Historically, TeamLiquid has done a series of awards for Starcraft 2 and Brood War, commemorating the best players, teams and community members in various categories for their exploits. In 2012, we made an unprecedented leap into a non-Starcraft game and turned our eyes towards Dota 2 coverage and a Dota 2 team of our own. It would only be natural if we ported one of our most popular coverage articles to this new game as well!
Dota 2 has exploded on to the competitive gaming scene with monumental success ever since The International 1 in 2011. 2012 has given us not only the long-awaited sequel to The International, but a slew of community-organized tournaments as well, such as The Defense, the Beyond The Summit World Tour, StarLadder, Dreamhack and many others. 2012 also heralded China's transition from DotA 1 to Dota 2 with explosive results in the scene, bringing back the dominant country in Dota to the limelight again.
Teams shuffled, players joined and quit, and there was much drama to be had. We have the best of the best, and worst of the worst (!) in our TeamLiquid Dota 2 Awards for 2012, so without further ado, here we go!
The rise of the Chinese teams was one of the most anticipated stories of the Dota scene leading up to The International 2. The strength of Chinese carries was legendary, even among the most seasoned of Dota professionals, and by no means did any of the Chinese teams at The International fail to remind the rest of the world of their strength. However, one particular carry stood out. During The International 2, midst the tyranny of Anti-Mage and Morphling, a player named Zhou quietly began the rise of popularity of what is now one of the strongest carries in the game. The first time Zhou chose Luna in the tournament, eyebrows were raised. But he won. And then he won some more, and then he won some more, all on the back of an early-to-mid-game aggressive Tranquil Boots, Drums, Aquila strategy that put pressure on with early pushes, a far cry from the 4-protect-1 farm-focused style that many Chinese carries were known for. Since then, Zhou has shown competency from all sorts of carries ranging from Necrolyte to Alchemist in his games, and he's been even known to pick up non-carry positions for his team with heroes like Enigma in his pocket.
With every strong carry, there must be a strong team to support him. Both iG's Faith and ChuaN have shown up in our voting process for this category, and both of them deserve it. Both of them are well known for all aspects of their support play, whether it be their meticulous multiple pulls and stacks of jungle camps for their carries to farm later (or, for them to farm themselves and guarantee levels) or whether it be extremely early Smokes and aggression into all lanes to provide openings for Ferrari, YYF or Zhou, or whether it be their excellent presence of mind in team fights - clutch Disruptions, brilliant Illuminates, amazing Black Holes and the likes are all in the repertoire of both of these players. Faith, in particular, has shown amazing competency in his craft, with some of the lowest deaths and highest KDA ratios across all of his heroes throughout every tournament he's in. His presence of mind in teamfights and complete knowledge of exactly how far he can push his hero while still remaining safe is testament to how difficult playing a support can actually be at the highest levels.
"Ganker" is a term we used for anyone who seeks to create openings for their team in the early-to-mid-game. In the Chinese-style of team positions, this is very often the 2 or 3 position, although, as evidenced by Puppey's presence, it could also be the 4 or 5 in certain cases. Nevertheless, these players have a penchant for PK and are often found stalking about the map or teleporting into teamfights to slake their thirst for blood instead of farming creeps all day. In that vein, Ferrari_430 is for sure one of the premiere players in this category. He has shown competency with the complete roster of solo mid heroes. He possesses legendary skill with Night Stalker, Invoker and Templar Assassin in particular, but Ferrari truly has no weak heroes in the lane, being able to play everything from Tinker to Brewmaster to Puck to Queen of Pain all to their highest potential. Yet one thing is for certain no matter what hero he picks. He may be a solo mid specialist, but all that means is that he is that much closer to you to close in for the kill, and should you not have your eye on his position for even the slightest second, you could find your life cut down.
With nearly a hundred different heroes that each can fill a number of different roles, the possible strategies that one can come up with in Dota 2 is almost uncountable. Unfortunately, not all of them are viable at the competitive level, but sometimes, teams come up with something very interesting and wow the crowd with their creativity. EG's Knight strategy is not only a brilliant theme, but it also has a clear and powerful gameplan that centers around some of the most powerful heroes in the game. The strategy revolves around extremely fast pushes and strong team fights on the back of four Knights - Omniknight in the solo suicide lane, Chen the Holy Knight in the jungle, Dragon Knight as a solo mid, and Chaos Knight plus his trusty steed Leshrac together in the safe lane. Not only are these mighty soldiers (and one ghost pony) an awesome theme to have for a team, it combines some of the best pushers in Dragon Knight, Leshrac and Chen with an extremely strong early game presence. Omniknight is nearly unkillable in lane and needs little farm to be useful to his team, Dragon Knight is historically an extremely strong solo mid, Chen provides excellent sustainability and auras for his team, and Chaos Knight and Leshrac is a tried and tested 1-2 stun combo that can turn any opportunity into sure kills. It is with pleasure that we give EG's brilliant and thematic cavalry the Most Innovative Strategy for 2012.
In the short course of a year, Dark Seer has gone from almost-never-picked tier to immediate-nerf-by-IceFrog tier, down to first-pick-first-ban tier and now sits comfortably as a common pick and ban. In early 2012, Dark Seer was a hero that was very experimental. His strength as an offlaner was explored a little bit, but he didn't reach his heights of popularity until eventually, people realized that he could put pressure on the lane without even being present. From there, people realized how broken the Aghanim's Scepter on him was, allowing for infinite illusion sieges as you just made allied illusions. This strategy dominated the metagame so quickly that he was instantly relegated to first-ban status in every game until IceFrog struck him down hard with the nerf bat, removing the ability to create allied illusions. But this didn't deter teams who had now found the teamfight and laning versatility of Dark Seer far too strong to give up, and he remained a contested pick all the way up and through The International. Recently, his presence hasn't been felt quite as strongly with balance changes favoring a different playstyle than the one Dark Seer excels in and the addition of Magnus as an alternative to his pick, but he is still an extremely strong hero.
With the players that we just listed for the best players of their respective categories, this award shouldn't go as a surprise to anyone. In early 2012, the whispers of the Chinese teams trying out Dota 2 began to increase in volume. They made their appearance in The International 1, but they were still well and truly focused in DotA 1 at the time because that's where the money was in China. Once The International 2 was announced, it was only a matter of time before China focused their efforts to Dota 2, and they exploded onto the scene showing all of the same dominance that they had in the game's predecessor, and no team exemplifies that dominance as well as The International 2 champions Invictus Gaming. The battle between them and Na`Vi during the semifinals and finals truly showed the resilience of the Chinese teams, but iG did what the other Chinese teams could not - they successfully adapted against the unpredictable Na`Vi and emerged victorious with more solid play. Their consistency, individual skill and adaptability are all top notch, and it is with pleasure that we name iG as Team of the Year.
Sometimes, there's just a player that you can't help but notice. One that's always entertaining and always draws the spotlight to himself regardless of his performance. There is no doubt that that player this year is Na`Vi's Dendi. What makes him so popular? Well, pretty much everything, as it turns out. His playstyle is aggressive and entertaining, and he is often seen making the huge plays for his team, whether it be stealing a huge ultimate as Rubick, landing perfect spell combos as Invoker or playing the nightmare to many teams who face Na`Vi - Pudge, every game with Dendi is sure to entertain. His player skill is through the roof, as he has shown himself to be one of the best of the best solo players in the game, even when the odds are against him. His interviews and interactions with his teammates as highlighted by various highlight videos from Na`Vi and Valve themselves proves that he is about as quirky and unpredictable out of game as he is in game. As one of the mainstays of one of the most stable Western teams out there, I think we can easily say that he won't be going anywhere for quite some time. And I don't think anyone's complaining.
And similarly, the most charismatic team is the team with the most charismatic players. The defending champions of The International 1 and sporting a bunch of strong results going into The International 2, all eyes were on the Na`Vi storyline as they fought against the Chinese resurgence, and boy did they deliver. A weak early start in the group stage segued into an astoundingly strong showing during the bracket stage, cementing them as the Western hope in the tournament. Although they were ultimately defeated by iG in the finals, they were for sure one of the fan favorites of the tournament. Na`Vi as an organization is also known to create many hilarious highlight videos and interviews into the very unique mindsets of their players, winning fans and enemies alike. Yet no matter what, regardless of how seemingly unseriously they may take their jobs at times, Na`Vi's players are consistently among the highest echelon of skill, and their continued strong results only serves to give their players even more time in the limelight where they are most comfortable.
When you are the hard carry of your team, your job is to stay alive and output as much damage as you possibly can. Openings are created for you, and it's up to you to capitalize on those openings. sqL vs. EG game 2 was a classic battle of an early game teamfight/pushing oriented lineup against a late-game hypercarry lineup, and although EG managed to gain significant ground in the early game, it was not nearly enough of an advantage for them to stymie the farm of sqL's carries. It seemed like the game would play out like so many similar games have played out in the past - eventually, sqL would break out of their base and seek to take down EG themselves. And sqL did successfully manage to break out of their base, and Fumoffu began to push. Alone. Into an enemy team with a Storm Spirit that could easily provide the opening for his team. Multiple times. Without buyback ready. With the absence of their main damage dealer for many fights, sqL successfully gave momentum back to EG... until Fear bought a Rapier and lost it in a crucial team fight. For a second, it seemed that sqL had their win handed back to them... but Fumoffu was having none of that. Instead, the stalwart Rubick picked up the Rapier and proceeded to lose it in about half a second, and EG laughed their way all the way to the ancient. This event would give birth to the new name of sqL after their sponsor dropped them - Fumoffu's Throws Fan Club.
A rolling stone gathers no moss, or so they say. From the draft stage, things looked bleak for EHOME, with them opting for the Tiny-Wisp combination (then not nearly as popular as it would soon become) against the stable Morphling pick of Orange. The early and mid game would not be kind to them as well, as they gave up map control and momentum in many places - they would eventually find themselves facing a 14000 gold deficit at only 20 minutes into the game. Yet, strangely, despite this advantage, Orange could not push through the stone bulwark of EHOME's defense. Try as they might, all they succeeded was throwing bodies futilely into EHOME's defense. EHOME was soon able to capitalize on the global presence of Tiny and Wisp. And eventually, Tiny grew and grew, gathering momentum, slowly but surely until he became a mighty wrecking ball, and Orange crumbled under the mighty rock ball.
After a decisive game one in this series, Na`Vi found themselves with their back against the wall against the behemoth of The International, LGD. Undefeated, 19-0 LGD. The momentum seemed like it was completely overwhelming, and that Na`Vi would just be another casualty on LGD's uncontested trip to the finals. But, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Na`Vi fought back brilliantly behind their signature Juggernaut pick along with a strong pushing lineup with Lycanthrope, Enigma, Shadow Shaman and Rubick. Despite giving up kills early and being at an 8-2 deficit at one point, Na`Vi was never deterred from their lineup's strength, and took complete map control by 25 minutes into the game. From there, it was a short reprieve for LGD before Na`Vi decided to finish it decisively. Although the game was relatively one-sided and the kill count was low, the importance of the match is what caused it to shine. Na`Vi handed LGD their first loss of the tournament and toppled the mighty giant like David to Goliath. With LGD's momentum completely stunted by this loss, they would soon lose the series to Na`Vi and fall to the lower bracket, where they would finally be dismantled by their fellow countrymen iG, and Na`Vi proved that odds and momentum mean nothing to them. Each game is just another game.
In Dota, sometimes the timer doesn't even have to reach the 0 minute mark in order for the action to start. During the Dreamhack Winter Finals, upstart team No Tidehunter played the crowd, themselves and the enemy with a brilliant bait at Roshan before the creeps spawned. Shortly after spawning, four of nth` Smoked up and ran straight into the Radiant jungle - a move not often seen, but not completely unheard of. However, fifth member AdmiralBulldog on Furion went into Roshan and suicided himself, drawing the attention of EG. However, when EG arrived at the pit, they saw nothing until the nth` squad stalked them from behind, landing an easy first and second blood thanks to the bait. This brilliant maneuver showcased nth`'s nerves, ingenuity, and complete understanding of their opponent on one of the grandest Dota 2 stages, and will definitely be one to remember.
