Hardly anyone gave Woongjin_Soulkey a chance headed into the finals of Code S. His opponent, STX_INnoVation, had racked up a 21 - 3 record against Zerg in HotS, the wins collected mostly against cream of the crop players including RorO, Symbol, and Life. Not even a week before the finals, Innovation had administered a savage beatdown on Soulkey in the Proleague, overwhelming him with the endless waves of marines, medivacs, and widow mines that were the hallmark of his style. With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
The first three games played out like most had expected, with Innovation destroying Soulkey. Within an hour, it looked like it was all but over for the Woongin Zerg. Only a handful of players had ever come back from a 0 - 2 deficit in the old Bo5 Brood War finals, and no one had ever come back from 0 - 3 in the GSL's best of sevens.
As it turns out, Soulkey is made of tougher stuff that anyone ever knew. Though it had been almost six years since GGPlay came back from a 0 - 2 deficit and won Woongjin Stars their last major title, Soulkey was able to assume the poise of his great predecessor. While it would have been easy to submit to despair, Soulkey found his resolve as his teammates cheered him on. He lived up his Korean billing as the "iron wall," though more in terms of mental fortitude than actual gameplay. Going on the offensive, Soulkey hit back with consecutive all-in attacks to tie up the series at 3 - 3 before Innovation even knew what hit him.
Even though Soulkey and Innovation went into the final game tied, the score was the only thing that was even. Innovation had been driven into the same corner Soulkey had been in just an hour ago, but instead of showing Soulkey's steely resolve, he showed that he was shaken. After both players set up for a standard macro game, a fatal, suicide-medivac drop mistake swung the game irrevocably in Soulkey's favor. The Woongjin Zerg didn't overreact to the unexpected windfall; he just calmly using his advantage to pick Innovation apart and force the final GG.
After Soulkey kept his composure over the course of seven games, winning the championship was like opening a pressure release valve. At the end of a long journey, the nearly five year veteran achieved the goal all pro-gamers aspire to. Compared to the many stoic GSL champions of the past, Soulkey allowed his emotions to flow freely, turning on the waterworks and expressing his love for his teammates, his family, and everyone who had supported him.
On the other hand, Innovation was as stoic in defeat as he had been in victory. Already, he seemed to be looking ahead to redemption at the Season Finals. After coming down from the stage, Soulkey also started looking to the future. In the post match press conference, winning the very first GSL-Proleague double crown seemed to be on his mind, as well as the impending season finals. The GSL, Proleague, and even the world? For the best player in StarCraft II, that's no dream.
Games Recap
Soulkey deals with one of life's harsh realities: Terrans bunker rush in finals.
Innovation decided to send a message in the first game of the night, opening up with one of Terran's most classic weapons: the proxy-barracks bunker rush. Even though Soulkey expected something of the sort and sent out a scouting overlord to potential proxy locations, he was unable to stop Innovation's clinically executed attack. After a failed defense, Soulkey quickly conceded the first set.
Since he had punished Soulkey with some old school cheese in game one, Innovation decided to show him one of Terran's new tricks in game two by opening with hellbat drops. However, this time Soulkey lived up to his reputation of being one of the most solid defenders in StarCraft, holding off the drops without any significant losses. On the back of a good economy, Soulkey also decided to play a distinctly HotS-ish game, going for a roach-hydra composition. While the composition seemed to catch Innovation off-guard at first, some over-aggressive attacks from Soulkey allowed Innovation to find his bearings again. Once Innovation got his endless-waves style of infantry attacks going, Soulkey was unable to keep up with the low mobility of roach-hydra and GG'd out as he crumbled across multiple fronts.
Soulkey feels the pressure after going down 0-3.
Game three was when the Zerg all-ins began to roll in. Innovation had shown some distinct weaknesses to good all-in play during his semi-final series with Symbol, and it was not something Soulkey could leave unexploited. However, things did not go as well as Soulkey would have hoped the first time around, as his speedling-baneling bust on Whirlwind was expertly thwarted thanks to excellent hellion-SCV micro from Innovation and some poor baneling hits on his own behalf. Though Soulkey attempted a follow-up all-in with roaches and banelings, it was entirely a desperation maneuver as Innovation just rode his advantage to an easy 3 – 0.
Facing elimination, Soulkey decided to stick to the gameplan and went a second all-in. This time he pulled out a mid-game speed-roach + speed-bane timing in on Atlas. By successfully hiding his strategy until the last possible moment, Soulkey was finally able to catch a break, barreling down Innovation's front door with overwhelming force and recovering a point. Soulkey also won a few bonus points for sheer style, contaminating Innovation's factory to prevent the production of defensive widow mines.
With the third consecutive all-in from Soulkey, it started to look like it might be a series. Roach-bane was the key to success once more, except this time at a more 'normal' early timing before lair. Innovation's greedy triple orbital style was punished yet again, and he sustained massive damage before finally holding off the attack. Not wanting to give Innovation even a chance of recovering and playing a macro game, Soulkey followed up with an even bigger bust to make the series 2 - 3.
In order to cut off his opponent's momentum, Innovation returned to that most venerable strategy, the proxy two-barracks rush. As in game one, Soulkey instinctively sniffed out Innovation's intent and scouted the barracks. But unlike in game one, Soulkey decided to cancel his building hatchery on the low ground, instead of committing himself to a drones vs. marines defense. It could not yet be called a failure for Innovation, who had defeated RorO in the exact same situation by setting up a bunker containment below the Zerg ramp and playing the game out normally.
Innovation's failed cheese rush is punished by Soulkey.
Unfortunately for Innovation, Soulkey was no RorO, and had definitely studied the Samsung Zerg's loss. He played decisively, going for banelings off one base to bust through the containment outside his base, and immediately counter all-ined his opponent. By a slim margin, Innovation was unable to hold, and he was forced to surrender a third GG just as easily as he forced them from Soulkey in the beginning.
The oldest Terran weapon having failed him in game six, Innovation decided that new technology would be the key to Terran salvation as he went for hellbat drops in the final game. On the other hand, Soulkey deemed that baneling busts could only take him so far, and that Daybreak was the perfect ground to show that he could take on Innovation in a standard game. After deflecting the hellbat drops with some defensive roaches, he transitioned into muta-ling-bane for the first time in the series. Innovation obliged the invitation to a standard game, taking his third and setting up to begin his endless aggression.
