• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:16
CEST 19:16
KST 02:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Looking 4 Yaroslav: Enemy, Korchagin, WCG, Ukraine Foreign Brood War [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
Toronto invitational lan 22 august [ASL22] Ro24 Group A Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4687 users

Soulkey 4 - 3 Innovation - WCS KR Finals Recap - Page 10

Forum Index > News
197 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
warmus
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom196 Posts
June 02 2013 19:49 GMT
#181
Lets face it, everyone here has absolutely zero idea about what was innovation thinking. He plays this game at a level far beyond what we see with our spect mode. If he doesnt build tanks, its because he thinks he has an overall worse chance to win a particular game by building tanks, and no one here is competent enough to question that judgement. Yes after we see how things played out its easy to say that "he should of made tanks, duh" or "flying mutas into main worse decision ever" but that is so damn ignorant to say. He had to of practiced all these scenarios, and he concluded that his methods (the methods he presented in the finals no doubt) give him the highest winrate vs zerg.

All the credit here goes to SK, being down 0-3, and somehow he starts reading innovation like a book. Perfect builds, perfect mindgames. He was a step ahead of innovation, anticipating his every move and countering swiftly, snowballing every piece of information into convincing wins. There are no untested strategies used in GSL finals, there are no decisions which were not confirmed effective in the past. SK understood that, got into head of innovation, and against all odds, got the job done. Calling this series a throw is pretty stupid, it was a fantastic display of all the factors that make traditional sports such a treat to watch.
Gynuine
Profile Joined July 2012
4 Posts
June 02 2013 20:33 GMT
#182
Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-02 20:36:24
June 02 2013 20:35 GMT
#183
On June 03 2013 05:33 Gynuine wrote:
Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...

This post brought to you by.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Seriously though, there is no reasonable way to infer that a flop took place.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Buddy168
Profile Joined June 2012
United States157 Posts
June 02 2013 22:17 GMT
#184
Zerg still #1.

>.>

This pleases me.
"You're being a useless fucking asshole" - Day[9]
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-02 23:37:01
June 02 2013 23:36 GMT
#185
On June 03 2013 05:33 Gynuine wrote:
Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...

Sorry dude but you need to get with reality. Almost everything mentioned there is pretty normal. There was a long break to show the music videos ( probably contract to show music videos) and they wouldnt have been able to show them had innovation won 4-0 (They showed the rest of the music videos at this points thats why there wasn't a single music video afterward). People predict the winner, Catz predicted the winner even with the correct ratio 4-3, random forum ppl predicted the winner, doesn't mean anything. I can also guarantee you there is not a single caster in the world who would not try to sell a comeback, in fact if there were casting classes I bet that would probably be one of the things you learn to do. There is any number of reasons Innovation could play worse toward the end of the series, perhaps he has worse endurance than soulkey, perhaps he just messed up, people do that, and we've seen so many GSL finals where the underdog wins, in fact maybe even more times the underdog has won than lost.
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Howl41
Profile Joined September 2012
United States65 Posts
June 03 2013 03:30 GMT
#186
I cant help but think the illuminati had their hand in this one.



lol jk
<3 Bomer/Flash/Innovation/MMA/MVP/Demuslim/Forgg/Gumiho/Lucifron/SeleCT
Trasko
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden983 Posts
June 03 2013 05:18 GMT
#187
Love it. Gonna rewatch tonight
Jaedong <3
LaMbaL
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands7 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-03 08:21:21
June 03 2013 08:20 GMT
#188
On June 01 2013 21:25 RKC wrote:
Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:

1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence

Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.

And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.

And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.


2. Soulkey's drop defence

We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.

While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.

'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.


This was exactly how I saw these finals, which I thought were absolutely awesome. In fact, I would even go a step further:

These finals were a CLINIC on how to play Starcraft in a series against a known opponent, and a perfect demonstration of the, almost artful, beauty of mindgames in SC2. I learned more about Starcraft 2 from this series than of any I have ever watched, and I loved watching every minute of it.