In late 2011, a relatively unknown TeamLiquid poster by the name of EternalEnvy posted in Dota 2 General his plans to take a leave from school to try his hand at playing Dota 2 professionally. The reactions to the thread were mixed, but overall negative. Skeptics believed that the scene wouldn't grow, or that he wasn't good enough to succeed, or that he should just stick with his education... and EternalEnvy politely declined their concerns and went ahead with it anyway. He disappeared for awhile, but began rising in the community as a skilled player, often showing up in the highest-level pub games. Among players that he would encounter on his rise was a Syllabear specialist named AdmiralBulldog, and together, they would become known as two of the strongest "pub stars" in the Dota 2 scene... until suddenly, out of nowhere, it was announced that both of them would be joining No Tidehunter with EternalEnvy as captain. Reactions were mixed - two pub stars joining some of the most legendary Swedish Dota 2 players in history? But the doubters were quickly silenced, as No Tidehunter scored victory after victory after victory, proving that yes, dreams can and do come true as long as you're willing to put the hard work into it.
Dota 2 may be in its infancy, but the DotA scene has a long and storied history. As Dota 2 gets more popular, players of old find themselves hard pressed to resist the clarion call of competition once again, and with every passing minute, old blood is revitalized and flows back into the scene. One such player who has made resounding success with the scene is nth`'s Loda, once of MYM and SK fame. In late 2011, he announced that he was seeking to make a Swedish team with his old teammate Akke, and in 2012, they were picked up by League of Legends powerhouse Counter Logic Gaming. However, due to intrateam issues, Loda ended up leaving shortly afterwards. Some time passed before he was found halfway across the world, surprising people by joining Singaporean team Zenith and representing them at The International. However, after The International, Loda sought to return home to Sweden. By this time, Counter Logic Gaming had disbanded, and Loda found himself creating a new team with its remnants and a few upstarts. Calling themselves "No Tidehunter," the team exploded onto the scene with resounding success, ending the year with a Dreamhack Winter victory and a place among the giants of Western Dota.
I believe that our beloved Russian commentator v1lat can do this category more justice than I could ever hope to in words. So, here you go. (Be sure to turn on subtitles!)
The first International at GamesCom in 2011 was Valve's first foray into producing an eSports event themselves, and quite frankly, it fell a bit flat. There was a lot of downtime, no storylines, and not even player cameras. Expectations were high going into The International 2, which took place in Valve's own backyard of Bellevue, Washington. This location proved to be instrumental, as Valve was able to invite all the teams to the event a week beforehand to play preliminaries and group stages, eliminating all possibilities of jet lag and rest advantages to both teams. And what emerged was one of the best-produced eSports events of all 2012 across all games. An extremely professionally produced venue complete with soundproof booths in a gigantic theater hall, awesome interviews and commentary from the analysis desk, and the ability to watch the game from a multitude of platforms including in game with Valve's new pennant system all combined together for an amazing viewing experience. The International is the first truly international tournament, inviting teams from every region of the world together to compete, and it still remains the premiere tournament and the goal and dreams of every professional Dota 2 player.
One of the biggest Dota 2 stories of 2012 was the transition of the Southeast Asian and Chinese scenes into the DotA sequel, and with their transition brought the need of casters knowledgeable about the scene and willing to cover the tournaments in the new time zone. With the BeyondTheSummit World Tour before the International, LD, Luminous, GodZ and the other fine folks at BeyondTheSummit stepped up to the plate and took on the position of premiere Asian scene coverage on top of the European tournaments they were already casting at the time, and they did it with aplomb. They were rewarded with trips to The International, where GodZ would handle the analysis desk and LD and Luminous would provide amazing commentary for some of the best games in the tournament. Afterwards, the workload did not decrease in the slightest, as more and more Asian tournaments began to take place. LD in particular rose to astounding fame, casting, well, pretty much every tournament under the sun. With his insight into the scene, sound strategical knowledge and witty humor (knock knock!), it is with pleasure that we give LD the Caster of the Year award, and note that he is the only person to win his nomination unanimously among the staff. But seriously, does this guy cast in his sleep?
4 Knights Strat, Picture of leshrac and not a Knight
Hero of the year is an interesting addition to TLs awards, havnt seen that award in any other award posts.
There are a lot of heroes that could have taken that award, interesting to see that DS got it. Then with morph in second place, cant imagine a hero that had a better fall from grace than morphling
I`m kinda ok with almost every position besides "most charismatic Team runner up: coL"
By now I almost forgot about the fact coL even had a team once. I know they played good during their existence, but thats it. mouz (old and new), EG, fnatic, nth or empire would have been a better pick, since they cause more emotions when hearing their names.
Disagree with faith being the best support, Chuan is quite clearly better than him, it's also very weird to see YYF mentioned only once and very briefly, considering that he was the de facto player of the year. That aside, I concur with pretty much all the other awards.
Not sure if this is deserved but Sing is such a character and somehow so popular amongst the community he probably could have had the most charismatic player (though its debatable as to whether you'd call what he does charisma ).
That small bit from NTH - EG made me wish I watched it live. Also the "anti-play" PGG black holes never disappoint for a good laugh, solid write up as always from TL.
Nice awards. And i agree with pretty much all of it. But to not even mention Tobi, feels a tad odd to me. But yes, LD have done a phenomenal job, and is, without a doubt, deserving of the title. Next time, maybe add "STREAMER OF THE YEAR"? My vote would have went to Merlini, even though he started late.
Why did you put Funn1k as the breakout player of the year? He's been playing professionally since the 2009 (i think), he was playing with Arstyle in 2010 DTS just before they changed the roster and won ESWC. He's been a normal pro player for a long, long time.
Just to let everyone know, these were all decided by a voting process in our Dota 2 staff. Scintillia gave us the categories, and each staff gave their top 3-5 in each category. Then we used the most voted as winners.
On January 16 2013 02:05 EnumaAvalon wrote: PGG had good black holes at TI2 but most of them were "preemptive" ones which got creeps or absolutely NOTHING!
PGG's Black Hole vs TongFu during TI2 was really sick man..
LD is a great caster and deserves all the praises he gets, but not mentioning Tobi is almost bm. His enthusiastic casting style helped the dota-scene sooo much during the early days. remember his dreamhack cast, or TI2, or TI1, or starladder or the countless online events? Shortterm memory can be a bitch.
I know that a lot of people will be a bit disappointed with the organization and the choices for some of the nominations, and we sincerely apologize for that, but really - this is the Internet. Disagreements are inevitable.
All of the winners were chosen by staff vote. I posted the list of categories myself, and I could have really done better with regards to that.
Regarding "best carry/support/ganker" - I tried to trim the number of awards down a bit, and best player for each "1-5" position seemed a bit redundant, especially with a lot of teams not sticking true to the traditional system.
I hope you guys will stick with TeamLiquid's Dota 2 coverage regardless, and we promise that next year's awards will really blow you out of the water. Our coverage team is relatively new and small, and there are a lot of kinks to work out in terms of organization and quality, but we will continue improving for everyone's enjoyment.
If you have any feedback you want to leave for the piece, please leave it here. I'm reading it all, you can be sure of that.
Don't agree with the game of the year. Although watching it live with all the context might have been the most exciting and tense game. It wasn't actually 'the best game'. Most memorable game maybe.
should really have 2 awards for support, and even if u dont i dont understand how a player who plays mostly on 5th position, mostly, gets it, when a player playing on the 4th gets easily much more "attention"
On January 16 2013 02:13 fluidin wrote: This is more of a TI2 and post-TI2 awards, isn't it.
Because much of pre-TI2 wasn't taken into account.
It isn't really a post-TI2 awards, its more of taking 2012 as a whole, in which TI2 obviously was the biggest event, and showed which teams had the most consistency and skill when placed against the best teams in the world.
I'm really glad that TL covered Dota2's Awards! Awesome read and looking forward to 2013! :D
On January 16 2013 01:59 Benj0 wrote: Think 'The Play' should have beaten the Roshan Bait though
On January 16 2013 01:53 LiamTheZerg wrote: Yay not Tobi won caster of the year! Was surprised Na'Vi's turnaround teamfight in the game of the year didnt win best play..
While it was a very exciting play, there were too many aspect of miss-play by IG. Puck orbed into the black hole, they were all clumped up for it, and they (should) know that LoH had a bkb(and xboct kinda), and was going to use it the moment sleep ended.
They basically gave LoH and easy 4 man black hole.
On January 16 2013 02:46 Unleashing wrote: Nice awards, i pretty much agree with all of them Any reason why you didn't do the awards by player positions (1,2,3,4,5) ?
Regardless, amazing job. Thank you.
Scintillia thought it would be redundant, mostly considering that a lot of teams don't even stick to that traditional format anymore.
TL writers: Minor correction, TI2 took place in Seattle, Washington, not Bellevue, Washington.
On January 16 2013 02:13 zul wrote: LD is a great caster and deserves all the praises he gets, but not mentioning Tobi is almost bm. His enthusiastic casting style helped the dota-scene sooo much during the early days. remember his dreamhack cast, or TI2, or TI1, or starladder or the countless online events? Shortterm memory can be a bitch.
Tobi's also had a fair amount of controversy surrounding him due to him refusing to cast Valve-assigned matches pre-TI2 and abandoning The Defense for a couple weeks, leaving the tournaments with no English casts in several games, not to mention him telling Reddit to fuck off after some popular threads calling him and his organization out for their failings. His complete lack of game knowledge when he's been casting so long is also pretty embarassing. Yes, he's more popular/well-known so he gets invited to LAN events like Dreamhack or Starladder, but that only speaks to him having established himself previously; perhaps in way of being worthy of a caster of 2011 award, but not of his 2012 successes. Just having enough enthusiasm to be willing to scream every time someone uses Black Hole is not enough to justify an award this year.
LD, however, has had no controversy surrounding him, shown himself to be much more knowledgeable than Tobi, and has gone out of his way to cast games the English-speaking community would have never seen otherwise, whether it be random Pinoy competitions or the majority of the G-League matches. As far as I'm concerned, he's done a lot more good for the community than Tobi in recent times.
On January 16 2013 02:13 fluidin wrote: This is more of a TI2 and post-TI2 awards, isn't it.
Because much of pre-TI2 wasn't taken into account.
I mean, yeah, that's when TL started their Dota 2 coverage. And stuff that happens late in the year is already weighed very disproportionately naturally in these sorts of things since it's most fresh in our minds.
On January 16 2013 02:46 Unleashing wrote: Nice awards, i pretty much agree with all of them Any reason why you didn't do the awards by player positions (1,2,3,4,5) ?
Regardless, amazing job. Thank you.
A lot of teams don't really abide by the 1-2-3-4-5 position very well with a lot of players doing extra duty on multiple positions.
That, and I was a bit afraid of award bloat - too many awards. Maybe that was the wrong decision.
YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Lodaaaaaa! Hopefully he will buck up and keep on moving at this speed he is with his team and next year he shall be the BEST CARRY PLAYER of TL Awards not some China farmer!!!! <3
On January 16 2013 02:49 kellymilkies wrote: YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Lodaaaaaa! Hopefully he will buck up and keep on moving at this speed he is with his team and next year he shall be the BEST CARRY PLAYER of TL Awards not some China farmer!!!! <3
On January 16 2013 02:46 Unleashing wrote: Nice awards, i pretty much agree with all of them Any reason why you didn't do the awards by player positions (1,2,3,4,5) ?
Regardless, amazing job. Thank you.