Innovation's every nightmare for the next ten years.
Was it nerves getting to Innovation, or was it just incredible foresight from Soulkey? It was hard to tell in the series' deciding moment. After using a viking to clear out overlords and confirm where Soulkey's mutalisks were, Innovation sent three medivacs on a bee line to Soulkey's main. There was just one important complication: the mutalisks that killed the probing viking were still there. Having already used afterburners earlier in the flight, Innovation was helpless as he watched three medivacs worth of troops get knocked from the skies.
After that, the game was just a formality for Soulkey. With a sudden gift of thirty supply, there was no way he was letting the game go. He gave Innovation a taste of his own medicine, using the mobility of his army to merciless pick apart an overstretched defense. Bit by bit, Innovation fell apart, until there was no option left but surrender.
Amazing series and an amazing comeback from Soulkey. I don't know how he did it, against the best TvZ in the world and against an opponent who seemed unstoppable he made GSL history.
give us a better series at the season finals, and have the other win . Still think these two are the best players going there, might be MVP can beat either?
and also, he scouted the mutalisks and I think he counted on soulkey having some sort of predictable movement pattern where he would never keep the mutalisks in the same place, but he should have paid attention to how they were in position to intercept drops and account for the possibility they would stay there (and at least save afterburners for the gap)
I expected Innovation to win, but still well played by both players especially SoulKey after down 0-3. I would say the game is pretty balanced right now with 4-3. GG to Soulkey and Innovation.
Cut Soulkey some slack will ya? First Hots GSL champion. Coming back FOUR in a row games. Coming back against Innovation, who beat Life, Symbol, Roro and was on a rampage vs zerg. Some people.
Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:
1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence
Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.
And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.
And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.
2. Soulkey's drop defence
We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.
While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.
'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.
On June 01 2013 21:14 xXxUnseenxXx wrote: zerg... nothing more i can say
balance whine after innovation has a 77% winrate, that was even higher before he choked is deninitely immature and absolutely not necessary. winning 4 games in a row with that amount of pressure is a huge accomplishment to say the least! In SPL Pro League, zerg is also still underperforming nevertheless.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
well... after innovation stomping soulkey in pro league and being so dominant against zerg, i sincerely doubt, that the predicitons of the korean casters were more than a marketing hype... especially because inno nearly stomped soulkey again, but well.... in soccer there´s a saying that the game is 90 minutes long...and this time the war went on 7 rounds and not 3.... :D
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
well... after innovation stomping soulkey in pro league and being so dominant against zerg, i sincerely doubt, that the predicitons of the korean casters were more than a marketing hype... especially because inno nearly stomped soulkey again, but well.... in soccer there´s a saying that the game is 90 minutes long...and this time the war went on 7 rounds and not 3.... :D
Stomp in SPL? I didn't watch the recent game, but people were describing it as a closely-fought macro game. Sure, Innovation had the momentum, and again, I would've given him the edge. In footballing terms, it would be like the Bayern-Dortmund CL finals. Everyone was raving how Bayern would roll over Dortmund. They didn't. They won, but it was a close match, that could've gone to Dortmund.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
well... after innovation stomping soulkey in pro league and being so dominant against zerg, i sincerely doubt, that the predicitons of the korean casters were more than a marketing hype... especially because inno nearly stomped soulkey again, but well.... in soccer there´s a saying that the game is 90 minutes long...and this time the war went on 7 rounds and not 3.... :D
Stomp in SPL? I didn't watch the recent game, but people were describing it as a closely-fought macro game. Sure, Innovation had the momentum, and again, I would've given him the edge. In footballing terms, it would be like the Bayern-Dortmund CL finals. Everyone was raving how Bayern would roll over Dortmund. They didn't. They won, but it was a close match, that could've gone to Dortmund.
soccer and sc2 should not be compared imo xD, sc2 is exciting....
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
completely agree with you. this finals was a nailbiter!
It was not as flashy as I hoped, but the final scoreline was. I'm really upset about INnoVation losing, but you've got to give Soulkey credit for handling a 0-3 deficit so well.
Both players looked strong and weak at the same time, they probably felt the pressure from their first final. I'm hoping they will both be back even stronger for the WCS Finals next week.
Until then, Soulkey is now the best player in the world (another Zerg... when does it stop...), but hey, in SC2, things like that change so quickly.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third. So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third. So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.
Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.
I honestly thought Innovation was going to win, but I did having soulkey in the back of my mind, thinking it might just happen. I didn't expect it, however I'm not that surprised.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third. So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.
Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.
Fair point. Soulkey was quite unpredictable while Innovation had a quite narrow textbook of builds to choose from. Seems like solid play only gets you this far.
BWAHAHA I jokingly called a reverse all-kill to start the night, should have got a bet on that. Sick turnaround by Soulkey, after 2 he was tt pretty hard, that's a pro comeback.
On June 01 2013 21:25 RKC wrote: Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:
1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence
Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.
And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.
And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.
2. Soulkey's drop defence
We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.
While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.
'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.
This should have been posted in the LR thread. This is exactly what i thought and what i saw. One could see Soulkeys sheer intelligence in game 1 and 6. The way he learned/adapted was really a beautiful thing to watch. Both players have huge respect towards each others macro game, which is why it was obvious that both would use cheeses. But the way soulkey kept playing better and better after going down 0-3 was really exciting to watch and the final game was really satisfying to watch since innovation looked just as helpless as all of his previous zerg opponents who made a few too many bad trades and got overrun, the same way innovation was overrun after loosing his medivacs.
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third. So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.
Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.
Fair point. Soulkey was quite unpredictable while Innovation had a quite narrow textbook of builds to choose from. Seems like solid play only gets you this far.
I was torn between the two. I wanted to root for Innovation, because I wanted to finally see someone replicating Flash's solid dominant "I'll just do my own shit and there's nothing you can do about it" play in BW. But alas, Innovation failed the test. Maybe the true God will rise and take His rightful place on the throne...
With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.
