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Soulkey 4 - 3 Innovation - WCS KR Finals Recap - Page 3

Forum Index > News
197 CommentsPost a Reply
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RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
June 01 2013 12:59 GMT
#41
The world hasn't seen the true Starcraft bonjwa yet. He plays Random, and will, for once and for all, put to rest all talk of racial imbalances.
gg no re thx
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
June 01 2013 13:00 GMT
#42
Wow, GG's Soulkey. That series alone has made me a fan
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
June 01 2013 13:11 GMT
#43
On June 01 2013 21:49 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2013 21:45 theMagus wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:35 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:31 Powerfoe wrote:
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.


If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.


Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.


people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously


Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.

It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third.
So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
June 01 2013 13:14 GMT
#44
Great final,deserved win! GG Soulkey!
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
June 01 2013 13:15 GMT
#45
On June 01 2013 22:11 Hryul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2013 21:49 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:45 theMagus wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:35 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:31 Powerfoe wrote:
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.


If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.


Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.


people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously


Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.

It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third.
So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.


Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.
gg no re thx
Sc2Wrath
Profile Joined February 2013
United Kingdom58 Posts
June 01 2013 13:16 GMT
#46
I honestly thought Innovation was going to win, but I did having soulkey in the back of my mind, thinking it might just happen. I didn't expect it, however I'm not that surprised.
Life | Taeja | HerO | Flash | Jaedong
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
June 01 2013 13:19 GMT
#47
Great write up! That was an exciting series to follow. So glad I woke up early to catch it
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
OneSpeed
Profile Joined June 2012
Norway47 Posts
June 01 2013 13:19 GMT
#48
Hey look, another Zerg championship... yaaayyy.......

Guess the race is weak after all (ultra sarcasm mode)
I only got one speed
Tsubbi
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7996 Posts
June 01 2013 13:26 GMT
#49
now all we need is jörgen beating innovation next week and everything is right in the world again
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
June 01 2013 13:29 GMT
#50
On June 01 2013 22:15 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2013 22:11 Hryul wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:49 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:45 theMagus wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:35 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:31 Powerfoe wrote:
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.


If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.


Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.


people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously


Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.

It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third.
So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.


Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.

Fair point. Soulkey was quite unpredictable while Innovation had a quite narrow textbook of builds to choose from. Seems like solid play only gets you this far.
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
Snorkels
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1015 Posts
June 01 2013 13:41 GMT
#51
BWAHAHA I jokingly called a reverse all-kill to start the night, should have got a bet on that. Sick turnaround by Soulkey, after 2 he was tt pretty hard, that's a pro comeback.

To the VODs!
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
June 01 2013 13:44 GMT
#52
On June 01 2013 21:25 RKC wrote:
Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:

1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence

Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.

And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.

And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.


2. Soulkey's drop defence

We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.

While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.

'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.


This should have been posted in the LR thread. This is exactly what i thought and what i saw. One could see Soulkeys sheer intelligence in game 1 and 6. The way he learned/adapted was really a beautiful thing to watch. Both players have huge respect towards each others macro game, which is why it was obvious that both would use cheeses. But the way soulkey kept playing better and better after going down 0-3 was really exciting to watch and the final game was really satisfying to watch since innovation looked just as helpless as all of his previous zerg opponents who made a few too many bad trades and got overrun, the same way innovation was overrun after loosing his medivacs.
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
June 01 2013 13:45 GMT
#53
On June 01 2013 22:29 Hryul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2013 22:15 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 22:11 Hryul wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:49 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:45 theMagus wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:35 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:31 Powerfoe wrote:
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.


If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.


Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.


people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously


Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.

It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third.
So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.


Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.

Fair point. Soulkey was quite unpredictable while Innovation had a quite narrow textbook of builds to choose from. Seems like solid play only gets you this far.