Scintillia thought it would be redundant, mostly considering that a lot of teams don't even stick to that traditional format anymore.
Fair enough, i agree with the players there anyway. Definitely the best players in the scene currently.
Again, thanks for this it was a very pleasant read.
On January 16 2013 02:49 kellymilkies wrote: YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Lodaaaaaa! Hopefully he will buck up and keep on moving at this speed he is with his team and next year he shall be the BEST CARRY PLAYER of TL Awards not some China farmer!!!! <3
ironic how the carry of the year won for lvl 8 aggression with tranquil-drum-aquila, while loda spent most of his time farming ancients that EE stacked for him.
Can't believe the biggest play in Dota(2) history isn't the play of the year. That play decided the game in the biggest tournament of the year. The Rosh play was cool, but it was first blood, nothing special. There were soo many amazing plays at TI2 that were way better than that (wolves blocking panda, stealing panda ult to stop BH).
On January 16 2013 02:13 fluidin wrote: This is more of a TI2 and post-TI2 awards, isn't it.
Because much of pre-TI2 wasn't taken into account.
So what do you think it's missing? Before TI2 there was SL, DHS, and a bunch of online events.
What exactly from those tournaments is worthy of an award? You could argue that there are a lot more new-comers that should be considered, but even then the story of Bulldog playing stand-in after pubbing with Na'Vi, or Envy with his post here on TL to winning DH. Those are still bigger stories.
On January 16 2013 02:56 AbusiveElbow wrote: Can't believe the biggest play in Dota(2) history isn't the play of the year. That play decided the game in the biggest tournament of the year. The Rosh play was cool, but it was first blood, nothing special. There were soo many amazing plays at TI2 that were way better than that (wolves blocking panda, stealing panda ult to stop BH).
Umm, please. The play was a well executed team-fight from one team and a poorly executed one from another. There wasn't much more to it.
The Roshan bait was something brand new that could have been done in the entire history of competitive Dota but really never has that I can remember.
On January 16 2013 02:55 iYiYi wrote: Most charismatic team/player? Really? Looks like you went out of your way to give navi some dumb awards.
The rest is good though
How is that going out of their way? Did you miss the whole point where the crowd went wild cheering and chanting na'vi? Or the part where Dendi is the biggest fan-favourite in the scene? They're well justified awards, and seeing that they'll return next year(Possibly) there's a whole year for another team to claim it. To me i could easily see lgd.int take it next year.
On January 16 2013 02:13 fluidin wrote: This is more of a TI2 and post-TI2 awards, isn't it.
Because much of pre-TI2 wasn't taken into account.
So what do you think it's missing? Before TI2 there was SL, DHS, and a bunch of online events.
What exactly from those tournaments is worthy of an award? You could argue that there are a lot more new-comers that should be considered, but even then the story of Bulldog playing stand-in after pubbing with Na'Vi, or Envy with his post here on TL to winning DH. Those are still bigger stories.
The dominance of Na'Vi in early 2012 and Zenith mid 2012 I guess. I mean, yeah sure, most were online tournaments, but considering how they dominated a huge part of 2012 and no credit was given, at all?
You could argue that was before the Chinese peaked into their current form, but then that isn't indicative of the whole year, is it?
And kellymilking is obviously going to be biased, guys. No need to be surprised. I like how tasteless her "China farmer" remark is though.
On January 16 2013 02:13 fluidin wrote: This is more of a TI2 and post-TI2 awards, isn't it.
Because much of pre-TI2 wasn't taken into account.
So what do you think it's missing? Before TI2 there was SL, DHS, and a bunch of online events.
What exactly from those tournaments is worthy of an award? You could argue that there are a lot more new-comers that should be considered, but even then the story of Bulldog playing stand-in after pubbing with Na'Vi, or Envy with his post here on TL to winning DH. Those are still bigger stories.
The dominance of Na'Vi in early 2012 and Zenith mid 2012 I guess. I mean, yeah sure, most were online tournaments, but considering how they dominated a huge part of 2012 and no credit was given, at all?
You could argue that was before the Chinese peaked into their current form, but then that isn't indicative of the whole year, is it?
And kellymilking is obviously going to be biased, guys. No need to be surprised. I like how tasteless her "China farmer" remark is though.
Well Na'Vi doesn't deserve best team because they proved to not be. Zenith did well in online tournaments and did fine in TI2. What more is there to say?
What awards exactly are you expecting them to be getting? Na'Vi got runner up best team, which is what they were.
Faith won over ChuaN? that is just plain wrong sorry, I disagree with other polls as well but the support of the year is ChuaN, that guy is amazing, like from another world ... Faith is just two level under him ...
This was a very nice list. That Roshan bait is so epic! Fun to read and perfect amount of text
Supertotaly agree with navi as most charismatic team! But as runner up i think Liquids team much more than coL, although they only existed for the late part of the year and I'm probably very bias.. But they're a very charismatic team and I hope they continue with they unorthodox playstyle and creative picks so they can contest navi for the 2013 award And contest with iGs for best team hehe Man, this article reminds me of how beastly that team is!
On January 16 2013 03:36 Schlendrian wrote: Tobiwan not even mentioned in the "casters of the year" - section... C'mon guys, this guy totally dedicates his life/health to Dota
But gratz to LD and Draskyl
After the TI2 controversy i don't think he's worthy of caster of the year at all :/ That was incredibly unprofessional of him and a dickish move to the teams.
Let me shed some light onto some of our decisions and hopefully lead to some good discussion
1) no yyf, simply but he's not any of our 3 categories, as unwieldy as 1-5 was it might have been better than way we did it simply did not allow of flamers to shine and I feel it was quite regrettable as he would likely have been my pick for player of the year. Both yyf and Loh, as well as an feel a bit gimped in this regard, as do many 4-5th position players ho had twice the competition
2) faith over chuan, for those who've only seen ti2 and the string of success igs had since this might feel like a strange choice, but faith is indeed at least as good if not better than chuan as a part of ig despite not making as many huge plays. First, he often does the drafts and has a more commanding and teamplay role than chuan, he is also more reliable and consistent, especially when playing from behind. Finally, his existence is part of what allows chuan to shine so much since he's the definition of one protect four and possibly the most dedicated "hard" support in the world given how well the rest of the team sponge up all the farm while still making a huge impact in clashes
3) the play It's an issue of fierce debate but several of the staff members (myself included) see it more as a colossal failure on igs part in preparation and execution and navi simply queuing up the correct and obvious response during 5 seconds and thus either did not see it as a play or saw it as an anti-play, the matter was discussed more or less to death during its thread after ti2 in the general forums as well and the controversy is what it made it absent from the list, since other plays were more universally agreed upon
Got to say he Mouz with singsing had a lot of charisma. Was a huge fanfavourite when they were still active together. (The Black, Bamboe, Sing, 1437, Kuroky/CWM)
awesome read, would've preferred a small part about the runnerups as well (why they were considered/not picked in the end) but this was a good fun to read, thx alot!
I don't get the "charisma" awards. I mean I don't think charisma is not the right word for it. Maybe popular would be more appropriate for what the description paragraph suggests as it goes on about how many people like what about the the player. You can't really measure charisma nor rate it so that award feels a bit weird.
Great work though, no mention of YYF (arguably the best player in iG) is kinda sad but overall, very nicely done.
Great to see LD win caster of the year, definitely my favorite. Good game knowledge, accurate play by play, funny, and works very well with his cocasters.
On January 16 2013 01:32 Burns wrote: 4 Knights Strat, Picture of leshrac and not a Knight.
I lol'd.
Yeah, our graphics person doesn't actually play Dota 2
When scintillia told her we needed a header for 4 knights + Leshrac, I assume she didn't know what the 4 knights were, and probably recognized Leshrac, so used that.
Her graphics are always amazing though, and tbh I like the lesh picture anyways. He is part of the strat as well.
Disagree with a lot of the choices but thats to be expected I suppose. Especially on TL where chinese elite dota is a bit overly favored. Good year recap and graphics though. Maybe next time name the awards after events/players like in bw so its not so serious and add more awards.....
On January 16 2013 05:03 Ack1027 wrote: Disagree with a lot of the choices but thats to be expected I suppose. Especially on TL where chinese elite dota is a bit overly favored. Good year recap and graphics though. Maybe next time name the awards after events/players like in bw so its not so serious and add more awards.....
How is it overly favored when China in heads up play dominates NA/EU? This isn't something that TL made up; When China showed up at ESWC, they literally put their boot on everyone's throat (no this isn't a joke; EHOME was a vastly superior team and was toying with people half the time). The only team/players that have shown the capability of facing up against China are of course, Na'vi, who had the old core of Dendi/LoH when they were playing as DTS. Since EHOME's domination at ESWC, China has dominated the competition in heads up play when it comes to LAN. There is no doubt about it at all. TI1 was mostly due to the lack of preparation by Chinese teams. When they showed up prepared for TI2, we all saw what happened.
On January 16 2013 05:03 Ack1027 wrote: Disagree with a lot of the choices but thats to be expected I suppose. Especially on TL where chinese elite dota is a bit overly favored. Good year recap and graphics though. Maybe next time name the awards after events/players like in bw so its not so serious and add more awards.....
Uhm, why would the chinese players not recieve the most awards when they're the best? Has nothing to do with "TL favouring chinese elite dota" and everything to do with the chinese players being better.
As a lover of Dota2, a thousand thumbs up for the post.
...that said, one thumb down for the characterization of the rise of EternalEnvy / AdmiralBulldog.
For those who remember, AdmiralBulldog frequently ran into Dendi pubbing, and Dendi suggested that he stand-in for Na'Vi in a couple bigger tournaments. *This*, more than anything else, introduced AdmiralBulldog to the world.
Just highlights the attention paid to Na'Vi by the entire Western scene, and it's worth noting.
I agree with most of it, though I think it's really hard to give player awards in DotA since every team is utilizing their roles differently. I don't really like direct comparisons like "Chuan is better than Faith". The one player award I believe to be the most important and easiest to define is the one you didn't give, which is Best Captain.
Most Charismatic was kind of...ehhh...would've liked to see these awards changed to something more humanizing, like the Best Ceremonies award for Starcraft. Biggest Party Animal, Most Entertaining Stream, Best Haircut, anything. I love Dendi but this was too much of a reach.
The Best Caster award seems a really weird choice to me, seems you just picked the solo caster who's been most on the rise lately. I don't know how LD can be considered the best caster if he isn't even better than those he co-casts with. But yes, he's casting a lot, that is true.
It was an interesting read. For some reason, I completely missed that PGG fail black hole O.o Also laughed out loud reliving that Roshan bait, insta-classic really =)
Great article guys, really brought back some memories of 2012. Glad that LD is getting some TL props! But i can't believe Chaun didn't win anything! The guy is a beast!
On January 16 2013 07:49 teapoted wrote: Sven isn't part of the knight strat.
CK, Omni, DK, Chen & Leshrac
As stated above, they switch CK with Sven in one game(at dreamhack)
Edit: You must remember, Sven is the Rogue Knight
with Sven constatly ganking with chen it might be possible, LGD showed that roaming sven kinda works, LGD.int have the gankiing chen, what about a mix?
I'm glad to say the nTh vs EG Roshan bait was my first ever Dota2 game I watched, and what a way to draw me into the game. I didn't even know anything deep about Dota2 yet, but I could still instantly appreciate how insane of a play it was.
Aww shucks, thanks everyone. I never expected people would actually like my casting when I started about a year ago; I just decided to try my hand at it because I thought it would be fun and entertaining for my close friends. If you want a good laugh, check out how awful I was when I first started. I know I still have tons of room for improvement, and I'll be busting my ass this year to get there!
Very nice. I just realised that i've made the full transition from SC2 to Dota2 when I opened the SC2 awards thread but didn't read it but i read every word in this awards thread.