If GomTV's Korean casters aren't what TeamLiquid's writers consider "experts" then I don't know what to say.
Before the games, I would give Innovation a 55-45 chance of winning. People were making it seem more like 70-30 or 80-20. I think most people underrated Soulkey, and now seem to be venting their frustrations on the quality of the games, and making it seem like Innovation lost it rather than Soulkey won it - which is rather unfair, I think.
people on tl do this shit all the time when their favorites don't win. standard stuff that's not to be taken seriously
Yeah, but we just watched an epic comeback, and a well-planned and well-executed one by Soulkey. Painful as it to be an Innovation fan, it was a massive victory for e-sports. A bit sad if fans can't appreciate the ocassion.
It surely was well executed by Soulkey but the third roach/ling/bling allin in a row shouldn't have won that easily. Also Daybreak is a terrible map for dropplay since the layout allows for just two angles: main and third. So Soulkeys "waiting" mutas were a flash of brilliance and innovations didn't pay attention.
Honestly, for all the hype about Innovation, all he basically did besides proxy-rax was fast-expands and drops. It was just wired in his mind, and gameplan for all non-proxy games. Whilst being solid, he wasn't innovating. In contrast, Soulkey reacted quite well, in all games, and showed diversity in his play (his roach/bling/ling had slightly different subtle timings - which made it harder for Innovation to anticipate). That's why, in my mind, Soulkey was the true innovator in the series, and his innovation was key in beating Innovation.
Fair point. Soulkey was quite unpredictable while Innovation had a quite narrow textbook of builds to choose from. Seems like solid play only gets you this far.
I was torn between the two. I wanted to root for Innovation, because I wanted to finally see someone replicating Flash's solid dominant "I'll just do my own shit and there's nothing you can do about it" play in BW. But alas, Innovation failed the test. Maybe the true God will rise and take His rightful place on the throne...
Well there still are the global finals. One can only hope he gets better at deflecting these attacks.
Edit: Well, better: He tweaks his BO so that there isn't that damn 12 minute vulnerability.
On June 01 2013 21:25 RKC wrote: Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:
1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence
Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.
And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.
And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.
2. Soulkey's drop defence
We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.
While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.
'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.
This should have been posted in the LR thread. This is exactly what i thought and what i saw. One could see Soulkeys sheer intelligence in game 1 and 6. The way he learned/adapted was really a beautiful thing to watch. Both players have huge respect towards each others macro game, which is why it was obvious that both would use cheeses. But the way soulkey kept playing better and better after going down 0-3 was really exciting to watch and the final game was really satisfying to watch since innovation looked just as helpless as all of his previous zerg opponents who made a few too many bad trades and got overrun, the same way innovation was overrun after loosing his medivacs.
Thanks.
Soulkey reminded me of the typical Japanese anime character (mostly bad guys) who just won't die. After taking beating after beating, he quickly learns his opponent's style and forms news defences on the fly, and eventually emerges victorious. Like Kiriyama of Battle Royale.
Really pathetic finals. I was hoping for some good games from two awesome players.
They are both such awesome players, but they decided to cheese and get extremely nervous to ensure some poor games. Almost all games were decided by poor micro mistakes and bad decision making that is completely uncharacteristic of them both. The level of play INoVation showed was less than 69% of his potential play, and Soulkey was also playing so poorly.
Although this was the GSL finals and they are the two best players in the world right now, I can't believe how many people are saying that was a good series. The fact that it was close doesn't make it good when you consider the fact that even top NA players could take games off of these "best players in the world".
Honestly, if SEn, Scarlet, DIMAGA, (name any other top formed foreigner) had played against these guys when they were playing like they did today, I'm sure they would have made it a close/exciting series, and possibly even upset.
Regardless, looking forward to watching them play like their normal, awesome selves next season!
I cant believe people saying "ZERG OP" after Innovation (TERRAN) was 3-0 ahead this was the work of SoulKey, NOT ZERG, anyway, this is hardly the best final (in gameplay at least) since both players, played well below their average... but it was awesome in the emotional side of things.
If anything, SoulKey can do this
well great final from the emotional point of view, really lacking in the gameplay department (Innovation losed 2 times in a row to the same build... really ?)
On June 01 2013 23:01 Shinta) wrote: Really pathetic finals. I was hoping for some good games from two awesome players.
They are both such awesome players, but they decided to cheese and get extremely nervous to ensure some poor games. Almost all games were decided by poor micro mistakes and bad decision making that is completely uncharacteristic of them both. The level of play INoVation showed was less than 69% of his potential play, and Soulkey was also playing so poorly.
Although this was the GSL finals and they are the two best players in the world right now, I can't believe how many people are saying that was a good series. The fact that it was close doesn't make it good when you consider the fact that even top NA players could take games off of these "best players in the world".
Honestly, if SEn, Scarlet, DIMAGA, (name any other top formed foreigner) had played against these guys when they were playing like they did today, I'm sure they would have made it a close/exciting series, and possibly even upset.
Regardless, looking forward to watching them play like their normal, awesome selves next season!
Sorry, I don't think you follow enough sports enough. Seldom do you see "standard games" or "beautiful games" in finals. There is so much meta-gaming involved. And even in football finals, goals (if there is even one, in normal time) are often crafted out a single oversight or slip-up, or rather, there is something can be done to prevent the goal. Just because a game is not flawless, doesn't mean the players are not giving their best. Sometimes, a mistake is magnified just because it happens in a final, whilst on any other ocassion it would be accepted.
If you want purely visually entertaining finals, maybe pro-wrestling is your cup of tea.
For me, the series was entertaining, because of the meta-game behind the actual plays on screen. Maybe it's just me.
I fell asleep at 3-0 Innovation. Woke up wondering if Innovation got it 4-1 or 4-2. Thought it was a joke when it said Soulkey got it 4-3. Guess not.
Just goes to show, In a BO5 and BO7 series, the skills that matter are very different from the skills that got you there (BO3's). Innovation should've played completely safe with early tanks like he did against symbol and going for the 11/11 in the 6th game was unnecessary. Innovation is just so use to dominating that you could tell he was shaken when it came down to the last game.
