On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
Yes, content, popularity, numbers, most represented, pro-caster means little to you. Your opinion of whom you like the most is the best indicator, just because, and so said a 3 page TL thread.
BTS has had superior content for a long time and comparable if not better numbers since g-1 "Popularity" of jd is basically restricted to a delusion of grandeur on jd by this point, as Tobi barely has more than the regular streamers for the defense Numbers, bts is 3x that of Jd during the second biggest tournament of the year, did you forget that Tobi also played a secondary role to ld in the biggest tourney of the year? Tobi is a better caster because he castes more than ld is like saying navi is the team of 2012 because they won more iterations of the defense and was able to beat teams like French open qualifiers 1 and 2 at eswc while ig winning the international doesn't count due to "popularity, numbers, most represented"
Yes Tobi casts full time and does a good job, which is perhaps the only factual argument you've made
Tobi and joindota has literally offered nothing new in 2012 aside from casting competently at the same events as 2011 without any improvements in casting, website content, or production aside from talkdota which was reasonably entertaining but seems to have fallen apart
Wait no, they also showed that if you bundle a courier with an event ticket you can make a ton of money no matter how poorly organized and run the event is
On January 19 2013 19:55 Dracolich70 wrote: 1. You gave it as one of the reasons, while you thought Tobi had stagnated. If it has no significance for the reason why LD should be picked over someone such as Tobi, then it has no bearing, and shouldn't be mentioned. 2. Ferrari better than Dendi is an opinion, not a fact. 3. So in essence this is you not liking the casts of the caster that has brought the most casts by far, most watched, and having been invited to two TIs by Valve, on the basis you do not find him competent. 4. Think you proved my point. Kind of funny you would vote for V1lat, but not Tobi, when they are casters in the same vein; entertainers.
1: No, i said that LD had shown a lot more improvements than tobi while tobi hadn't improved at all, as in, LD has surpassed tobi. 2: Lol. Okay, if you really believe that. 3: Nice reading comprehension, and he was invited to TI2 but was denied the finals because of his own incompetence. Also quantity =/= quality. If you think being popular is ANY indicator of something being good, then you are dillusional. Casting more does not give you the rights to be the caster of the year, being the better caster does. 4: Yes but v1lat didn't fuck up the way tobi did, now did he? V1lat remained professional even when accused of doing a lot of shady shit. And he casted the games assigned to him making sure to please valve and viewers. Tobi went ahead and said "fuck it i'm better qualified to decide what games i should cast" leaving games without any english commentary at all. Games that I personally was very interested in seeing, and i'm sure others felt the exact same way, thus the huge outburst about it back then.
And just like others, i'm done here. The gosugamers awards had the community vote na'vi in at every single award they possibly could, popularity =/= quality.
1. So for the most part since 2012, Tobi was ahead, considering LD did his major casts in July in your own opinion. Yet for some reason it was enough to give a solid representation for the whole year. 2. I hope you know this. 3. I am pretty sure you said that Tobi wasn't professional at all, because those were your exact words. Not sure if you want to go down a road calling Valve incompetent as well, when they decided to not only re-invite him, but did so months before TI2 to give his insights and expertise. Being better is only an opinion. It must be based on something concrete. I have given concrete arguments to my opinion. You have just proved - like Teapoted - that this is a personal disliking. 4. So yet again, you prove to me that this is about you disliking Tobi because of what happened in TI2, which is completely unrelated to what he does as a caster. Of course Tobi is the best qualified, when he has done more top casts than anyone, including TI1, as opposed to the other casters present. Yet, he apologized, but it still means nothing to you. I get it, you dislike Tobi for something totally unrelated to his casting.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
Yes, content, popularity, numbers, most represented, pro-caster means little to you. Your opinion of whom you like the most is the best indicator, just because, and so said a 3 page TL thread.