Complete congratulations to LD and the rest of Beyond the Summit, especially for all the work they do for the what I understand to be, little money reward and it can't be easy with a cat calling the shots.
Also the Bait, just brilliant idea by s4 and Eternal Envy and well pulled of by Nth, although I find it hard to that it wasn't tied with that Na'Vi play against iG, for best plays of the year. They were both so well executed with one showing good pinch hitting and reactions and the other displaying the tactical minds of the up and coming Euro team
i still think The Play is the best moment i've ever seen in DOTA2, especially considering the background story of this.
Yes it may have been a fail by iG, but you can't deny its the single most epic moment in DOTA 2 this year. The NTH Roshan bait isn't something new, just that it was used in a major LAN.
I dunno if I'd really call EternalEnvy a "Breakout-player" due to the fact that he was actually quite known in the professional HoN scene before dota 2 was even out.
On January 16 2013 01:42 zul wrote: I`m kinda ok with almost every position besides "most charismatic Team runner up: coL"
By now I almost forgot about the fact coL even had a team once. I know they played good during their existence, but thats it. mouz (old and new), EG, fnatic, nth or empire would have been a better pick, since they cause more emotions when hearing their names.
Could that possibly be because you don't know about the complexity story? a team of basically nobodies coming together being one of if not the most dominant team for at least 3-5 months of the year. Going on an amazing 25-0 win stream when they first hit the scene beating any team in their path. Being the first team to break the stereotype of 'american team disband'.
there is no way the roshan bait is on top of the play. Same with the LGD game, The Play has way more impact than the bait. It's versus iG, a team who was considered the best (before they actually proved they are) and NaVi just beat the hell out of the perfect combo DS Naga from iG. I gotta disagree with that one
On January 16 2013 01:42 zul wrote: I`m kinda ok with almost every position besides "most charismatic Team runner up: coL"
By now I almost forgot about the fact coL even had a team once. I know they played good during their existence, but thats it. mouz (old and new), EG, fnatic, nth or empire would have been a better pick, since they cause more emotions when hearing their names.
Could that possibly be because you don't know about the complexity story? a team of basically nobodies coming together being one of if not the most dominant team for at least 3-5 months of the year. Going on an amazing 25-0 win stream when they first hit the scene beating any team in their path. Being the first team to break the stereotype of 'american team disband'.
I remember FIRE more than coL, coL had little to no identity before TI2. And they were still far from 'charismatic'. Few people knew about the actual players before TI2 at all.
If we're going purely by the definition of charismatic, Mouz(summer line-up) is the only team near Na'Vi. They are the only team that had personalities which rise above the team itself. If coL was shit, no one would care about them. While Sing, Bamboe, Black, CWM, Kuro, they're all memorable.
On January 16 2013 01:42 zul wrote: I`m kinda ok with almost every position besides "most charismatic Team runner up: coL"
By now I almost forgot about the fact coL even had a team once. I know they played good during their existence, but thats it. mouz (old and new), EG, fnatic, nth or empire would have been a better pick, since they cause more emotions when hearing their names.
Could that possibly be because you don't know about the complexity story? a team of basically nobodies coming together being one of if not the most dominant team for at least 3-5 months of the year. Going on an amazing 25-0 win stream when they first hit the scene beating any team in their path. Being the first team to break the stereotype of 'american team disband'.
I remember FIRE more than coL, coL had little to no identity before TI2. And they were still far from 'charismatic'. Few people knew about the actual players before TI2 at all.
If we're going purely by the definition of charismatic, Mouz(summer line-up) is the only team near Na'Vi. They are the only team that had personalities which rise above the team itself. If coL was shit, no one would care about them. While Sing, Bamboe, Black, CWM, Kuro, they're all memorable.
On January 16 2013 09:14 ldDOTA wrote: Aww shucks, thanks everyone. I never expected people would actually like my casting when I started about a year ago; I just decided to try my hand at it because I thought it would be fun and entertaining for my close friends. If you want a good laugh, check out how awful I was when I first started. I know I still have tons of room for improvement, and I'll be busting my ass this year to get there!
You mean you didn't consider what you were already doing busting your ass?
On January 16 2013 01:42 zul wrote: I`m kinda ok with almost every position besides "most charismatic Team runner up: coL"
By now I almost forgot about the fact coL even had a team once. I know they played good during their existence, but thats it. mouz (old and new), EG, fnatic, nth or empire would have been a better pick, since they cause more emotions when hearing their names.
Could that possibly be because you don't know about the complexity story? a team of basically nobodies coming together being one of if not the most dominant team for at least 3-5 months of the year. Going on an amazing 25-0 win stream when they first hit the scene beating any team in their path. Being the first team to break the stereotype of 'american team disband'.
I remember FIRE more than coL, coL had little to no identity before TI2. And they were still far from 'charismatic'. Few people knew about the actual players before TI2 at all.
If we're going purely by the definition of charismatic, Mouz(summer line-up) is the only team near Na'Vi. They are the only team that had personalities which rise above the team itself. If coL was shit, no one would care about them. While Sing, Bamboe, Black, CWM, Kuro, they're all memorable.
What? FIRE is coL.
I know. My point was that when they were new and unsponsored they were interesting and memorable, as coL they were pretty invisible for most of the year. And I say that as someone who thought coL would do better than Na'Vi at TI2. They were good, but charismatic, not at all.
On January 16 2013 09:14 ldDOTA wrote: Aww shucks, thanks everyone. I never expected people would actually like my casting when I started about a year ago; I just decided to try my hand at it because I thought it would be fun and entertaining for my close friends. If you want a good laugh, check out how awful I was when I first started. I know I still have tons of room for improvement, and I'll be busting my ass this year to get there!
You mean you didn't consider what you were already doing busting your ass?
Oh boy.
I think that sums up why LD is in my opinion, the undisputed best caster
dat humility, work ethic and will for self-improvement
Cool to carry this over to DotA, sadly the awards weren't actually that exciting. I kinda agree with some (f.ex nth vs EG), but not with most of them. Awesome to see LD get best caster btw, he's great!
Nice write-up, but I think we should have awards for best at each position. Chuan is an amazing 4 (def best Rubick for q some time). He was an amazing 3 (I would say for windrunner the best 3 for q awhile), and used to be a pretty damn blardy good 1 and 2 too but never better than Yamateh. So anyway, can't compare 4 w 5, cause Faith is just incredible w his heroes w practically no farm...
First of all, awesome coverage. My heart died with BW, but when TL picked up Dota, it sprang to life once more. This game is the epitome of e-sports teamplay (slightly moreso than CS).
Now on to my comments:
1. Chuan should have beaten Faith. It's pretty clear that Faith is the soul of iG, but Chuan is the most awe-inspiring support out there. His ability to make impossible plays has led to iG time and time again to a dominating win, even coming from behind. While Faith is consistent and reliable, he is not the x-factor that Chuan is. I think that Faith is underappreciated, but since we're picking BEST support, you'd have to go with the more skilled player.
2. Burning should have beaten Zhou. Zhou is a terrific, top 3 carry, but he is not nearly the machine Burning is. Burning consistently outfarms every other carry. Whether his team is behind or not, you know that Burning is there last-hitting better than anyone. At the back of your mind, you know that there's a clock ticking, and if you do not defeat DK before that clock strikes, Burning will destroy your team. Moreover, he is a much better positional player than Zhou and Sylar. He's also the most consistent player in DK, which makes that team a threat to anybody despite playing badly. He's also the carry who hesitates the least, committing fully to an attack or not at all, ensuring his safety or domination every time. I dunno - maybe once ZSMJ comes back we can rehash the arguments, but I think Burning has shown that he's the number 1 carry in Dota 2, nevermind the lack of golds. He also has a bigger hero pool than Sylar, just like Zhou.
3. I feel that Mushi, LOH, and YYF especially should be given some love. Maybe most versatile player? Mushi goes 1-3. LOH goes from 1-4, and YYF is in a class of his own, playing whatever hero is needed to change the momentum of the game.
Otherwise, I agree with pretty much everything here. Congratulations once more!
Amazing piece of work. Have to agree with "biggest play", biggest antiplay contender might have been the Dendi blackhole as rubick where he double tabbed his dagger and blicked away from the teamfight.
Like the caster award, personally would have given it to Draskyl but second place is fine ^^ The award for EternalEnvy and AdmiralBulldog is nice, really didn´t catch that thread on TL and EE was completely new for me till No Tidehunters strong showing.
On January 16 2013 21:22 Hondelul wrote: Like the caster award, personally would have given it to Draskyl but second place is fine ^^
The problem with Draskyl is that it seems like he barely watches any matches outside the ones he casts (which isn't many). You very rarely get any type of insight into how teams play, their history. It's very much just generic knowledge from someone who's quite good at the game, which I guess is interesting to some, but not to me. If he was actually casting as much as LD/Tobi then I'm sure this would be different.
I think caster is a really important part of dota2 since they observe and cast at the same time unlike Starcraft 2. And games are more exciting than any other game so the casters should be enthuastic aswell. However i seriously dont agree with TL's decision at all there is only one and only great caster at dota scene who is TOBIWAN his contribution to the dota community the perfect and almost every day casting of his remarkable. LD may be have a good casting lately but no caster is comparible with tobiwan right now his deep knowledge well used voice is just remarkable. He is by far the best English caster right now
Edit: Not like LD is a great caster too. But Tobiwan was the caster of the yeard 2012 he has been the best since dota was actually being casted online
On January 17 2013 00:13 TylerDurdenn wrote: I think caster is a really important part of dota2 since they observe and cast at the same time unlike Starcraft 2. And games are more exciting than any other game so the casters should be enthuastic aswell. However i seriously dont agree with TL's decision at all there is only one and only great caster at dota scene who is TOBIWAN his contribution to the dota community the perfect and almost every day casting of his remarkable. LD may be have a good casting lately but no caster is comparible with tobiwan right now his deep knowledge well used voice is just remarkable. He is by far the best English caster right now
His knowledge certainly is remarkable, you got that right.
On January 17 2013 00:13 TylerDurdenn wrote: I think caster is a really important part of dota2 since they observe and cast at the same time unlike Starcraft 2. And games are more exciting than any other game so the casters should be enthuastic aswell. However i seriously dont agree with TL's decision at all there is only one and only great caster at dota scene who is TOBIWAN his contribution to the dota community the perfect and almost every day casting of his remarkable. LD may be have a good casting lately but no caster is comparible with tobiwan right now his deep knowledge well used voice is just remarkable. He is by far the best English caster right now
His knowledge certainly is remarkable, you got that right.
Tobi has great energy, great voice but he barely know what's going on lol. Rewatch the nth roshan bait with tobi clip:
Furion Dies Tobi: Admiralbulldog giving a freebie. Godz: And here we go! Tobi: .. Hehe Godz: Game is on! Tobi: <still not understanding anything mumbles> Godz: The bait is lain! Tobi: There's a small blood patch where admiralbulldog used to be Godz: <god what do i need to say to get him to understand> ITS A TRAP! Tobi: .. OH!
Yeah he slipped out he couldnt understand the bait. It is tobiwan who gives you the nerd chills at the fight not Godz. I call the guy caster if he can make me excited like that. He casted 10 times more games than any other dota caster it is fine if he makes mistakes it is not huge failure or something. But TL not mentioning him on 2012 Awards it is just so sad. I always tought TL is a site with proffesionality now i think they are doing this to get more attention on dota news section to beat joindota. They shouldnt forget that if joindota hasnt got this scene this big they wouldnt even pick dota 2 as a new game on TL
First of all, chills is fine, you don't need to put nerd in front of it.
You're complaining about professionalism but you're wanting jD to get a mention? Tobi isn't some new caster, he's been around for ages. He got a big boost because he casted TI1. If he didn't jD would have never gotten as popular as it was. We see the same thing with the people who casted TI2. And Tobi doesn't run jD anyway, how do we know what other casters would have done with the opportunity to get a full-time salary and a studio?