Yes, there were many all-ins, but every game was decided by either a perfectly executed agression or a masterful scout and matching defense. They were trading blows in highly intelligent and very focussed punches and perfect blocks, and the level of play was so high that any mistakes almost irrevocably led to losing the match, which is why the games were so short in general.

Yes, I would have loved a few long, drawn-out lategames, but that is frankly not very likely at this level of play. The games werent short because Soulkey Innovation were not playing good enough, but because they were playing too good. All in all a truly great series as it was.
Oh, its true!
FastAce
Profile Joined August 2011
Bosnia-Herzegovina22 Posts
June 03 2013 11:43 GMT
#189
it was really a win "against all odds" for Soulkey. gg
ke_ivan
Profile Joined February 2011
Singapore374 Posts
June 03 2013 13:23 GMT
#190
Wow. Crazy
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
June 03 2013 13:45 GMT
#191
On June 03 2013 14:18 Trasko wrote:
Love it. Gonna rewatch tonight


Sad that I missed it- I'll have to rewatch for sure :D
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
Coolhwip
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden1381 Posts
June 03 2013 15:22 GMT
#192
When you look at the score this final seems pretty cool. But almost all games were boring one-sided cheeses tbh
crack
A)Fallen(Templa
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany2 Posts
June 03 2013 15:44 GMT
#193
matchfixing scandal #2?

User was warned for this post
OpTiKAiTech
Profile Joined April 2012
United States65 Posts
June 03 2013 21:54 GMT
#194
That was a great series. I greatly enjoyed watching those matches, even though I wanted Innovation to win.
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
June 04 2013 09:03 GMT
#195
aweful games, crazy storyline. Definitely a finals to remember. Surely not due to the shown gameplay.
zmsFlood
Profile Joined April 2013
Finland169 Posts
June 04 2013 12:23 GMT
#196
On June 03 2013 05:33 Gynuine wrote:
Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...


Dude you are seeing what you want to see. There are pretty simple explanations to all the points you talk about in your post. Just because something unexpected happens in this world, does not mean it's a conspiracy or rigged. Occams razor man
twitter.com/laurifalck | I don't want to get you drunk, but, ah, that's a very fine Chardonnay you're not drinking. | TLO!
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
June 08 2013 06:58 GMT
#197
I said Soulkey got this.
LiangHao
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
June 10 2013 19:56 GMT
#198
I wish I had gotten to see this . This was seriously a crazy finals. GG Soulkey.
User was warned for too many mimes.
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#127
Nicoract vs HeRoMaRinELIVE!
Serral vs Cure
RotterdaM354
Liquipedia
PiG Sty Festival
12:00
PiGFest Playoffs Day 1
herO vs ReynorLIVE!
PiGStarcraft1654
IntoTheiNu 751
ComeBackTV 550
TaKeTV 440
IndyStarCraft 225
3DClanTV 160
Rex132
BRAT_OK 97
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft1654
RotterdaM 354
IndyStarCraft 225
mouzHeroMarine 140
Rex 132
BRAT_OK 97
SHIN 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4431
Shuttle 1080
Britney 849
firebathero 194
hero 139
Dewaltoss 81
Mong 70
Liquid`Ret 27
Sexy 27
Hm[arnc] 17
[ Show more ]
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
scan(afreeca) 9
Dota 2
The International138631
Gorgc11125
singsing3100
Counter-Strike
fl0m6503
shoxiejesuss1650
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King82
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu232
Other Games
Grubby862
Beastyqt388
Hui .183
FrodaN172
crisheroes126
ArmadaUGS124
ToD86
KnowMe69
elazer65
Trikslyr61
QueenE55
DeMusliM52
Livibee43
Chillindude21
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 34
• mYiSmile125
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki1
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV315
League of Legends
• Jankos1396
• TFBlade980
Other Games
• Shiphtur284
• imaqtpie132
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
16h 44m
PiG Sty Festival
18h 44m
Zoun vs Solar
SHIN vs Maru
Patches Events
22h 44m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 18h
OSC
1d 22h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-19
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.