Not the greatest series but it goes to show how the Kespa players are evolving. They're now dominating mechanically but the emotional and mental game from playing a long series is not something they've quite mastered yet. This is an area where the king of wings dominated.
I can't wait until next week when we get to see Innovation try to redeem himself. The King of Wings is waiting and ready as well.
The match up was really, really balanced but what tipped the scales were the nerves of Soulkey who managed to hold firm until the very end, unlike Innovation. It's still a pretty fucking epic series..
I feel bad for Innovation really. He was favorite, up 3-0 and just fell apart.
On June 01 2013 20:39 Grumbels wrote: the best match-up in tvz, the best players in soulkey and innovation, the best score in 4-3, yet it was completely awful >.<
Too much cheese for my taste and I'm glad that Soulkey at least had the decency to not play a roach/bane all-in again on the last map. Those three medivacs lost for no reason in the last game, OMG, that is so out of character for Innovation.
Soulkey had the better nerves today, nerves made of steel. Soulkey the unbreakable indeed, wp!
Big props to Soulkey for not being shaken after going 0-3! i think that's the real highlight of the night considering how temperamental other Zerg players can be, lol.
I couldn't stay awake for this last night, but THANK CHRIST I was able to watch VODs this morning without seeing any spoilers. I had just finished explaining how much of an underdog Soulkey was reported to be to my gf before watching the series and then went nuts when Soulkey pulled it off.
It's a shame I didn't listen to my past self, before the group of death, when I voted for Innovation to win this. When I was thinking about Flash vs. Innovation and who was better, I felt like Flash would be better in a prepared match because of how amazing he is at preparing and giving wrong ideas before the games, but Innovation would be better if they suddenly had to play on the spot. People like Life, MVP, Flash and BW-Jaedong are all amazing series players because of how well they meta-game. Neither Innovation nor Soulkey is at that level yet, though Soulkey proved to be superior in this regard. This finals wasn't great gameplaywise, but it was absolutely amazing to watch two people mindgame each other this much during the games.
When Innovation started off with a 12/12 and easily winning the first game, I felt like he made a brilliant move. No one really expected him to do this right away, definitely not Soulkey, so he took a quick 1-0 lead. Not only that, now Soulkey had to keep this in mind for every other game of the series, even if Innovation wasn't doing it again. It seemed that 1-0 would make Innovation snowball to victory... but then when Soulkey won his first game I felt this could be his shot. Innovation seemed to be one step behind after that and unsure of what to do. The next game he seemed to prepare for a 3-base timing.. but then it was 2-base. He then started feeling the pressure, and he probably didn't want to 11/11 the final game, so he had to 11/11 the next map. Soulkey had to have this in the back of his mind for how thoroughly he scouted everywhere, and so he deserved the win yet again. The final map was basically Innovation trying anything to not lose, while Soulkey was playing to win.
It's hard to define what makes a "best player in the world". A few months ago it was easy, because Life was basically winning every single thing he entered. But during a final, it's not just micro/macro/in-game strategy that determines the winner. If it was, I feel Innovation would have won. But there's a reason players like MarineKing and Squirtle have never won a GSL and Mvp/Life won so many titles. It's that mental fortitude, the meta-gaming all around which defines who becomes champion and who doesn't.
Congrats to Soulkey, that was one well deserved victory (:
The worst gsl finals i ever seen i think. The games were awful :l , only cheeses and all ins, except by the last game which was not too good even being a macro game. The cheeses consist in 2 proxy rax, which is so..well, the only viable cheese right now against Z. That hellbats drops delayed too much the innovation pushes, i think it was a bad choice in 2 of the games
The level of play was really bad compared to earlier rounds. Innovation makes no siege tanks and gives Soulkey game 7 with those free drops. I can't tell who was the better player because of the screw-ups on both sides. Still worth watching though.
On June 01 2013 21:18 SupaDupaFlyPro wrote: When he was down 0-3 I told myself ''Ok it's over'' and I was about to go back to sleep. I'm glad I didn't :D Soulkey's tears were really touching...
... I did :-(
It was almost 5 here and I was practically sleeping in the comp chair... Oh how I regret it .........
I don't know, if anything I was rooting for Soulkey, but I was still a bit disappointed with the quality of the games. I understand why they would want to pull out so many cheeses in a long series, but it was a bit of a letdown as a viewer. The real shame was that both players played really well in individual games, like game 3 for innovation, and game 7 for soulkey, but they never both really turned it on at the same time for one game. Maybe game 2, but they both made some silly mistakes there, and its a bit depressing when the best game in a tvz series has the zerg going roach-hydra. You would expect them to both bring their a-game for game 7, but innovation seemed to have lost already, and was way to desperate to make something happen. Yeah, the 3 medivac thing could be chalked up to bad luck, but even besides that, he went for hellbat drops when it seems pretty clear that Soulkey knows exactly how to defend them, and he overextended himself on the map more than once.
On June 01 2013 23:01 Shinta) wrote: Really pathetic finals. I was hoping for some good games from two awesome players.
They are both such awesome players, but they decided to cheese and get extremely nervous to ensure some poor games. Almost all games were decided by poor micro mistakes and bad decision making that is completely uncharacteristic of them both. The level of play INoVation showed was less than 69% of his potential play, and Soulkey was also playing so poorly.
Although this was the GSL finals and they are the two best players in the world right now, I can't believe how many people are saying that was a good series. The fact that it was close doesn't make it good when you consider the fact that even top NA players could take games off of these "best players in the world".
Honestly, if SEn, Scarlet, DIMAGA, (name any other top formed foreigner) had played against these guys when they were playing like they did today, I'm sure they would have made it a close/exciting series, and possibly even upset.
Regardless, looking forward to watching them play like their normal, awesome selves next season!
Sorry, I don't think you follow enough sports enough. Seldom do you see "standard games" or "beautiful games" in finals. There is so much meta-gaming involved. And even in football finals, goals (if there is even one, in normal time) are often crafted out a single oversight or slip-up, or rather, there is something can be done to prevent the goal. Just because a game is not flawless, doesn't mean the players are not giving their best. Sometimes, a mistake is magnified just because it happens in a final, whilst on any other ocassion it would be accepted.