We don't, so judge on the quality of the actual casting. If you think that's better that's fine.
To me the biggest difference between BTS (and that extends to LD) and all other orgs is that they listen to feedback and make changes, quickly. They make changes to improve their broadcast or casting without needing people to make a fuzz about it as well. Hell, there was a post on reddit that got upvoted to the top that said all casters pronounce Aegis wrong. 1 changed, and it was LD.
On January 17 2013 00:35 TylerDurdenn wrote: Yeah he slipped out he couldnt understand the bait. It is tobiwan who gives you the nerd chills at the fight not Godz. I call the guy caster if he can make me excited like that. He casted 10 times more games than any other dota caster it is fine if he makes mistakes it is not huge failure or something. But TL not mentioning him on 2012 Awards it is just so sad. I always tought TL is a site with proffesionality now i think they are doing this to get more attention on dota news section to beat joindota. They shouldnt forget that if joindota hasnt got this scene this big they wouldnt even pick dota 2 as a new game on TL
With all the drama involving Tobi and considering how badly BeyondTheSummit and LD beat them at the end of the year in quite literally every aspect of casting/streaming, Tobi is really not in the run vs. LD.
The awards were mostly very nice but I disagree with Faith in best support when AA should have come on top for me and I disagree with the format of the player awards, as I think the 1 per position award gives us more of the bigger picture.
On January 17 2013 00:35 TylerDurdenn wrote: Yeah he slipped out he couldnt understand the bait. It is tobiwan who gives you the nerd chills at the fight not Godz. I call the guy caster if he can make me excited like that. He casted 10 times more games than any other dota caster it is fine if he makes mistakes it is not huge failure or something. But TL not mentioning him on 2012 Awards it is just so sad. I always tought TL is a site with proffesionality now i think they are doing this to get more attention on dota news section to beat joindota. They shouldnt forget that if joindota hasnt got this scene this big they wouldnt even pick dota 2 as a new game on TL
With all the drama involving Tobi and considering how badly BeyondTheSummit and LD beat them at the end of the year in quite literally every aspect of casting/streaming, Tobi is really not in the run vs. LD.
They need atleast a full year to be compared with tobiwan not just *end of the year* will make them good. Tobi was the stable caster for as long as i remember and he is doing a great job with that. I love LD and BTS team aswell but Tobi is something different he is the one made so many people love this game
On January 17 2013 01:22 Lamora wrote: The awards were mostly very nice but I disagree with Faith in best support when AA should have come on top for me and I disagree with the format of the player awards, as I think the 1 per position award gives us more of the bigger picture.
The reason you can't do 1 per position is that a lot of teams are doing it differently. Not all teams have a set 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. They have heroes and think of it differently when choosing who plays what rather than what farming position they have on the team.
On January 17 2013 00:35 TylerDurdenn wrote: Yeah he slipped out he couldnt understand the bait. It is tobiwan who gives you the nerd chills at the fight not Godz. I call the guy caster if he can make me excited like that. He casted 10 times more games than any other dota caster it is fine if he makes mistakes it is not huge failure or something. But TL not mentioning him on 2012 Awards it is just so sad. I always tought TL is a site with proffesionality now i think they are doing this to get more attention on dota news section to beat joindota. They shouldnt forget that if joindota hasnt got this scene this big they wouldnt even pick dota 2 as a new game on TL
With all the drama involving Tobi and considering how badly BeyondTheSummit and LD beat them at the end of the year in quite literally every aspect of casting/streaming, Tobi is really not in the run vs. LD.
They need atleast a full year to be compared with tobiwan not just *end of the year* will make them good. Tobi was the stable caster for as long as i remember and he is doing a great job with that. I love LD and BTS team aswell but Tobi is something different he is the one made so many people love this game
Don't get me wrong, I do like Tobi. He does a lot of good, but I also agree with the fact that I don't think he's in the run for caster of the year based on what has happened throughout the year -- one of them being The International. Also I disagree with you a lot on your perspective on caster's knowledge. I, for one, believe they need to know a lot about the game and not continue to say things that are just out right wrong. This happens too often.
On January 17 2013 01:22 Lamora wrote: The awards were mostly very nice but I disagree with Faith in best support when AA should have come on top for me and I disagree with the format of the player awards, as I think the 1 per position award gives us more of the bigger picture.
The reason you can't do 1 per position is that a lot of teams are doing it differently. Not all teams have a set 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. They have heroes and think of it differently when choosing who plays what rather than what farming position they have on the team.
You do have a good point, but I would still prefer the "1 per position" style. I don't think it's that hard to implement and you would have a full team. Having your own team liquid as example, if I had to nominate a position 1 for TL, I would nominate Korok 100%, because I tink he is the best farm-oriented player of the team while I would nominate Bulba for position 2 because between he, korok and TC, I think he does the better job.
Ganker, support and carry are not enough to describe most players. For instance, Pajkatt plays 1 for LGD.int but nowadays I consider him battle oriented position 1 due to LGD's strategys. He is not a ricer carry, the opposite may be said for burning.
On January 17 2013 00:35 TylerDurdenn wrote: Yeah he slipped out he couldnt understand the bait. It is tobiwan who gives you the nerd chills at the fight not Godz. I call the guy caster if he can make me excited like that. He casted 10 times more games than any other dota caster it is fine if he makes mistakes it is not huge failure or something. But TL not mentioning him on 2012 Awards it is just so sad. I always tought TL is a site with proffesionality now i think they are doing this to get more attention on dota news section to beat joindota. They shouldnt forget that if joindota hasnt got this scene this big they wouldnt even pick dota 2 as a new game on TL
With all the drama involving Tobi and considering how badly BeyondTheSummit and LD beat them at the end of the year in quite literally every aspect of casting/streaming, Tobi is really not in the run vs. LD.
They need atleast a full year to be compared with tobiwan not just *end of the year* will make them good. Tobi was the stable caster for as long as i remember and he is doing a great job with that. I love LD and BTS team aswell but Tobi is something different he is the one made so many people love this game
I totally agree with this post. LD might really be a good caster, no doubt about that. Yet most of the time I´m listening to Tobi, cause it is simply the most fun. And it just happens, thet there is downtime on his stream, thats why I have the time to post here!
On January 17 2013 00:35 TylerDurdenn wrote: Yeah he slipped out he couldnt understand the bait. It is tobiwan who gives you the nerd chills at the fight not Godz. I call the guy caster if he can make me excited like that. He casted 10 times more games than any other dota caster it is fine if he makes mistakes it is not huge failure or something. But TL not mentioning him on 2012 Awards it is just so sad. I always tought TL is a site with proffesionality now i think they are doing this to get more attention on dota news section to beat joindota. They shouldnt forget that if joindota hasnt got this scene this big they wouldnt even pick dota 2 as a new game on TL
With all the drama involving Tobi and considering how badly BeyondTheSummit and LD beat them at the end of the year in quite literally every aspect of casting/streaming, Tobi is really not in the run vs. LD.
They need atleast a full year to be compared with tobiwan not just *end of the year* will make them good. Tobi was the stable caster for as long as i remember and he is doing a great job with that. I love LD and BTS team aswell but Tobi is something different he is the one made so many people love this game
Sorry but the TI2 controversy showed how unprofessional tobi is, a person that'd do something like that does not deserve caster of the year award at all.
Not to mention that tobis ingame knowlede has not increased since the start of the year while LD has shown loads of improvement and has surpassed tobi in this regard by now. + Show Spoiler +
Like synderen explaining tobi 4 times in one game that ancients were magic immune
Thanks for this, I really enjoyed the read. So much epic shit that I missed in 2012 - That black hole made me lol pretty hard. And hoping 2013 will be even better!
I remember watching the Dream Hack Finals live on twitch. When NTH laid the bait! Man I still get mad nerd chills when I watch that video. That tournament was also the start of a new age in strategy for DOTA 2 and the outing of Sven. That tournament changed captains mode entirely and showcased the "patch" in all it's glory.
On January 17 2013 17:15 YoucriedWolf wrote: What did tobi do in TI2? I cant remember anything I think he missed his flight but I guess thats not it :a
Valve asked him to cast a game(MUFC vs TongFu, I think), and Tobi instead decided to cast a game he thought would be more interesting which already had a caster, leaving the other match uncasted.
On January 17 2013 17:15 YoucriedWolf wrote: What did tobi do in TI2? I cant remember anything I think he missed his flight but I guess thats not it :a
Valve asked him to cast a game(MUFC vs TongFu, I think), and Tobi instead decided to cast a game he thought would be more interesting which already had a caster, leaving the other match uncasted.
And then went on trying to defend his decision saying that he knows better what games are good and basically ignoring the point of allocating games. Really just coming off as a completely self-centered asshole.
I would have picked iG vs LGD when it was a Syllabear vs Morphling match, with epic fights throughout the entire game, and a massive comeback by iG. Yes there were some mistakes by Sylar in the match (such as not buying a full 10 sec bkb when he had the gold) but overall it was extremely high quality, and one of the best matches of the year in terms of overall execution and entertainment.
LD definitely deserves caster of the year and Draskyll is very good aswell. Tobiwan talks alot of nonsense imo, he lacks DotA knowledge and like others have said doesn't seem to improve at all.
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
Yup Zhou the best Carry of the year for sure. ZSMJ and Burning were there for the previous years but 2012 defo belongs to Zhou. Congrats!!!
Feel like Chuan deserves the support champion but he is already C-God so i guess we can have Faith this time.
LD totally deserves that. I dont quite like his casting (he is still the best western caster for me) but his passion and actively inviting interesting cocaster to cast with him is very admirable. Well done LD!!
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
Casting games while sick just demonstrates jD's incompetence. If people want to really believe they're doing so much for the scene how can they have the biggest channel for over a year and still only support one caster?
No one is questioning Tobi's dedication but dedication doesn't make you any more intelligent or good at your job. It doesn't make you more receptive to the community.
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
It's been explained a few times already.
Doesn't make it more educated.
Casting games while sick just demonstrates jD's incompetence. If people want to really believe they're doing so much for the scene how can they have the biggest channel for over a year and still only support one caster?
No one is questioning Tobi's dedication but dedication doesn't make you any more intelligent or good at your job. It doesn't make you more receptive to the community.
The question was whether or not he was professional, not jD. If it was a popularity contest, Tobi would definitively win too. That a vocal minority for some odd reason find it prober to show their disliking, is the typical rebel without a cause-behaviour, for someone popular.
That Tobi is not given the prize, can only be a personal insult. He has paved the way for so many other casters, and has casted more than twice the second in line with more viewers than anyone.
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
Nice strawman, i did not say anything about that the one that improved the most has to win. And he might've been pissed, doesn't make it any less unprofessional what he did. It proved that he did not know his place. He was assigned games, he should follow the assigned games. He left games without english coverage and pretty much told the teams "Sorry, your games aren't going to be important for the outcome of the group stages" which is offensive to a minimum of one of the teams.
And sorry but no, it's the OPPOSITE of professional to not take a break when you need it, it's not professional to cast while being sick, at all. And sorry but i didn't listen to tobi because in most games it was nothing short of annoying, it was only when he had synderen with him that it was watcheable for me.
Yes tobi has been the one to cast the most game, which is due to how few casters there was earlier this year for dota2, this has gone up by now and there is a reason as to why the jD streams are getting fewer and fewer viewers compared to other streams with the very same game.
What tobi did at TI2 was unspectful to valve, the viewers and the teams.
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
It's been explained a few times already.
Doesn't make it more educated.
Casting games while sick just demonstrates jD's incompetence. If people want to really believe they're doing so much for the scene how can they have the biggest channel for over a year and still only support one caster?
