Bisu? Huge multitask, occasional terrible PL games, winning out over a legend for the first gold?
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 26 2010 20:36 GMT
#718
Effort came along a bit early in Flash's dominance for him to be Bisu. He's in the exact same position Mind was after beating Bisu: A relative newcomer who shocked everyone by beating a dual title holder who was on his way to becoming the new Bonjwa. He might turn into the antithesis of Mind.
Remember Violet.
Mooncat
Profile Joined October 2007
Germany1228 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-26 22:10:26
May 26 2010 21:47 GMT
#719
On May 27 2010 03:59 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2010 03:42 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I like how you only agree with the Jaedong half of my post.


Don't take me wrong. In terms of micro, macro, management and multitasking Flash surely is on par with Jaedong. But JD's edge in bo5s just makes him more complete.


First of all, let's wait and see what their next Bo5 brings, shall we?

Furthermore saying that Jaedong was a more "complete" player is quite wrong imho and basically opposes everything that is usually said about the two. Jaedong is a very good player no doubt, but he's a Bo5 specialist, that's where he really shines. That is also the reason for his many SL Titles. He easily has the skills to reach the Bo5 stages of a starleague and once he reaches those, he's very hard to stop. However he is quite prone to drop a game or even a Bo3 to scrubs every now and then and he periodically has mini-slumps, hence the lower win percentage and ELO peaks than Flash.

Flash on the other hand is the more "complete" player, if you can call it that. He barely ever loses to scrubs or "lesser players", he absolutely dominates in every matchup, has insane win percentages, broke just about every ELO record, and made it to dual SL Finals TWICE and back to back, all at the age of 17(!). And imho he also has slightly better micro/macro/multitasking/management and impromptu decision making and reactions than JD.

Please do not misunderstand this post. I'm not saying either one of them is the better player. + Show Spoiler +
although I obviously think it's Flash
I just think calling Jaedong the more "complete" player is as wrong as you can be, but of course that's my personal definition of a "complete" player.
"[Lee Young Ho] With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status."
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States8082 Posts
May 26 2010 22:44 GMT
#720
Effort beats Kal and Flash and is suddenly a better lategame multitasker than Jaedong. Cause he's got more APM. Ok.
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