If you want purely visually entertaining finals, maybe pro-wrestling is your cup of tea.
For me, the series was entertaining, because of the meta-game behind the actual plays on screen. Maybe it's just me.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I was surprised reading some people being disappointed, then it occurred not everyone looks at the game at the same depth.
I was more focused on the amount of care put into their micro while extensively multi-tasking throughout the games alone, not to mention the amount of meta going on. Games where more mistakes are made by players are games that are more likely to last longer and go dramatically back and fourth. Games at this level where one mistake can almost definitely secure a victory and both players have a great game sense are not surprising to see be quick and concise.
On June 01 2013 21:18 SupaDupaFlyPro wrote: When he was down 0-3 I told myself ''Ok it's over'' and I was about to go back to sleep. I'm glad I didn't :D Soulkey's tears were really touching...
... I did :-(
It was almost 5 here and I was practically sleeping in the comp chair... Oh how I regret it .........
im sad i didnt go to sleep. not much was missed in the finals =_= 2 decent games out of 7, none even came close to the FPL game of last week :S
On June 01 2013 20:39 Grumbels wrote: the best match-up in tvz, the best players in soulkey and innovation, the best score in 4-3, yet it was completely awful >.<
ya! so hyped up. not one ultralisk or raven was given that day..
Holy crap. Called it. Was insane. To come back from 0-3 to take the series is pretty incredible, even with roach/baneling all ins. Very impressed. Soulkey's earned himself a new fan tonight.
7 games, 0 siege tanks. What is it about a siege tank that puts you so far behind, I guess it just delays the 5 raxs pressure by just enough to matter.
knew the games would go like this and all TvZs of Innovation will probably look like this in the future. His build holds more often then it loses and most of the time its just a Bo3 or Bo1 he plays, so no need to throw a curve ball. Still wanted to see the finals live though. But still a nice game plan for Innovation starting off like this in the first game, to bad Soulkey turned it around.
On June 02 2013 02:25 StickyIcky wrote: 7 games, 0 siege tanks. What is it about a siege tank that puts you so far behind, I guess it just delays the 5 raxs pressure by just enough to matter.
you need a Techlab on the Factory, thats probably the biggest part of it.Same goes for Marauders. Terran early games can work with reactor only now, so a techlab hinders your unit production.
On June 01 2013 20:39 Grumbels wrote: the best match-up in tvz, the best players in soulkey and innovation, the best score in 4-3, yet it was completely awful >.<
ya! so hyped up. not one ultralisk or raven was given that day..
On June 02 2013 02:15 IPA wrote: Blown away by people saying these we're bad games. Tense, scrappy, skirmish-centric.... LOVED this finals.
Sorry we didn't see a 200/200 ball clash into gg. We never see that right?
Exactly. This series was action backed from start to finish. Lots of aggression from both sides and that's never a bad thing.
Also have to say, Soulkey is probably my favourite champion. I mean, Mvp is my favourite player in the world after Nestea, but Soulkey becoming a champion was incredible to see. The emotion and everything was touching to see. He looks like such a genuinely nice guy. Deserved the win. Very impressive.
4:3 are close but how it was played extreme boring no epic moments at all, worst GSL finale i seen long time sadly On Wcs Europe was more interesting battles by far ....
I actually fell asleep after game 3 thinking that Innovation won I woke up to a game 7 and Soulkey destroying the 3 medavacs with his mutas. I knee I shouldn't have gone to sleep. Artosis even said not to go away cause there could be a game 7 still.
Sure non of the games were epic and drown out but the whole Bo7 strategy was incredible to watch and there were a lot of moments were the players displayed awe-inspiring skill.
On June 02 2013 03:12 skylarr wrote: Innovation choked, losing to 2 roach banelings when going greedy double CC, failed 2 rax, and losing 3 full medivacs
Soulkey really showed some nerve and pulled through. He used two nice 2 roach baneling timings, pushed off a tough cheese, and then caught Innovation's medivacs with their pants down.
Great finals. Amazing comeback and lots of cheese. Soulkey got a bit luck in game 7 but I still think he proved to have the most mental fortitude on the day.
On June 02 2013 02:40 rikudo74 wrote: all are saying innovation will take hi is best but no, the best teran is still mvp if mvp leads 3 : 0 he dosent lose
To be fair, MVP faces easier opposition than Innovation does, both now and when he was winning GSLs.
I don't get why anyone would watch any series and leave even if its a 3-0 and there's a game left. If you're watching the finals, or any series, you should be watching the whole series.
On June 02 2013 03:50 PSdualwielder wrote: I don't get why anyone would watch any series and leave even if its a 3-0 and there's a game left. If you're watching the finals, or any series, you should be watching the whole series.
Maybe because it's the middle of the night for them! :p
I really enjoyed this series, it was tense up until the 3 medivacs over-suicided. That was the tipping point.
Aww ... so intense games Had to get up kinda early in the morning here in germany and it was totally worth it. Too bad innovation did not make it BUT GAWD damnit , dat comeback of Soulkey ... AWESOME !
Hah.. awesome write-up. Was thinking a lot about the finals before I slept. I wanted a Terran to win, but I'm so happy for SK.. that was an excellent series. I thought for sure he was going to buckle. I couldn't imagine the pressure that was on him.
But as you said, his steely resolve paid off and he regained his composure. With epic games, SK closed it out 4:3 and followed it up with an emotional awards ceremony.
Good stuff by soulkey, the comeback really wasnt all that hype tho. Soulkey outmind gamed innovation, and bogus got overconfident after 3-0, then gambles at 3-2 on a heavy terrran favored map. He really lost the series to himself. I was hoping for a MMA vs DRG game 7 like a year ago ((
Huge props to Soulkey tho, not trying to discredit him in the slightest.
that was sick bunch of games, so glad i woke up very early so i could see it live, the timedifference screws everything up when u live in sweden and want to watch korean events
On June 02 2013 03:35 Fischbacher wrote: Great finals. Amazing comeback and lots of cheese. Soulkey got a bit luck in game 7 but I still think he proved to have the most mental fortitude on the day.