No one is questioning Tobi's dedication but dedication doesn't make you any more intelligent or good at your job. It doesn't make you more receptive to the community.
The question was whether or not he was professional, not jD. If it was a popularity contest, Tobi would definitively win too. That a vocal minority for some odd reason find it prober to show their disliking, is the typical rebel without a cause-behaviour, for someone popular.
That Tobi is not given the prize, can only be a personal insult. He has paved the way for so many other casters, and has casted more than twice the second in line with more viewers than anyone.
Are you saying Tobi is not competent at his job?
It has nothing to do with "rebel without a cause-behaviour" and nothing to do with him being more popular. Dendi is most likely the more popular player too compared to ferrari, doesn't really mean anything in regards to quality. Because ferrari is the overall better player.
And yes, i do not think tobi is competent at casting on his own at all. Without a good professional player to fill the massive black hole(No pun intended) that is tobi's lack of game knowledge i find it a pain to watch tobi cast.
If not LD i would've given the prize to v1lat or draskyll.
Dracolich, just throwing in there some food for thought, you are defending that he is professional while leaving games uncovered when he had a clear assignment is obviously unprofessional.
Btw not liking tobi has nothing to do with being rebel, you are just throwing something random and hoping everyone agrees with you. I don't like Tobi because and don't think his tone brings excitement, he casts games in the same fashion for quite some time, using the same tricks over and over(BLACKHOOOOOOLLLEEE for every blackhole to mention one). The production linked to jD is also not evolving, which makes his casting worst because he is the one using jD's production.
You do have a point that he is a good caster otherwise he wouldn't have a very solid fanbase but please, think a bit more before saying that if you dislike Tobi's casting, you are a rebel.
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
It's been explained a few times already.
Doesn't make it more educated.
Casting games while sick just demonstrates jD's incompetence. If people want to really believe they're doing so much for the scene how can they have the biggest channel for over a year and still only support one caster?
No one is questioning Tobi's dedication but dedication doesn't make you any more intelligent or good at your job. It doesn't make you more receptive to the community.
The question was whether or not he was professional, not jD. If it was a popularity contest, Tobi would definitively win too. That a vocal minority for some odd reason find it prober to show their disliking, is the typical rebel without a cause-behaviour, for someone popular.
That Tobi is not given the prize, can only be a personal insult. He has paved the way for so many other casters, and has casted more than twice the second in line with more viewers than anyone.
Are you saying Tobi is not competent at his job?
The vocal minority dislike Tobi because he's popular? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390397 You can read through those picks and see for yourself, and I'm sure I could dig up reddit threads with 95% of people saying they prefer LD. And the GosuGamers awards 'also' gave it to LD. That's a pretty large minority, and if you think they're all children who think they're being 'rebels' then I'd suggest you go back to joinDota where the adults hang out.
And the non-vocal majority I suppose are the people who voted for Na'Vi to win everything in the gosugamers awards, so they're not really worth listening to because they have no understanding of the game and just latch on to celebrities.
i find tobis casting absolutely capivating and riveting when doing something else. his excitment is amazing, his articulation and mannerisms amazing, his casting is descriptive and consistently paints a vivid picture
its only when you combine listening to his stellar casting with watching an apparently completely different game missing half the action and important shifts in that it becomes a problem
admittedly its the only real way i can keep up with the defense without leaving a headshaped dent in my desk
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
It's been explained a few times already.
Doesn't make it more educated.
Yes, china has proven to have the better players.
Nice strawman, i did not say anything about that the one that improved the most has to win. And he might've been pissed, doesn't make it any less unprofessional what he did. It proved that he did not know his place. He was assigned games, he should follow the assigned games. He left games without english coverage and pretty much told the teams "Sorry, your games aren't going to be important for the outcome of the group stages" which is offensive to a minimum of one of the teams.
And sorry but no, it's the OPPOSITE of professional to not take a break when you need it, it's not professional to cast while being sick, at all. And sorry but i didn't listen to tobi because in most games it was nothing short of annoying, it was only when he had synderen with him that it was watcheable for me.
Yes tobi has been the one to cast the most game, which is due to how few casters there was earlier this year for dota2, this has gone up by now and there is a reason as to why the jD streams are getting fewer and fewer viewers compared to other streams with the very same game.
What tobi did at TI2 was unspectful to valve, the viewers and the teams.
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
It's been explained a few times already.
Doesn't make it more educated.
Casting games while sick just demonstrates jD's incompetence. If people want to really believe they're doing so much for the scene how can they have the biggest channel for over a year and still only support one caster?
No one is questioning Tobi's dedication but dedication doesn't make you any more intelligent or good at your job. It doesn't make you more receptive to the community.
The question was whether or not he was professional, not jD. If it was a popularity contest, Tobi would definitively win too. That a vocal minority for some odd reason find it prober to show their disliking, is the typical rebel without a cause-behaviour, for someone popular.
That Tobi is not given the prize, can only be a personal insult. He has paved the way for so many other casters, and has casted more than twice the second in line with more viewers than anyone.
Are you saying Tobi is not competent at his job?
It has nothing to do with "rebel without a cause-behaviour" and nothing to do with him being more popular. Dendi is most likely the more popular player too compared to ferrari, doesn't really mean anything in regards to quality. Because ferrari is the overall better player.
And yes, i do not think tobi is competent at casting on his own at all. Without a good professional player to fill the massive black hole(No pun intended) that is tobi's lack of game knowledge i find it a pain to watch tobi cast.
If not LD i would've given the prize to v1lat or draskyll.
1. You gave it as one of the reasons, while you thought Tobi had stagnated. If it has no significance for the reason why LD should be picked over someone such as Tobi, then it has no bearing, and shouldn't be mentioned. 2. Ferrari better than Dendi is an opinion, not a fact. 3. So in essence this is you not liking the casts of the caster that has brought the most casts by far, most watched, and having been invited to two TIs by Valve, on the basis you do not find him competent. 4. Think you proved my point. Kind of funny you would vote for V1lat, but not Tobi, when they are casters in the same vein; entertainers.
On January 18 2013 08:22 Dracolich70 wrote: A bit China-centric.
And how can Tobi not win? For LD?
Well of course it's china-centric when they have proven to be the better players.
Have they?
And how tobi didn't win? As has already been pointed out it's a combination of LD improving loads, becoming a great caster while tobi hasn't really improven at all and the whole TI2 controversy and so on. He hasn't proven to be professional as a caster at all.
So one that has improved more must win? Tobi has been the backbone of the growth of Dota all year.
TI2 controversy, hehe. Of course Tobi was pissed. He has the knowledge of what games turns out good, and had done the most for the growth of DotA, including casting TI1.
Tobi not professional? He has casted when very sick. Has casted more games/tournaments than anyone. Always gives 100%, to the point where it is no longer healthy. Since this nomination is so TI2-centric, just listen to the casts of Tobi in those, and compare it with the others. Tobi makes those games even more memorable.
It's been explained a few times already.
Doesn't make it more educated.
Casting games while sick just demonstrates jD's incompetence. If people want to really believe they're doing so much for the scene how can they have the biggest channel for over a year and still only support one caster?
No one is questioning Tobi's dedication but dedication doesn't make you any more intelligent or good at your job. It doesn't make you more receptive to the community.
The question was whether or not he was professional, not jD. If it was a popularity contest, Tobi would definitively win too. That a vocal minority for some odd reason find it prober to show their disliking, is the typical rebel without a cause-behaviour, for someone popular.
That Tobi is not given the prize, can only be a personal insult. He has paved the way for so many other casters, and has casted more than twice the second in line with more viewers than anyone.
Are you saying Tobi is not competent at his job?
The vocal minority dislike Tobi because he's popular? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390397 You can read through those picks and see for yourself, and I'm sure I could dig up reddit threads with 95% of people saying they prefer LD. And the GosuGamers awards 'also' gave it to LD. That's a pretty large minority, and if you think they're all children who think they're being 'rebels' then I'd suggest you go back to joinDota where the adults hang out.
And the non-vocal majority I suppose are the people who voted for Na'Vi to win everything in the gosugamers awards, so they're not really worth listening to because they have no understanding of the game and just latch on to celebrities.
Yes, the vocal minority. The majority watches Tobis casts, which the numbers clearly show. Think you too proved my point.
PS Kind of funny you would say I should go back to jD, when I registered here a year before on jD, and over a year before you, while you registered to jD before TL.
Dracolich, just throwing in there some food for thought, you are defending that he is professional while leaving games uncovered when he had a clear assignment is obviously unprofessional.
Btw not liking tobi has nothing to do with being rebel, you are just throwing something random and hoping everyone agrees with you. I don't like Tobi because and don't think his tone brings excitement, he casts games in the same fashion for quite some time, using the same tricks over and over(BLACKHOOOOOOLLLEEE for every blackhole to mention one). The production linked to jD is also not evolving, which makes his casting worst because he is the one using jD's production.
You do have a point that he is a good caster otherwise he wouldn't have a very solid fanbase but please, think a bit more before saying that if you dislike Tobi's casting, you are a rebel.
Tobi is all about excitement. I have proven the professionalism of Tobi. You bring up an incident of which Tobi has apologized, whether or not he agreed with it. Which is also professional.
I agree on jD, but that means very little in relation to Tobi, who has brought so much content for the community and helped with the growth of DotA. In a year, where Tobi pretty much was the driving force of DotA from January to December, providing casts for the 4 biggest tournaments, it is a mockery giving it to someone who has done so little in comparison.
Personally I like Draskyl the most, but I would be an idiot pointing to him as caster of the year.
tobi has cast 3 and a minute part of a fourth of the 5 biggest tournaments of the year and ld 3, along with ti2 finals, so theyre actually quite comparable there
id say the overall contribution is around the same
On January 19 2013 20:32 Kupon3ss wrote: tobi has cast 3 and a minute part of a fourth of the 5 biggest tournaments of the year and ld 3, along with ti2 finals, so theyre actually quite comparable there
id say the overall contribution is around the same
Tobi has cast pretty much every tournament there is, including those tournaments created by jD themselves - from January to December. He provides high level tournament Dota pretty much every day.
Defence Masters ESWC G-League TI Starladder DreamHack.
Tobi is far and beyond LD in terms of contribution.
g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA. If there is a joke somewhere, I believe it is on you.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
Yes, content, popularity, numbers, most represented, pro-caster means little to you. Your opinion of whom you like the most is the best indicator, just because, and so said a 3 page TL thread, which of course is by no means a vocal minority of the tens of thousands that watch Tobi on a daily basis.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
I know the point, but the point isn't especially convincing.
You keep on saying paved the way, but 'paving the way' by 'being popular' isn't especially impressive. People should never get an award just for being popular.
And you can't on one side say it's irrelevant he's a full-time caster, and then say he's the biggest driving force of the growth of DotA. Because without jD he wouldn't be. jD doesn't just allow him to cast as much as he does, it basically forces him to.
Yes, content, popularity, numbers, most represented, pro-caster means little to you. Your opinion of whom you like the most is the best indicator, just because, and so said a 3 page TL thread, which of course is by no means a vocal minority of the tens of thousands that watch Tobi on a daily basis.
Along with best everything: 'Every member of Na'Vi'. The 'silent majority' doesn't know anything about Dota and only care about celebrity, this is TL, so the opinions of those who post on TL is more relevant.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
I know the point, but the point isn't especially convincing.
Yet you asked for it. Now you know it, yet you find it unconvincingly, as opposed to your no-points.
You keep on saying paved the way, but just 'paving the way' by 'being popular' isn't especially impressive. People should never get an award just for being popular.
Popular is often an indicator of doing something right, except to a vocal minority, which is always born from rebels without a cause. I think you tried to make a point saying that LD was more popular by linking a 3 page thread from TL, and saying that 95% Redditors thinks LD is the best.