BTS has had superior content for a long time and comparable if not better numbers since g-1 "Popularity" of jd is basically restricted to a delusion of grandeur on jd by this point, as Tobi barely has more than the regular streamers for the defense Numbers, bts is 3x that of Jd during the second biggest tournament of the year, did you forget that Tobi also played a secondary role to ld in the biggest tourney of the year? Tobi is a better caster because he castes more than ld is like saying navi is the team of 2012 because they won more iterations of the defense and was able to beat teams like French open qualifiers 1 and 2 at eswc while ig winning the international doesn't count due to "popularity, numbers, most represented"
Yes Tobi casts full time and does a good job, which is perhaps the only factual argument you've made
Tobi and joindota has literally offered nothing new in 2012 aside from casting competently at the same events as 2011 without any improvements in casting, website content, or production aside from talkdota which was reasonably entertaining but seems to have fallen apart
Wait no, they also showed that if you bundle a courier with an event ticket you can make a ton of money no matter how poorly organized and run the event is
So all this became something along the lines of a production team behind the caster, not the caster.
Of course proving that you are a consistently dominating team throughout the year, means more than doing it for a couple of months out of 12. Still Na'vi proved they are not only top of EU, but also in the world. Same with casting. Tobi has been the dominant force of DotA 2 - the whole year.
I like the fact you abandoned your critique of the level of Masters, when realizing the level of the competition.
Na'Vi and tobi proved that they are good and consistent, among the top in the world, the same way LD and iG proved that they are the best in the world.
I abandoned my critique of the masters because I realized that you were serious when claiming that an online tournament with maybe 2 of the top 8 or so teams in the world for a prize of $1000 dollars is a premier tournament and didn't really want to argue a point that stupid, but ok
With that line of reasoning, I guess GEST The REVENGE, with 3(!) of the top 8 teams in the world and a prize money of 2000(!) and LAN finals(!0 is like twice (or maybe four or eight times) as amazing and high level of a tournament
On January 20 2013 00:01 Kupon3ss wrote: Na'Vi and tobi proved that they are good and consistent, among the top in the world, the same way LD and iG proved that they are the best in the world.
Did LD prove that by casting G-league, which lasted 1/12th of the year.
I abandoned my critique of the masters because I realized that you were serious when claiming that an online tournament with maybe 2 of the top 8 or so teams in the world for a prize of $1000 dollars is a premier tournament and didn't really want to argue a point that stupid, but ok
I am sure you had critique against the level of competitors, "and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota""
So 2 out of 8(your claim) of the best teams in the world+rest is not high level dota?
With that line of reasoning, I guess GEST The REVENGE, with 3(!) of the top 8 teams in the world and a prize money of 2000(!) and LAN finals(!0 is like twice (or maybe four or eight times) as amazing and high level of a tournament
I do not think I would criticize the level of the dota being played, and say they are not top level, if they are among the best. Only an idiot would.
So it is now about prize money. Does this mean that Defence with its 12k prize pool is big, even to you now?
LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
Simply put, LD beat out Tobi as a caster in each of the 3 biggest tournaments of the year
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
And no, I don't think 2 good teams, 2 decent teams, and 4 joke teams played online with USE/EU ping constantly an issue (as was the case of almost all of the JoinDotA masters) was high level DotA, I didn't think the Defense with a big tournament and I thought the joindotA masters was a tiny tournament, I merely pointed out a small tournament that's at least twice as good as an example of what considering something like joindotA masters would lead to
On January 20 2013 00:45 Kupon3ss wrote: LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
But according to you, Tobi did not really cast G-League.
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
Again, you criticized the level of dota. And yes, I linked the wrong one.
And no, I don't think 2 good teams, 2 decent teams, and 4 joke teams played online with USE/EU ping constantly an issue (as was the case of almost all of the JoinDotA masters) was high level DotA, I didn't think the Defense with a big tournament and I thought the joindotA masters was a tiny tournament, I merely pointed out a small tournament that's at least twice as good as an example of what considering something like joindotA masters would lead to
You pointed out they were not high level dota - it has now grown into something else.
