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Osaka27178 Posts
As reported earlier by WaxAngel, many pro teams have been complaining to OGN about the new Map Demon's Forest. As written here, the majority of complaints are about the tree doodads in the middle of the map. These doodads cause glitches in unit behaviors, specifically with vultures laying mines and archons being warped. (Although god knows how dragoons fair with their spastic behavior).
 Now the complaints have reached a crescendo that OGN cannot ignore. Today Fobbish sourced a FighterForum.com article which confirmed the map will be removed after the current round of 16 is completed.
The remaining games which will be affected are  Rock vs  Flash tomorrow, Stork vs  Rumble on Friday, BeSt vs Jaedong on the 30th, and sAviOr vs Sea on Feb. 1st.
The marks the second map within the past year that has been removed from play in mid-season. During the last ProLeague, DMZ was removed as a 2v2 map. Historically this is the third map removed, as Valley of the Wind was taken out of the 2004 ProLeague after a single game.
2008 has been a real disappointment to fans in terms of maps. The MSL decided to use the same map pool as their previous tournament, removing one of the few exciting elements from their otherwise laborious round of 32. According to all indications, OGN map makers knew of the potential problems prior to releasing the map, but did so anyway. It is about time that both OGN, MBC, and their joint ProLeague efforts realized that fans like new maps. It is one of their most tangible connections to the proscene, and an aspect of the game that creates diversity and interest. Continued neglect of this aspect of progaming can only hurt the industry.
For a look at the balance of the current ProLeague maps prior to this Sunday's finals, please read Daigomi's great Final Edit's article here.
Mani 
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Wowie, that means there is a grand total of 1 new map(s..) for the osl and msl. Disappointing to say the least.
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Ugh, I liked the Forest concept, I hope it returns in the future (albeit maybe a bit toned down)
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Same I like the idea of a map with a forest in it, but just have less trees.
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Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On January 22 2008 14:24 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Ugh, I liked the Forest concept, I hope it returns in the future (albeit maybe a bit toned down)
It's not a bad concept, just wayyyy too tight with the doodad placement. A little more spaced out wouldn't be bad. And at least something a little more visually appealing would help too.
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We need some new maps; so many possibilities haven't been explored, so many innovative things not implemented yet...
:[ How could they not shell out new maps, BWMN does it all the time XD
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Melbourne5338 Posts
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Osaka27178 Posts
Apparently I was utilizing the "random thread generator" mechanism of TL.net.
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i told gtr it was bad
he said it was brilliant and ingenious
but i knew it was bad
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Doh, I was liking that map too 
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i never even got to play it !
I thought The Exorcist was going to be another new map replacing it at first, and i got excited
damn you manifesto!!!!!(7)
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United States7166 Posts
nice news post!
small typo error:
On January 22 2008 14:15 Manifesto7 wrote:
According top all indications, OGN map makers knew of the potential problems prior
yea.. maps are so important..which is why I am worried for SC2 in this aspect (given their history with poor maps that came with SC/BW/WC3/TFT)
well at least there will always be other mapmakers like those from mapdori
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It looked like a pretty cool map otherwise; wish they kept it but just removed the trees.
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Is there a particular reason (or reasons) why this map would not be suitable for compeditive play with some minor fixes like having the 'glitchy' trees removed? I would be interested to hear the thoughts of some of you more experienced players/enthusiasts. This situation seems especially unfortunate to me with regards this map having a potentially profound effect on some players' OSL performance, and then immediately being removed entirely well before the completion of the tournament.
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United States10774 Posts
THE EXORCIST HAS ARRIVEDDDD
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
hehe funny reference
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When I said the map was DMZ level bad, I was almost right. It was played for a round, instead of scraped before even happening.
I called it! [brag mode off]
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Osaka27178 Posts
On January 22 2008 17:04 {88}iNcontroL wrote:hehe funny reference
I figure my target audience is a little young, but I don't care.
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Hungary11305 Posts
At least there is only one PvT where the minelaying glitches could really count (Flash vs. Rock tomorrow). Archons you can at least morph where you want and keep them out of the wood and TvZ is naturally less dependant on mines.
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I have tested the vult mine bug: i managed to get 4 vults stuck on top of a tree just by laying mines around the area. The vults were constantly spinning on the spot and it was impossible to move them anywhere else with 'stop', 'move' or 'attack'.
Hence I agree that this map sucks
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On January 22 2008 17:46 Manifesto7 wrote:I figure my target audience is a little young, but I don't care.
Imo Ogn made the right decission
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i just felt those trees would mean trouble. hopefully a good makeover will bring it back in the leagues.
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is awesome32281 Posts
No new maps cept for Troy. Sucks : [
KILL FANTASY AND KATRINA PLEASE.
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On January 22 2008 14:32 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2008 14:24 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Ugh, I liked the Forest concept, I hope it returns in the future (albeit maybe a bit toned down) It's not a bad concept, just wayyyy too tight with the doodad placement. A little more spaced out wouldn't be bad. And at least something a little more visually appealing would help too.
exactly my tought.