And you can't on one side say it's irrelevant he's a full-time caster, and then say he's the biggest driving force of the growth of DotA. Because without jD he wouldn't be. jD doesn't just allow him to cast as much as he does, it basically forces him to.
Reading must be hard. I never said it was irrelevant he was a full-time caster, just that it didn't help you in any context. Him being "forced" to(I am sure he wants to, since he is very passionate about casting to the point where he suffered physically) to cast many games, does also little to help you in any context, on the contrary.
Along with best everything: 'Every member of Na'Vi'. The 'silent majority' doesn't know anything about Dota and only care about celebrity, this is TL, so the opinions of those who post on TL is more relevant.
Yet you talk about Reddit, and Gosugamers.
Not sure of your point here: "Community Poll Winner: TobiWan Community Poll Runner up: LD". Yet a minority chose LD as a winner, and Tobi not even considered runner-up.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
I know the point, but the point isn't especially convincing.
Yet you asked for it. Now you know it, yet you find it unconvincingly, as opposed to your no-points.
You keep on saying paved the way, but just 'paving the way' by 'being popular' isn't especially impressive. People should never get an award just for being popular.
Popular is often an indicator of doing something right, except to a vocal minority.
And you can't on one side say it's irrelevant he's a full-time caster, and then say he's the biggest driving force of the growth of DotA. Because without jD he wouldn't be. jD doesn't just allow him to cast as much as he does, it basically forces him to.
Reading must be hard. I never said it was irrelevant he was a full-time caster, just that it didn't help you in any context. Him being "forced" to(I am sure he wants to, since he is very passionate about casting to the point where he suffered physically) to cast many games, does also little to help you in any context, on the contrary.
You're just being obnoxious now. If you say 'little to help you in any context', it means it's irrelevant to my argument.
And popularity is not a sign of quality, it's quite separate in all industries. I only made the point a lot of people would vote for LD because you seemed to believe everyone outside of these 'rebels' would vote for Tobi.
Anyway I'm done with this stupid argument, if you can argue about Sayuri for so long (knew I recognized the name somewhere) I don't want to know how long this could last for. You've made your point, people get it. People disagree, they think the actual quality of cast from another is superior and they weigh the multiple negatives and lowpoints of people against them. They're not being petulant children who just 'want to be different' by not saying they prefer the most popular person. If you believe there's some gross injustice being done then I'm sure you're more than welcome to make your own awards or write an article about it.
On January 19 2013 19:55 Dracolich70 wrote: 1. You gave it as one of the reasons, while you thought Tobi had stagnated. If it has no significance for the reason why LD should be picked over someone such as Tobi, then it has no bearing, and shouldn't be mentioned. 2. Ferrari better than Dendi is an opinion, not a fact. 3. So in essence this is you not liking the casts of the caster that has brought the most casts by far, most watched, and having been invited to two TIs by Valve, on the basis you do not find him competent. 4. Think you proved my point. Kind of funny you would vote for V1lat, but not Tobi, when they are casters in the same vein; entertainers.
1: No, i said that LD had shown a lot more improvements than tobi while tobi hadn't improved at all, as in, LD has surpassed tobi. 2: Lol. Okay, if you really believe that. 3: Nice reading comprehension, and he was invited to TI2 but was denied the finals because of his own incompetence. Also quantity =/= quality. If you think being popular is ANY indicator of something being good, then you are dillusional. Casting more does not give you the rights to be the caster of the year, being the better caster does. 4: Yes but v1lat didn't fuck up the way tobi did, now did he? V1lat remained professional even when accused of doing a lot of shady shit. And he casted the games assigned to him making sure to please valve and viewers. Tobi went ahead and said "fuck it i'm better qualified to decide what games i should cast" leaving games without any english commentary at all. Games that I personally was very interested in seeing, and i'm sure others felt the exact same way, thus the huge outburst about it back then.
And just like others, i'm done here. The gosugamers awards had the community vote na'vi in at every single award they possibly could, popularity =/= quality.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
I know the point, but the point isn't especially convincing.
Yet you asked for it. Now you know it, yet you find it unconvincingly, as opposed to your no-points.
You keep on saying paved the way, but just 'paving the way' by 'being popular' isn't especially impressive. People should never get an award just for being popular.
Popular is often an indicator of doing something right, except to a vocal minority.
And you can't on one side say it's irrelevant he's a full-time caster, and then say he's the biggest driving force of the growth of DotA. Because without jD he wouldn't be. jD doesn't just allow him to cast as much as he does, it basically forces him to.
Reading must be hard. I never said it was irrelevant he was a full-time caster, just that it didn't help you in any context. Him being "forced" to(I am sure he wants to, since he is very passionate about casting to the point where he suffered physically) to cast many games, does also little to help you in any context, on the contrary.
You're just being obnoxious now. If you say 'little to help you in any context', it means it's irrelevant to my argument.
It means that it actually causes your "arguments" to be weaker. The only obnoxious is you. You present a poor case, obstruct it with things that makes your case weaker, and mine stronger.
And popularity is not a sign of quality, it's quite separate in all industries. I only made the point a lot of people would vote for LD because you seemed to believe everyone outside of these 'rebels' would vote for Tobi.
Which I have so far proved to be true. Popularity is a sign that the most people think you are doing great. I have established that Tobi also provide more content by far. I have established that the high numbers equals pleased fan base. I have established that Tobi has done much more for the growth of DotA, than any other with his high number of content for the community. You on the other hand have done nothing but obstruct your own case with absolutely nothing going in a unison direction.
You have established that you think LD is higher quality, while thinking popularity means nothing, and bringing content for twice as long as LD. Tobi is not professional while being a full-time caster. Tobi is not receptive to the fan-base, while keeping the numbers up.
Anyway I'm done with this stupid argument, if you can argue about Sayuri for so long (knew I recognized the name somewhere) I don't want to know how long this could last for. You've made your point, people get it. People disagree, they think the actual quality of cast from another is superior and they weigh the multiple negatives and lowpoints of people against them. They're not being petulant children who just 'want to be different' by not saying they prefer the most popular person. If you believe there's some gross injustice being done then I'm sure you're more than welcome to make your own awards or write an article about it.
If the vast majority tune into Tobi, then it must be a vast minority that thinks he is incompetent.
I do not mind you are leaving the debate. You decided to contest my post, and I defended my views. You on the other hand, were just all over the place, proving any points I had against you, and your content.
I know you know you are losing ground here, considering you felt the need to bring something up - totally unrelated to the topic - yet again.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
Yes, content, popularity, numbers, most represented, pro-caster means little to you. Your opinion of whom you like the most is the best indicator, just because, and so said a 3 page TL thread.
BTS has had superior content for a long time and comparable if not better numbers since g-1 "Popularity" of jd is basically restricted to a delusion of grandeur on jd by this point, as Tobi barely has more than the regular streamers for the defense Numbers, bts is 3x that of Jd during the second biggest tournament of the year, did you forget that Tobi also played a secondary role to ld in the biggest tourney of the year? Tobi is a better caster because he castes more than ld is like saying navi is the team of 2012 because they won more iterations of the defense and was able to beat teams like French open qualifiers 1 and 2 at eswc while ig winning the international doesn't count due to "popularity, numbers, most represented"
Yes Tobi casts full time and does a good job, which is perhaps the only factual argument you've made
Tobi and joindota has literally offered nothing new in 2012 aside from casting competently at the same events as 2011 without any improvements in casting, website content, or production aside from talkdota which was reasonably entertaining but seems to have fallen apart
Wait no, they also showed that if you bundle a courier with an event ticket you can make a ton of money no matter how poorly organized and run the event is
On January 19 2013 19:55 Dracolich70 wrote: 1. You gave it as one of the reasons, while you thought Tobi had stagnated. If it has no significance for the reason why LD should be picked over someone such as Tobi, then it has no bearing, and shouldn't be mentioned. 2. Ferrari better than Dendi is an opinion, not a fact. 3. So in essence this is you not liking the casts of the caster that has brought the most casts by far, most watched, and having been invited to two TIs by Valve, on the basis you do not find him competent. 4. Think you proved my point. Kind of funny you would vote for V1lat, but not Tobi, when they are casters in the same vein; entertainers.
1: No, i said that LD had shown a lot more improvements than tobi while tobi hadn't improved at all, as in, LD has surpassed tobi. 2: Lol. Okay, if you really believe that. 3: Nice reading comprehension, and he was invited to TI2 but was denied the finals because of his own incompetence. Also quantity =/= quality. If you think being popular is ANY indicator of something being good, then you are dillusional. Casting more does not give you the rights to be the caster of the year, being the better caster does. 4: Yes but v1lat didn't fuck up the way tobi did, now did he? V1lat remained professional even when accused of doing a lot of shady shit. And he casted the games assigned to him making sure to please valve and viewers. Tobi went ahead and said "fuck it i'm better qualified to decide what games i should cast" leaving games without any english commentary at all. Games that I personally was very interested in seeing, and i'm sure others felt the exact same way, thus the huge outburst about it back then.
And just like others, i'm done here. The gosugamers awards had the community vote na'vi in at every single award they possibly could, popularity =/= quality.
1. So for the most part since 2012, Tobi was ahead, considering LD did his major casts in July in your own opinion. Yet for some reason it was enough to give a solid representation for the whole year. 2. I hope you know this. 3. I am pretty sure you said that Tobi wasn't professional at all, because those were your exact words. Not sure if you want to go down a road calling Valve incompetent as well, when they decided to not only re-invite him, but did so months before TI2 to give his insights and expertise. Being better is only an opinion. It must be based on something concrete. I have given concrete arguments to my opinion. You have just proved - like Teapoted - that this is a personal disliking. 4. So yet again, you prove to me that this is about you disliking Tobi because of what happened in TI2, which is completely unrelated to what he does as a caster. Of course Tobi is the best qualified, when he has done more top casts than anyone, including TI1, as opposed to the other casters present. Yet, he apologized, but it still means nothing to you. I get it, you dislike Tobi for something totally unrelated to his casting.
On January 19 2013 21:05 Kupon3ss wrote: g-1 and tobi casted like 1/4 of g-league, hopping on the bandwagon when he realized he was missing out on the second biggest tournament of the year only to be beaten by far superior castibg and production
and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota"
unless your criteria for high level dota is anything tobi casts
I assume that inviting the best teams of NA and EU is considered high level tournament dota. And Masters including the best teams of China and SEA.
LD started with his high level casts in July. Tobi did it all year. LD has about 200 tournament videos. Tobi has over a 1000.
I don't know the point in talking about who casts the most. Obviously Tobi does because he's a full-time salaried caster who needs to keep viewers on the channel to keep the business afloat. So if they were giving out the 'who casts the most games' award, I'm sure he'll be highly considered, but they're not.
You should know the point by now; contribution to the growth of DotA. As said, Tobi paved the way for casters such as LD, which the timeline clearly indicates. Tobi is by far the most important figure being the driving force of the growth of DotA - all year.
Him being full-time salaried caster, does little to help you in any context.
Yes, content, popularity, numbers, most represented, pro-caster means little to you. Your opinion of whom you like the most is the best indicator, just because, and so said a 3 page TL thread.
BTS has had superior content for a long time and comparable if not better numbers since g-1 "Popularity" of jd is basically restricted to a delusion of grandeur on jd by this point, as Tobi barely has more than the regular streamers for the defense Numbers, bts is 3x that of Jd during the second biggest tournament of the year, did you forget that Tobi also played a secondary role to ld in the biggest tourney of the year? Tobi is a better caster because he castes more than ld is like saying navi is the team of 2012 because they won more iterations of the defense and was able to beat teams like French open qualifiers 1 and 2 at eswc while ig winning the international doesn't count due to "popularity, numbers, most represented"
Yes Tobi casts full time and does a good job, which is perhaps the only factual argument you've made
Tobi and joindota has literally offered nothing new in 2012 aside from casting competently at the same events as 2011 without any improvements in casting, website content, or production aside from talkdota which was reasonably entertaining but seems to have fallen apart
Wait no, they also showed that if you bundle a courier with an event ticket you can make a ton of money no matter how poorly organized and run the event is
So all this became something along the lines of a production team behind the caster, not the caster.