The best teams of EU and NA are there, and yet you try to criticize the level of Dota, which suggests you went down a path of a troll.
On January 20 2013 00:45 Kupon3ss wrote: LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
But according to you, Tobi did not really cast G-League.
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
Again, you criticized the level of dota. And yes, I linked the wrong one.
Ok, either Tobi casted G-League and can be considered to have been throughly trounced in casting and presentation, or he didn't cast G-League, in which case he missed out on 2 of the 3 biggest events of the year and wasn't the primary caster in the biggest event of the year. Either way its a record that more or less precludes him from being "caster of the year"
Yes, you've finally linked the right masters, now refer back to my comments on the level of competition, the purely online nature of the tournament, and the tiny prize pool as evidence that you considering it a premier event is as big of a joke as your claims that Tobi is somehow the best caster of 2012
On January 20 2013 00:45 Kupon3ss wrote: LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
But according to you, Tobi did not really cast G-League.
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
Again, you criticized the level of dota. And yes, I linked the wrong one.
Ok, either Tobi casted G-League and can be considered to have been throughly trounced in casting and presentation, or he didn't cast G-League, in which case he missed out on 2 of the 3 biggest events of the year and wasn't the primary caster in the biggest event of the year. Either way its a record that more or less precludes him from being "caster of the year"
Yes, you've finally linked the right masters, now refer back to my comments on the level of competition, the purely online nature of the tournament, and the tiny prize pool as evidence that you considering it a premier event is as big of a joke as your claims that Tobi is somehow the best caster of 2012
As long as you can make up your mind. It was not long ago you said that Tobi did 4 mayor tournaments and LD did 3. Think you were on to something about he bandwagoned onto G-league - amidst all the other tournaments he has casted. I just furthered the point of content, with all Tobi has also casted.
So you are saying that those teams in the link are not high level dota? So aL, Orange, iG, Ehome, and DK are not high level Dota? I never claimed it was a premier event. But I get it, you do not think that all these tournaments matter one bit, which is why your basis is clamped up upon few months.
But I get it. 1½ months outweighs what you do in the final 10½ months in your mind. I also get that bringing top teams to a tournament, is suddenly not top level dota, due to size of prize pool. While in other instances a big prize suddenly doesn't matter.
tobi has cast 3 and a minute part of a fourth of the 5 biggest tournaments of the year and ld 3, along with ti2 finals, so theyre actually quite comparable there
notice how I claimed from the start exactly what Tobi's involvement in G-League was, and using the top 5 was an effort to be diplomatic instead of just looking at the top 3, in which case Tobi gets, as I've noted, throughly trounced. The only thing inconsistent here is your reading comprehension
Did you watch the games of JD masters 7? That one involved an iG and DK who had been playing DotA 2 as a sideshow to DotA for less than a month and looked absolutely terrible, as well as the whole event being affected by inneccessant latency problems that i've noted characterized a large part of what made JD masters something hilariously far away from a premier tournament
1.5 months?
If you meant the 1/3 of the year from TI2 onwards that's contained all of the big events of the year, then yes I think that outweights Tobi's performance in the first 2/3
tobi has cast 3 and a minute part of a fourth of the 5 biggest tournaments of the year and ld 3, along with ti2 finals, so theyre actually quite comparable there
notice how I claimed from the start exactly what Tobi's involvement in G-League was, and using the top 5 was an effort to be diplomatic instead of just looking at the top 3, in which case Tobi gets, as I've noted, throughly trounced. The only thing inconsistent here is your reading comprehension
So you talk about numbers in which Tobi hardly participated. I could do the same for DH summer, where Tobi casted, but LD didn't, while he did DH winter.
Did you watch the games of JD masters 7? That one involved an iG and DK who had been playing DotA 2 as a sideshow to DotA for less than a month and looked absolutely terrible, as well as the whole event being affected by inneccessant latency problems that i've noted characterized a large part of what made JD masters something hilariously far away from a premier tournament
I watched all the masters. I watch pretty much everything. Clocking in 100s of matches with numerous of different casters.