I was torn between the two. I wanted to root for Innovation, because I wanted to finally see someone replicating Flash's solid dominant "I'll just do my own shit and there's nothing you can do about it" play in BW. But alas, Innovation failed the test. Maybe the true God will rise and take His rightful place on the throne...
gg no re thx
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-01 13:50:45
June 01 2013 13:47 GMT
#54
On June 01 2013 22:45 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2013 22:29 Hryul wrote:
On June 01 2013 22:15 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 22:11 Hryul wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:49 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:45 theMagus wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:35 RKC wrote:
On June 01 2013 21:31 Powerfoe wrote:
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.


If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.


Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.


people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously


Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.

It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third.
So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.


Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.

Fair point. Soulkey was quite unpredictable while Innovation had a quite narrow textbook of builds to choose from. Seems like solid play only gets you this far.


I was torn between the two. I wanted to root for Innovation, because I wanted to finally see someone replicating Flash's solid dominant "I'll just do my own shit and there's nothing you can do about it" play in BW. But alas, Innovation failed the test. Maybe the true God will rise and take His rightful place on the throne...

Well there still are the global finals. One can only hope he gets better at deflecting these attacks.

Edit: Well, better: He tweaks his BO so that there isn't that damn 12 minute vulnerability.
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
June 01 2013 13:49 GMT
#55
On June 01 2013 22:44 Bam Lee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2013 21:25 RKC wrote:
Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:

1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence

Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.

And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.

And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.


2. Soulkey's drop defence

We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.

While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.

'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.


This should have been posted in the LR thread. This is exactly what i thought and what i saw. One could see Soulkeys sheer intelligence in game 1 and 6. The way he learned/adapted was really a beautiful thing to watch. Both players have huge respect towards each others macro game, which is why it was obvious that both would use cheeses. But the way soulkey kept playing better and better after going down 0-3 was really exciting to watch and the final game was really satisfying to watch since innovation looked just as helpless as all of his previous zerg opponents who made a few too many bad trades and got overrun, the same way innovation was overrun after loosing his medivacs.


Thanks.

Soulkey reminded me of the typical Japanese anime character (mostly bad guys) who just won't die. After taking beating after beating, he quickly learns his opponent's style and forms news defences on the fly, and eventually emerges victorious. Like Kiriyama of Battle Royale.
gg no re thx
Shinta)
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1716 Posts
June 01 2013 14:01 GMT
#56
Really pathetic finals. I was hoping for some good games from two awesome players.

They are both such awesome players, but they decided to cheese and get extremely nervous to ensure some poor games.
Almost all games were decided by poor micro mistakes and bad decision making that is completely uncharacteristic of them both. The level of play INoVation showed was less than 69% of his potential play, and Soulkey was also playing so poorly.

Although this was the GSL finals and they are the two best players in the world right now, I can't believe how many people are saying that was a good series. The fact that it was close doesn't make it good when you consider the fact that even top NA players could take games off of these "best players in the world".

Honestly, if SEn, Scarlet, DIMAGA, (name any other top formed foreigner) had played against these guys when they were playing like they did today, I'm sure they would have made it a close/exciting series, and possibly even upset.

Regardless, looking forward to watching them play like their normal, awesome selves next season!
Suteki Da Ne 素敵だね Isn't it Wonderful
DaddyX
Profile Joined April 2013
United States7 Posts
June 01 2013 14:01 GMT
#57
Why oh why did I go to bed when it was 3-0??? FML
RegiusX
Profile Joined April 2013
Honduras1 Post
June 01 2013 14:17 GMT
#58
The best comeback ever GG both but SoulKey made it sooooo EPIC
Zen Rest is here!
NaYa
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada9 Posts
June 01 2013 14:19 GMT
#59
On June 01 2013 23:01 DaddyX wrote:
Why oh why did I go to bed when it was 3-0??? FML


Oh man, you're not the only one >.<
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34171 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-01 15:48:14
June 01 2013 14:26 GMT
#60
I cant believe people saying "ZERG OP" after Innovation (TERRAN) was 3-0 ahead this was the work of SoulKey, NOT ZERG, anyway, this is hardly the best final (in gameplay at least) since both players, played well below their average... but it was awesome in the emotional side of things.

If anything, SoulKey can do this

well great final from the emotional point of view, really lacking in the gameplay department (Innovation losed 2 times in a row to the same build... really ?)
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
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