On June 02 2013 02:40 rikudo74 wrote: all are saying innovation will take hi is best but no, the best teran is still mvp if mvp leads 3 : 0 he dosent lose
To be fair, MVP faces easier opposition than Innovation does, both now and when he was winning GSLs.
You are right. And when Mvp EZs the WCS finals, you will still be right
On June 01 2013 23:01 Shinta) wrote: Really pathetic finals. I was hoping for some good games from two awesome players.
They are both such awesome players, but they decided to cheese and get extremely nervous to ensure some poor games. Almost all games were decided by poor micro mistakes and bad decision making that is completely uncharacteristic of them both. The level of play INoVation showed was less than 69% of his potential play, and Soulkey was also playing so poorly.
Although this was the GSL finals and they are the two best players in the world right now, I can't believe how many people are saying that was a good series. The fact that it was close doesn't make it good when you consider the fact that even top NA players could take games off of these "best players in the world".
Honestly, if SEn, Scarlet, DIMAGA, (name any other top formed foreigner) had played against these guys when they were playing like they did today, I'm sure they would have made it a close/exciting series, and possibly even upset.
Regardless, looking forward to watching them play like their normal, awesome selves next season!
Sorry, I don't think you follow enough sports enough. Seldom do you see "standard games" or "beautiful games" in finals. There is so much meta-gaming involved. And even in football finals, goals (if there is even one, in normal time) are often crafted out a single oversight or slip-up, or rather, there is something can be done to prevent the goal. Just because a game is not flawless, doesn't mean the players are not giving their best. Sometimes, a mistake is magnified just because it happens in a final, whilst on any other ocassion it would be accepted.
If you want purely visually entertaining finals, maybe pro-wrestling is your cup of tea.
For me, the series was entertaining, because of the meta-game behind the actual plays on screen. Maybe it's just me.
Sorry but I don't think YOU follow sports enough.... In the finals, you want to play solid and not lose. Teams always give it their all and play specifically so they don't screw up and lose a silly loss that will embarrass them. The point is to play the finals the same way you were able to win all of your other matches. INoVation played so far below the level he showed in literally all of his previous matches, it turned out to be a pity that he was in the finals. The games were not entertaining because they weren't doing much meta... INnoVation started off with a 2 rax, cool! That's great, and he won because Soulkey totally blew the game, which is exactly what INoVation wanted from that mind game play. After that wasn't so much meta play, buy terrible play. Both players stopped playing logically, and instead tried to throw timings together and after they got shut down they weren't able to think enough to provide even a decent competition, which isn't very hard, especially for these players who do it all the time... It's not that I was hoping these two would play perfect because its the finals, I just wanted then to not play like shit. Imagine going to a football finals. You want to see an awesome match and hopefully your team wins, but instead the result is that both teams accidentally scored on themselves, and the deciding goal, the defending goalie accidentally tripped and let a terrible shot go in.
That is how terrible I feel these guys played. No doubt they are incredible players, but their minds were in the gutter. INoVation forgot everything that allowed him to win all the way up to the finals. Not only that, but his micro and decision making were both really off in every game. Mostly showing poor micro, with glimpses of good micro. Soulkey was a little more entertaining to watch, but he also completely blew the first few games. Even with the advantage, he tried to take bad fights and try to finish the game rather than completely destroy INoVation like he easily could have.
Plz don't talk about the games being all "meta" and this "not standard"... The games were won off of who play worse, rather than who played better, and that's what made it a bad finals.
I'd love to watch more macro games, but this series was still epic in other ways. Intense mindgames and the tensions were crazy!! Congrats to Soulkey !
On June 02 2013 07:49 Brett wrote: So frustrating to watch INnovation just fall apart and fail to adapt :\
Really tired of zerg victories.
He has a great throwing arm.
Also, I think it's more of Soulkey not falling apart mentally than Zerg being OP. I'm high masters, or I would be if it wasn't for Zerg being OP ; (. + Show Spoiler +
Not the best games, but a great series. Very impressive hellbat drop defense by Soulkey, and very interesting 2 rax defense. Game 7 was pretty close to the macro game I wanted to see, but I feel like it was really decided by a) Soulkey's hellbat defense and b) that crazy terrible doom-drop.
I don't know why Innovation threw such a good map in Akilon for a bunker rush which he did before somewhere else.
But props to Soulkey, although he looked shaken after game 3, I guess his coach told him "You can't lose, do the meanest builds against Innovation to come back." Just what Soulkey did.
I'm curious if we'll see this matchup again at the Season Finals.
Nice write-up for an awesome series. I thought that while not all the games were "innovative" or interesting to watch, the drama of the entire series was brilliant. It was what a finals of this caliber are supposed to be like. I dig it. Go SoulKey!
On June 02 2013 00:43 Neemi wrote: It's hard to define what makes a "best player in the world". A few months ago it was easy, because Life was basically winning every single thing he entered. But during a final, it's not just micro/macro/in-game strategy that determines the winner. If it was, I feel Innovation would have won. But there's a reason players like MarineKing and Squirtle have never won a GSL and Mvp/Life won so many titles. It's that mental fortitude, the meta-gaming all around which defines who becomes champion and who doesn't.
Congrats to Soulkey, that was one well deserved victory (:
I think you're trying to glean far too much out of small sample sizes -- MKP & Squirtle were both one game away from being GSL champions. There's nothing particularly definitive about losing a championship by a 4-3 margin to conclude that guys like MKP, Squirtle, and Innovation are missing some sort of intangible like mental fortitude. There's always a certain degree of randomness in these matches.
Take this GSL final for example: If Innovation had played Game 4 a little differently and won that match, everyone would be raving about the drubbing Innovation put on Soulkey.
I accidentally spoiled myself as to the results of this finals before watching the VOD's, and because I already knew what was coming, I decided to try and pay attention to the visible emotion (or lack thereof, in some cases) shown by the players during the ebb and flow of this series. If anything, I think Innovation 'appeared' more composed (for what that's worth) as the the series swung against him. The ill-fated doom drop attempt in game 7 was quite reasonable when you consider that he probably thought he was losing after failing to do enough damage with the hellbats -- he saw a few mutas near Soulkey's base, but easily may have thought that they had moved. Perhaps he shouldn't have risked it in any event, but ultimately at this level the players have to take some calculated risks because you don't have perfect informtion about what your opponent is doing.