When all three races had problems why not just fix it by more space. I mean the concept will be the same just not as aggressive as before. And without the trees the map looks very pale wich is unusual, seeing as how they allways decorate their maps.
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Vultures lay mines and Archons warp.
Well it's called Demon's Forest after all.
Honestly, they should keep it.
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I'm glad they're getting rid of this worthless map.
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For anyone wondering exactly what it is.
PS: For all you saying "I told you this would happen!": Please shut the fuck up. Not for the reason you thought it would. It's nothing like DMZ. It's the first map ever to be removed because it was buggy, and it was just a mistake by the map making team. It was a really cool idea so it was hard to lay down. I'm sure they've learned their lesson. If vultures lurkers and archons did not bug out, this map would be amazing, so stfu
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They should do it on jungle terrain with green trees and more space between the tree doodads
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Calgary26003 Posts
On January 23 2008 02:00 PsycHOTemplar wrote:For anyone wondering exactly what it is. PS: For all you saying "I told you this would happen!": Please shut the fuck up. Not for the reason you thought it would. It's nothing like DMZ. It's the first map ever to be removed because it was buggy, and it was just a mistake by the map making team. It was a really cool idea so it was hard to lay down. I'm sure they've learned their lesson. If vultures lurkers and archons did not bug out, this map would be amazing, so stfu
On top of being glitchy, it used an imbalanced concept which was poorly executed.
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Well, it was a nice idea.
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Its a problem that there arent new maps? Good news I'd say. Fucked up maps mess up people's work (progamer's job), new, sometimes not enough tested maps are just something that looks good on an advertisement, thats all. How about main map pool of known and tested maps, there is a lot of them: nostalgia, rush hour etc etc new or old. Take 3 good maps and 1 new and its fine. Why not stick to this ratio and just change well balanced maps to other to avoid dullness.
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Should also be mentioned that golis vs carriers can be a pain midgame in the middle of the forest.
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What was wrong with Valleys of the Wind such that it was gone after one game?
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On January 23 2008 03:43 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2008 02:00 PsycHOTemplar wrote:For anyone wondering exactly what it is. PS: For all you saying "I told you this would happen!": Please shut the fuck up. Not for the reason you thought it would. It's nothing like DMZ. It's the first map ever to be removed because it was buggy, and it was just a mistake by the map making team. It was a really cool idea so it was hard to lay down. I'm sure they've learned their lesson. If vultures lurkers and archons did not bug out, this map would be amazing, so stfu On top of being glitchy, it used an imbalanced concept which was poorly executed.
And it is incredibly ugly.
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And it is incredibly ugly.
Ugh yes.
At least watching carriers on Katrina is kinda pretty.
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On January 23 2008 04:57 Pafnucy wrote:
Its a problem that there arent new maps? Good news I'd say. Fucked up maps mess up people's work (progamer's job), new, sometimes not enough tested maps are just something that looks good on an advertisement, thats all. How about main map pool of known and tested maps, there is a lot of them: nostalgia, rush hour etc etc new or old. Take 3 good maps and 1 new and its fine. Why not stick to this ratio and just change well balanced maps to other to avoid dullness.
Sry but this is bullshit.
Would be boring as hell although I would approve if they'd put one classic map in the pool each season.
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On January 22 2008 14:31 zoLo wrote:
Same I like the idea of a map with a forest in it, but just have less trees.
Yea I don't think the map would be a problem if they just had less trees
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On January 23 2008 06:35 useless wrote:
What was wrong with Valleys of the Wind such that it was gone after one game?
Hmm, I was wondering this myself. The map on TLPD doesn't look THAT horrible.
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is awesome32281 Posts
for instance TvP:
T can 14 cc, go tanks and cliff your natural, and buildings in your base if you don't build them all in the center. From there its just a mess.
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China3334 Posts
On January 23 2008 06:35 useless wrote:
What was wrong with Valleys of the Wind such that it was gone after one game?
search my old blog entries, actually this map was played in several warm-up games of 2004 Gillette OSL. IIRC, Valley of the Wind is a half-island T-favored map. OGN removed it when the real season started.
April 9th
TheMarine > XellOs on Valley of Wind
April 13rd
Doggi > Rainbow on Valley of Wind
April 15th
Silent_Control > Kingdom on Valley of Wind
April 16th
NaDa > Zeus on Valley of Wind
edit: they also removed Guernica at that time.
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It seems like the map could only really be fixed with a Blizzard patch to starcraft. It's a bit late in the game's life to be messing with unit AI though.
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On January 23 2008 02:00 PsycHOTemplar wrote:For anyone wondering exactly what it is. PS: For all you saying "I told you this would happen!": Please shut the fuck up. Not for the reason you thought it would. It's nothing like DMZ. It's the first map ever to be removed because it was buggy, and it was just a mistake by the map making team. It was a really cool idea so it was hard to lay down. I'm sure they've learned their lesson. If vultures lurkers and archons did not bug out, this map would be amazing, so stfu
lol. Way to tell them off.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3638/demformf3.jpg)