Of course proving that you are a consistently dominating team throughout the year, means more than doing it for a couple of months out of 12. Still Na'vi proved they are not only top of EU, but also in the world. Same with casting. Tobi has been the dominant force of DotA 2 - the whole year.
I like the fact you abandoned your critique of the level of Masters, when realizing the level of the competition.
Na'Vi and tobi proved that they are good and consistent, among the top in the world, the same way LD and iG proved that they are the best in the world.
I abandoned my critique of the masters because I realized that you were serious when claiming that an online tournament with maybe 2 of the top 8 or so teams in the world for a prize of $1000 dollars is a premier tournament and didn't really want to argue a point that stupid, but ok
With that line of reasoning, I guess GEST The REVENGE, with 3(!) of the top 8 teams in the world and a prize money of 2000(!) and LAN finals(!0 is like twice (or maybe four or eight times) as amazing and high level of a tournament
On January 20 2013 00:01 Kupon3ss wrote: Na'Vi and tobi proved that they are good and consistent, among the top in the world, the same way LD and iG proved that they are the best in the world.
Did LD prove that by casting G-league, which lasted 1/12th of the year.
I abandoned my critique of the masters because I realized that you were serious when claiming that an online tournament with maybe 2 of the top 8 or so teams in the world for a prize of $1000 dollars is a premier tournament and didn't really want to argue a point that stupid, but ok
I am sure you had critique against the level of competitors, "and i hope youre joking if you consider the defense, eswc, and masters "high level dota""
So 2 out of 8(your claim) of the best teams in the world+rest is not high level dota?
With that line of reasoning, I guess GEST The REVENGE, with 3(!) of the top 8 teams in the world and a prize money of 2000(!) and LAN finals(!0 is like twice (or maybe four or eight times) as amazing and high level of a tournament
I do not think I would criticize the level of the dota being played, and say they are not top level, if they are among the best. Only an idiot would.
So it is now about prize money. Does this mean that Defence with its 12k prize pool is big, even to you now?
LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
Simply put, LD beat out Tobi as a caster in each of the 3 biggest tournaments of the year
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
And no, I don't think 2 good teams, 2 decent teams, and 4 joke teams played online with USE/EU ping constantly an issue (as was the case of almost all of the JoinDotA masters) was high level DotA, I didn't think the Defense with a big tournament and I thought the joindotA masters was a tiny tournament, I merely pointed out a small tournament that's at least twice as good as an example of what considering something like joindotA masters would lead to
On January 20 2013 00:45 Kupon3ss wrote: LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
But according to you, Tobi did not really cast G-League.
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
Again, you criticized the level of dota. And yes, I linked the wrong one.
And no, I don't think 2 good teams, 2 decent teams, and 4 joke teams played online with USE/EU ping constantly an issue (as was the case of almost all of the JoinDotA masters) was high level DotA, I didn't think the Defense with a big tournament and I thought the joindotA masters was a tiny tournament, I merely pointed out a small tournament that's at least twice as good as an example of what considering something like joindotA masters would lead to
You pointed out they were not high level dota - it has now grown into something else.
The best teams of EU and NA are there, and yet you try to criticize the level of Dota, which suggests you went down a path of a troll.
On January 20 2013 00:45 Kupon3ss wrote: LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
But according to you, Tobi did not really cast G-League.
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
Again, you criticized the level of dota. And yes, I linked the wrong one.
Ok, either Tobi casted G-League and can be considered to have been throughly trounced in casting and presentation, or he didn't cast G-League, in which case he missed out on 2 of the 3 biggest events of the year and wasn't the primary caster in the biggest event of the year. Either way its a record that more or less precludes him from being "caster of the year"
Yes, you've finally linked the right masters, now refer back to my comments on the level of competition, the purely online nature of the tournament, and the tiny prize pool as evidence that you considering it a premier event is as big of a joke as your claims that Tobi is somehow the best caster of 2012
On January 20 2013 00:45 Kupon3ss wrote: LD proved that by casting the Finals of the International over Tobi, which is akin to iG beating Na'Vi at the International, as well as his fantastic job covering the G-1 League, the 3rd biggest tournment of the year, and handily beating Tobi at G-League, the second biggest tournament of the year
But according to you, Tobi did not really cast G-League.
Please read the "Organzier" and "Sponsor" entries for Gigabyte Masters and I felt that the small prizepool and lack of LAN finals made it not worth including as part of premier events
Since you refered to the masters with respect to Tobi I assumed u were talking about the JoinDotA masters instead of an event produced by BeyondtheSummit, my mistake in thinking you knowledgable enough about which organization did what
Again, you criticized the level of dota. And yes, I linked the wrong one.
Ok, either Tobi casted G-League and can be considered to have been throughly trounced in casting and presentation, or he didn't cast G-League, in which case he missed out on 2 of the 3 biggest events of the year and wasn't the primary caster in the biggest event of the year. Either way its a record that more or less precludes him from being "caster of the year"
Yes, you've finally linked the right masters, now refer back to my comments on the level of competition, the purely online nature of the tournament, and the tiny prize pool as evidence that you considering it a premier event is as big of a joke as your claims that Tobi is somehow the best caster of 2012
As long as you can make up your mind. It was not long ago you said that Tobi did 4 mayor tournaments and LD did 3. Think you were on to something about he bandwagoned onto G-league - amidst all the other tournaments he has casted. I just furthered the point of content, with all Tobi has also casted.
So you are saying that those teams in the link are not high level dota? So aL, Orange, iG, Ehome, and DK are not high level Dota? I never claimed it was a premier event. But I get it, you do not think that all these tournaments matter one bit, which is why your basis is clamped up upon few months.
But I get it. 1½ months outweighs what you do in the final 10½ months in your mind. I also get that bringing top teams to a tournament, is suddenly not top level dota, due to size of prize pool. While in other instances a big prize suddenly doesn't matter.
tobi has cast 3 and a minute part of a fourth of the 5 biggest tournaments of the year and ld 3, along with ti2 finals, so theyre actually quite comparable there
notice how I claimed from the start exactly what Tobi's involvement in G-League was, and using the top 5 was an effort to be diplomatic instead of just looking at the top 3, in which case Tobi gets, as I've noted, throughly trounced. The only thing inconsistent here is your reading comprehension
Did you watch the games of JD masters 7? That one involved an iG and DK who had been playing DotA 2 as a sideshow to DotA for less than a month and looked absolutely terrible, as well as the whole event being affected by inneccessant latency problems that i've noted characterized a large part of what made JD masters something hilariously far away from a premier tournament
1.5 months?
If you meant the 1/3 of the year from TI2 onwards that's contained all of the big events of the year, then yes I think that outweights Tobi's performance in the first 2/3
tobi has cast 3 and a minute part of a fourth of the 5 biggest tournaments of the year and ld 3, along with ti2 finals, so theyre actually quite comparable there
notice how I claimed from the start exactly what Tobi's involvement in G-League was, and using the top 5 was an effort to be diplomatic instead of just looking at the top 3, in which case Tobi gets, as I've noted, throughly trounced. The only thing inconsistent here is your reading comprehension
So you talk about numbers in which Tobi hardly participated. I could do the same for DH summer, where Tobi casted, but LD didn't, while he did DH winter.
Did you watch the games of JD masters 7? That one involved an iG and DK who had been playing DotA 2 as a sideshow to DotA for less than a month and looked absolutely terrible, as well as the whole event being affected by inneccessant latency problems that i've noted characterized a large part of what made JD masters something hilariously far away from a premier tournament
I watched all the masters. I watch pretty much everything. Clocking in 100s of matches with numerous of different casters.
Once again, I never claimed they were premier tournaments, but ranked them up as things Tobi has provided of content. You claimed it was not high level dota. Now it has turned into pings and prize pools and what not, trying to dig your way out of a ridiculous claim, when the best teams of NA, EU, SEA and China were invited. Pings are the premise of online tournaments. And as it is online tournaments are what is done by far for the most part.
If you meant the 1/3 of the year from TI2 onwards that's contained all of the big events of the year, then yes I think that outweights Tobi's performance in the first 2/3
TI2 contained casts of Tobi. And the most memorable ones, I might add. The reasons why Tobi didn't do the GF, is quite muddy, and the only thing I have heard, was he chose what games he wanted to cast after the controversy. Do not know for sure, though. Can't be the popularity of LD, considering how little he had done thus far.
You are talking about tournaments, whose lengths stretch to 1½ months of DotA of the year, while thinking all the rest doesn't matter one bit. One of which Tobi participated. LD did G1-L. Tobi now casts G-league, but it goes to this year. That people stick with LD is great for him. For me it doesn't outweigh all the things Tobi has casted, which is 6 times what LD has. But all that means nothing to you. For you it is that LD clocked in numbers on the two biggest tournaments of the year, while the overall the year Tobi has the numbers, content, and presence in pretty much everything.
Now you believe that clocking in 1/3 of the year, is enough to give you Caster of the year, as opposed to one that provided all year. I just take lament in your superlatives of Tobi in your opening post.
so which games were memorable of JD7? certainly not the ones where DK mucked their way to victory with 4-1 despite basically not knowing how DotA2 works, certainly not the ones where teams like Aeon and Mith and iG showed utter incompetence at the game? Or the weakest of the Chinese teams putting up a good showing because they had played 2 months of DotA 2 instead of 1? Yeah I considered the level of DotA there woefully inept compared to the LAN games of DotA going on in China at the same time
Again, our difference is what we consider to be high level DotA, I don't think that events consistings of medicore western teams occuring with the NA/EU ping gap or teams clearly new to DotA2 playing poorly to be good DotA while you appear to, and even you cannot claim that even the on paper rosters for any of the Masters besides 7 and Special 2? (the only one with Na'Vi in it) was anything to write home about
I'm once again unsure of where you're pulling the bullshit cast times from, maybe the same world where "JD masters" is considered high level DotA, since the literal days of casting LD has done for the 3 biggest tournaments of the year in the international, G-1, and G-league exceeds the amount, not to mention the various small tournaments, including the GEST, which just by itself ran from Sept-Dec
So please, if Tobi has indeed cast for over 24 months this year, then he by all means deserves any possible accolate imaginable for circumventing the laws of time and space, otherwise stop pulling numbers out of your ass and face some facts instead of making utterly fallacious claims like
while the overall the year Tobi has the numbers, content, and presence in pretty much everything.
I strongly believe it is true and yeah it is. Tobi is the reason why we have dota 2 published by valve he is the reason why we have TL covering dota. He accomplished so many things past years way more than any other caster/streamer/organizer can imagine and you guys saying he is a unproffesional childish guy.. it just doesnt make any sense. And if he is such a person so be it as long as he contributes to scene this much he is mostly welcomed to be childish. But one thing is certain he is not unproffesional at all.
U CANT make Dota2 awards for 2012 without having YYF winning in at least 1 category. And if u dont have a category, he fits in, u better make one ASAP!
I mean c'mon, he is, without a doubt, the most outstanding player of 2012!
I may be a fanboy, but even th3e non-fanboys should agree on this one :-)
On January 16 2013 02:49 kellymilkies wrote: YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Lodaaaaaa! Hopefully he will buck up and keep on moving at this speed he is with his team and next year he shall be the BEST CARRY PLAYER of TL Awards not some China farmer!!!! <3
being fked by a white python does not make ur hole white lol
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/shiroiusagi/dota/2012awards/01_bestcarry.png)
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Man, this article reminds me of how beastly that team is! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hPX9x.jpg)
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