On a side note, entertaining though they are, Tastosis are pretty bad about pushing this perception of recent GSL results being the absolute, final word on player skill. At the beginning of this GSL they had crowned Rain as the best Protoss in the world; then by the Ro8 they determined that it was definitively Parting. Aside from maybe the coaches and players on SK Telecom T1 who know them both very well, there's not enough data to say.
On June 02 2013 07:21 KaiserCommander wrote: I told you all, "STOP MAKING SOULKEY THE UNDERDOG", because underdogs always win in the GSL... I'm still sad... why? why?...
On June 02 2013 07:21 KaiserCommander wrote: I told you all, "STOP MAKING SOULKEY THE UNDERDOG", because underdogs always win in the GSL... I'm still sad... why? why?...
I have a problem with this because I wouldn't really call SK an underdog. Yes, Bogus has looked mightily good over the last few months in TvZ, but their all-time record is very close. Unfortunately I wish they delivered better games. I was caught scratching my head many times. In terms of suspense it somewhat delivered, but the games were dreadful when you actually look at them in detail in terms of execution. They were all pretty one-sided except for I think game 2, but even then we didn't get a whole lot of foreplay. I guess my favorite moment was when Soulkey popped Bogus' v j j.
On June 02 2013 00:43 Neemi wrote: It's hard to define what makes a "best player in the world". A few months ago it was easy, because Life was basically winning every single thing he entered. But during a final, it's not just micro/macro/in-game strategy that determines the winner. If it was, I feel Innovation would have won. But there's a reason players like MarineKing and Squirtle have never won a GSL and Mvp/Life won so many titles. It's that mental fortitude, the meta-gaming all around which defines who becomes champion and who doesn't.
Congrats to Soulkey, that was one well deserved victory (:
I think you're trying to glean far too much out of small sample sizes -- MKP & Squirtle were both one game away from being GSL champions. There's nothing particularly definitive about losing a championship by a 4-3 margin to conclude that guys like MKP, Squirtle, and Innovation are missing some sort of intangible like mental fortitude. There's always a certain degree of randomness in these matches.
Take this GSL final for example: If Innovation had played Game 4 a little differently and won that match, everyone would be raving about the drubbing Innovation put on Soulkey.
I accidentally spoiled myself as to the results of this finals before watching the VOD's, and because I already knew what was coming, I decided to try and pay attention to the visible emotion (or lack thereof, in some cases) shown by the players during the ebb and flow of this series. If anything, I think Innovation 'appeared' more composed (for what that's worth) as the the series swung against him. The ill-fated doom drop attempt in game 7 was quite reasonable when you consider that he probably thought he was losing after failing to do enough damage with the hellbats -- he saw a few mutas near Soulkey's base, but easily may have thought that they had moved. Perhaps he shouldn't have risked it in any event, but ultimately at this level the players have to take some calculated risks because you don't have perfect informtion about what your opponent is doing.
On a side note, entertaining though they are, Tastosis are pretty bad about pushing this perception of recent GSL results being the absolute, final word on player skill. At the beginning of this GSL they had crowned Rain as the best Protoss in the world; then by the Ro8 they determined that it was definitively Parting. Aside from maybe the coaches and players on SK Telecom T1 who know them both very well, there's not enough data to say.
Ok, fair, but when MVP has won his 5th GSL and MKP has failed to close out his nth bo7 and ends up in second place again, doesn't the sample size start to look pretty solid?
As silly as I find it for us mere mortals to criticize the gameplay of such giants, I really couldn't shake the feeling that Innovation played like he was getting tired in the latter games.
Great games & series, but I'm sad that innovation lost. Don't want to take anything away from soulkey because he's obviously insanely good, but I honestly think inno's the better player that got roach all inned 3 times in a row,
He really should have added a tank to his builds lol :/
Well congrats to Soulkey(damn zerg mofo) he actually did deserve to win after that come back but like all terran players i feel so devo that happened, however i agree with both Mystical and SohcranA because Innovation looked and played like crap after the 5th or 6th set he basically lost all focus and made some huge mistakes which was unlike Innovation to make those sort of mistakes, and on the other hand doing a roach all in 3 hands was the biggest aids event that ever happend much like symbol and his raoch all in with the nydus worm it must be a zerg thing :p jokes, however out all the games that were played Innovation definately showed more and more class with the games he did win especially with that cheese.
On June 02 2013 07:21 KaiserCommander wrote: I told you all, "STOP MAKING SOULKEY THE UNDERDOG", because underdogs always win in the GSL... I'm still sad... why? why?...
To me the finals doesn't feel like Soulkey won it, it pretty much seems like Innovation lost it. If you get what I mean... I feel so sad for Innovation, however I don't doubt that he will strike back next season..
People seem to think that the build choices were a little strange, but I think that is potentially missing the point a bit. I cannot help but think INnoVation was playing some deep, deep mind games with Soulkey. Only problem was, either due to luck or skill Soulkey did not end up buying it. Although, the big drop that INnoVation lost in the final game had to just be nerves.
Like in poker for example - against a skilled opponent who knows you very well it can get very confusing to put the other player on the correct range. "He thinks that I will play a flush draw with ace over-card in a certain way, and I know this, but he knows I know this, and I know he knows I know this, etc." It can get pretty ridiculous. You look like a genius when things work out, but sometimes they do not.
Watching the games live was fantastically exciting in any case, no matter how it seems if you skip through the VODs. What a comeback.
Lets face it, everyone here has absolutely zero idea about what was innovation thinking. He plays this game at a level far beyond what we see with our spect mode. If he doesnt build tanks, its because he thinks he has an overall worse chance to win a particular game by building tanks, and no one here is competent enough to question that judgement. Yes after we see how things played out its easy to say that "he should of made tanks, duh" or "flying mutas into main worse decision ever" but that is so damn ignorant to say. He had to of practiced all these scenarios, and he concluded that his methods (the methods he presented in the finals no doubt) give him the highest winrate vs zerg.