Once again, I never claimed they were premier tournaments, but ranked them up as things Tobi has provided of content. You claimed it was not high level dota. Now it has turned into pings and prize pools and what not, trying to dig your way out of a ridiculous claim, when the best teams of NA, EU, SEA and China were invited. Pings are the premise of online tournaments. And as it is online tournaments are what is done by far for the most part.
If you meant the 1/3 of the year from TI2 onwards that's contained all of the big events of the year, then yes I think that outweights Tobi's performance in the first 2/3
TI2 contained casts of Tobi. And the most memorable ones, I might add. The reasons why Tobi didn't do the GF, is quite muddy, and the only thing I have heard, was he chose what games he wanted to cast after the controversy. Do not know for sure, though. Can't be the popularity of LD, considering how little he had done thus far.
You are talking about tournaments, whose lengths stretch to 1½ months of DotA of the year, while thinking all the rest doesn't matter one bit. One of which Tobi participated. LD did G1-L. Tobi now casts G-league, but it goes to this year. That people stick with LD is great for him. For me it doesn't outweigh all the things Tobi has casted, which is 6 times what LD has. But all that means nothing to you. For you it is that LD clocked in numbers on the two biggest tournaments of the year, while the overall the year Tobi has the numbers, content, and presence in pretty much everything.
Now you believe that clocking in 1/3 of the year, is enough to give you Caster of the year, as opposed to one that provided all year. I just take lament in your superlatives of Tobi in your opening post.
so which games were memorable of JD7? certainly not the ones where DK mucked their way to victory with 4-1 despite basically not knowing how DotA2 works, certainly not the ones where teams like Aeon and Mith and iG showed utter incompetence at the game? Or the weakest of the Chinese teams putting up a good showing because they had played 2 months of DotA 2 instead of 1? Yeah I considered the level of DotA there woefully inept compared to the LAN games of DotA going on in China at the same time
Again, our difference is what we consider to be high level DotA, I don't think that events consistings of medicore western teams occuring with the NA/EU ping gap or teams clearly new to DotA2 playing poorly to be good DotA while you appear to, and even you cannot claim that even the on paper rosters for any of the Masters besides 7 and Special 2? (the only one with Na'Vi in it) was anything to write home about
I'm once again unsure of where you're pulling the bullshit cast times from, maybe the same world where "JD masters" is considered high level DotA, since the literal days of casting LD has done for the 3 biggest tournaments of the year in the international, G-1, and G-league exceeds the amount, not to mention the various small tournaments, including the GEST, which just by itself ran from Sept-Dec
So please, if Tobi has indeed cast for over 24 months this year, then he by all means deserves any possible accolate imaginable for circumventing the laws of time and space, otherwise stop pulling numbers out of your ass and face some facts instead of making utterly fallacious claims like
while the overall the year Tobi has the numbers, content, and presence in pretty much everything.
I strongly believe it is true and yeah it is. Tobi is the reason why we have dota 2 published by valve he is the reason why we have TL covering dota. He accomplished so many things past years way more than any other caster/streamer/organizer can imagine and you guys saying he is a unproffesional childish guy.. it just doesnt make any sense. And if he is such a person so be it as long as he contributes to scene this much he is mostly welcomed to be childish. But one thing is certain he is not unproffesional at all.
U CANT make Dota2 awards for 2012 without having YYF winning in at least 1 category. And if u dont have a category, he fits in, u better make one ASAP!
I mean c'mon, he is, without a doubt, the most outstanding player of 2012!
I may be a fanboy, but even th3e non-fanboys should agree on this one :-)
On January 16 2013 02:49 kellymilkies wrote: YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Lodaaaaaa! Hopefully he will buck up and keep on moving at this speed he is with his team and next year he shall be the BEST CARRY PLAYER of TL Awards not some China farmer!!!! <3
being fked by a white python does not make ur hole white lol
EPT