All the credit here goes to SK, being down 0-3, and somehow he starts reading innovation like a book. Perfect builds, perfect mindgames. He was a step ahead of innovation, anticipating his every move and countering swiftly, snowballing every piece of information into convincing wins. There are no untested strategies used in GSL finals, there are no decisions which were not confirmed effective in the past. SK understood that, got into head of innovation, and against all odds, got the job done. Calling this series a throw is pretty stupid, it was a fantastic display of all the factors that make traditional sports such a treat to watch.
Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...
On June 03 2013 05:33 Gynuine wrote: Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...
On June 03 2013 05:33 Gynuine wrote: Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...
Sorry dude but you need to get with reality. Almost everything mentioned there is pretty normal. There was a long break to show the music videos ( probably contract to show music videos) and they wouldnt have been able to show them had innovation won 4-0 (They showed the rest of the music videos at this points thats why there wasn't a single music video afterward). People predict the winner, Catz predicted the winner even with the correct ratio 4-3, random forum ppl predicted the winner, doesn't mean anything. I can also guarantee you there is not a single caster in the world who would not try to sell a comeback, in fact if there were casting classes I bet that would probably be one of the things you learn to do. There is any number of reasons Innovation could play worse toward the end of the series, perhaps he has worse endurance than soulkey, perhaps he just messed up, people do that, and we've seen so many GSL finals where the underdog wins, in fact maybe even more times the underdog has won than lost.
On June 01 2013 21:25 RKC wrote: Honestly, I don't know why people in the LR thread were so critical about the games, and saying that Innovation threw it. The way I saw it, it was a great series, and eventually Soulkey was the stronger player, throwing Innovation off with his preparations and mind games. So I'll respond to the negativity with what I saw as the positives:
1. Soulkey's drone scout and proxy 2-rax defence
Saw how Soulkey drone scout in the games after dying to a proxy 2-rax in Game 1? Now, that's called learning, and the fact that it paid off in Game 6, showed how disciplined Soulkey was.
And that hatch cancel in Game 6? That was also Soulkey learning.
And why shit on the games? JD early pool rush Flash in one of the finals, winning one, losing one. It may be disappointing how short the games were, but I thought it was brilliantly played by both players. I think at high levels of plays, pro players are so of equal skill that they need to throw cheesy builds at each other. It's all about the mind games. Soulkey won today, fair and square, when it mattered. And I enjoyed the beauty of it; not by what played out in the screen itself, but what played in the players' head. The true beauty lies in the meta-game.
2. Soulkey's drop defence
We saw glimpses of this in Game 2 which he lost, and we saw it repeated in game 7. It completely nullified Innovation's harassment, wasted his precious resources, and allowed Soulkey to tech up and expand safely. Even before the mutas were out, Soulkey had the slight supply advantage, and more importantly, the psychological advantage (of shutting down the hellbat drops that others would just roll over and die too completely). Innovation knew this, and he had to make something happened, hence the medivac drop.
While people scoff this as being foolish, I think it was a fair calculated risk, given Soulkey's lead, and that such a lead on a map like Daybreak would build up exponentially. He moved in when he thought Soulkey's muta was attacking his main. Innovation believed that his drop at Soulkey's main would deal more damage, or at least force the mutas to come back (and by that time, his medivac boost would be ready). But Soulkey saw this coming, and intercepted with his mutas.
'Doom drops' like this happened all the time in games like this. If Innovation had pulled it off, we would all be going ga-ga over it. It was almost like Jangbi 2-base carrier comeback against Fantasy in the 2nd last OSL. His sneak attack at Fantasy's main was a gamble, but he knew it was the only way he could break Fantasy's contain and get back into the game. Pro players make risky moves all the time. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't. If we regard all failed risky moves as silly, then we wouldn't have epic games, pimpest plays, and the game would be much less richer and exciting. Be glad, rather than sad, that Innovation did what he did.
This was exactly how I saw these finals, which I thought were absolutely awesome. In fact, I would even go a step further:
These finals were a CLINIC on how to play Starcraft in a series against a known opponent, and a perfect demonstration of the, almost artful, beauty of mindgames in SC2. I learned more about Starcraft 2 from this series than of any I have ever watched, and I loved watching every minute of it.
Yes, there were many all-ins, but every game was decided by either a perfectly executed agression or a masterful scout and matching defense. They were trading blows in highly intelligent and very focussed punches and perfect blocks, and the level of play was so high that any mistakes almost irrevocably led to losing the match, which is why the games were so short in general.
Yes, I would have loved a few long, drawn-out lategames, but that is frankly not very likely at this level of play. The games werent short because Soulkey Innovation were not playing good enough, but because they were playing too good. All in all a truly great series as it was.
On June 03 2013 05:33 Gynuine wrote: Anyone else get the feeling this series was rigged? Super long break after game three. A bunch of old guys roaming around the player booths during the break. GOM's top personnel predict the winner. English caster's keep trying to sell a "comeback" to the listeners. Game four and five, roach and bane all-ins are so easily defended. And Innovation's control during those games were nothing like that of game three where his hellion and scv control was near perfect. Instead it seemed that he was feeding Soulkey his scvs to extend the series...
Dude you are seeing what you want to see. There are pretty simple explanations to all the points you talk about in your post. Just because something unexpected happens in this world, does not mean it's a conspiracy or rigged. Occams razor man
EPT
Woongjin_Soulkey a chance headed into the finals of Code S. His opponent, 
STX_INnoVation, had racked up a 21 - 3 record against Zerg in HotS, the wins collected mostly against cream of the crop players including RorO, Symbol, and Life. Not even a week before the finals, Innovation had administered a savage beatdown on Soulkey in the Proleague, overwhelming him with the endless waves of marines, medivacs, and widow mines that were the hallmark of his style. With the fans, the experts, and the bookies all calling it in Innovation's favor—one had to think it was more marketing than truth when GomTV's Korean casters gave Soulkey the nod in the finals.![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2013/Korea_1/finals/g1bunker.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2013/Korea_1/finals/g3soulkey.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2013/Korea_1/finals/g6over.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2013/Korea_1/finals/g7momentoffate.jpg)
. Still think these two are the best players going there, might be MVP can beat either?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iXzkzF8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rwiJMgW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.greenpacks.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/reynolds-wrap-aluminum-foil.jpg)
