• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:43
CEST 14:43
KST 21:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon111
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Recent Patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Where can I find Flash replays that work? a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8219 users

Maps in the Balance - Page 14

Forum Index > News
280 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 Next All
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
November 17 2011 09:40 GMT
#261
Man Fighting Spirit is so boss, Destination should be up there as well. It seems like, even more so than the players, experienced people from Brood War who can 'sense' maps should go to work and produce. I wonder why has there not been more maps without space behind the main like on FS. Those really macro intensive maps like Arcadia and Andromeda have also not appeared in SC2 yet.
On a side note, why the hell is there still not a widespread and/or ladder 3 player map?
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-17 15:31:00
November 17 2011 15:28 GMT
#262
On November 15 2011 07:14 Dexington wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 07:04 acgFork wrote:
Why is Jungle Basin ugly?!?!?!


Almost 70% TvZ o.O

It wasn't 90%?


Man Fighting Spirit is so boss, Destination should be up there as well. It seems like, even more so than the players, experienced people from Brood War who can 'sense' maps should go to work and produce. I wonder why has there not been more maps without space behind the main like on FS. Those really macro intensive maps like Arcadia and Andromeda have also not appeared in SC2 yet.
On a side note, why the hell is there still not a widespread and/or ladder 3 player map?

Destination is awesome, and I think that macro-intensive maps will need some more time to get here.
To answer why there are no 3 player maps in the ladder pool, blizzard generally makes 3 player maps like this:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Elysium
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
Bombadil819
Profile Joined November 2011
United States45 Posts
November 17 2011 15:43 GMT
#263
On November 17 2011 18:40 Talic_Zealot wrote:
On a side note, why the hell is there still not a widespread and/or ladder 3 player map?


Presumably because ladder doesn't support 1v1v1 and it would have to be a custom game anyway?
Amoment
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany175 Posts
November 17 2011 21:34 GMT
#264
didnt read, but its so true...
6000 MMR/competitive Dota 2 player. SC2 LOTV Grandmaster - WoL Top 75 EU, 150 World. YouTuber.
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
November 18 2011 02:04 GMT
#265
I think that the invention of gold minerals has played a huge role in the Terran dominance that has occurred so far, as holding a gold base gives Terran a much larger advantage than any other race. I would go so far as to say that all of the tournament results up to now have been skewed by the very existence of gold minerals. Removing gold minerals from the GSL maps was one of the most significant changes that has been made to a tournament so far, and is a prime example of how a tournament can affect balance between the races in SC2.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
Ciraxis
Profile Joined June 2010
Australia400 Posts
November 18 2011 11:00 GMT
#266
Thank you for this article. The importance of maps is huge in the role of balance.
Sharkas
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany19 Posts
November 18 2011 13:30 GMT
#267
We just need to invent a new version of "Destionation" and everything will be fine :-D
aiuradun
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark115 Posts
November 18 2011 13:52 GMT
#268
I still think its easier to use the numbers from sc:bw as reliable numbers, due to the game dident change to much at that point and the meta game being more reliable.

There have been huge ballance changes and meta game changes in sc2 there fore i don't really think you can use the stats on the maps for anything really, like would the %win/loss be the same On Stepts of war / Jungel basin as they where at that point when these 2 maps where active, i doubt it.

How ever the generel point in maps not being tested by the pros before hand just more or less getting thrown in is kind of a bah solution, i don't mind blizzard adding new maps, i do however mind blizzard adding 4 random maps that are relatively untested and just hrowing them onto the ladder, i would rather have blizzard taking 1 new map they have really pollished and thought alot about and thorw it into the ladder pool, and than take a none blizzard map and change it just a bit if anything is not as they would like it to be (ie diffrent textured xel'naga towers etc.) so taht would be a max of 2 new maps each season and than cycle through some of the great maps and remove some of the older.

Than blizzard can make a more or less complete overhaul at HOTS if they want to introduce alot of new maps / features on the maps etc.

thats my 2 cents :-)

Have a nice MLG Weekend :-)
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
November 18 2011 15:29 GMT
#269
Rocks also affect balance as well.

I remember that the creator of tal'adrim had a fuss with blizzard because blizzard wanted to have exactly 9 patches rather than 7 as well as having rocks at 3rd.
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Prinny-tai
Profile Joined November 2010
United States71 Posts
November 18 2011 17:18 GMT
#270
Gold Minerals need to go away, it was cute but a failed idea in the game of MULEs.
The Khala is a religion of peace
angiepolska
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium13 Posts
November 18 2011 18:30 GMT
#271
Great post, you've articulated the map problem we have in SC2 very well.

Let's hope this gets spotlighted.
Sickest baneling bang ever
Tryxtira
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden572 Posts
November 18 2011 18:44 GMT
#272
Let me say that this post really deserved getting highlighted. Amazing read!
utyske
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark185 Posts
November 18 2011 21:55 GMT
#273
Jungle Basin, oh man, I forgot how much I hated that map.
He's not the fastest zergling in the control group - Day9
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
November 18 2011 23:44 GMT
#274
Nice article :D
Let's hope blizz will start using gls maps.
Chicken gank op
SDnNs
Profile Joined May 2011
United States24 Posts
November 19 2011 06:19 GMT
#275
some of the gsl maps aren't balanced, bel shir beach was strong for zerg, but its interesting to see how the maps affect so much. it might require a lot of data mining, but i would be interested to see how the balance changed after some of the more significant patch changes, like infestor range cut or the most recent change when toss got a much needed upgrade buff, kinda hard in the late game when u gotta choose between expand or shield upgrade...
nite nite sucka!!!
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-20 03:25:26
November 20 2011 03:25 GMT
#276
lol I would have put Incineration Zone in the ugly spot of the OP. Worst fucking map

Would have liked to have seen shakuras iteration difference in racial balance.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
BrosephBrostar
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States445 Posts
November 20 2011 04:20 GMT
#277
When GSL players lose in non-GSL tournaments to what extent do you think it's fair to use maps as an excuse? Conversely do you think the GSL map pool is one of the reasons non-Korean players under-perform in Code A? With the November season changes the GSL map pool is basically completely different from the pools used by other tournaments. I wonder how much GSL players actually practice on maps like Shattered Temple or non-gold Antiga Shipyard.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-20 14:11:16
November 20 2011 14:10 GMT
#278
--- Nuked ---
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
November 20 2011 19:14 GMT
#279
On November 15 2011 10:25 coolcor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 10:07 Vasoline73 wrote:
To me a big part of the reason SC2's map scene isn't as interesting is because of SC2's high ground mechanics. Ramps and cliffs for the most part are decoration after the early game.


Would it be horribly inappropriate to do something like use the editor to put broodwar high ground mechanics back in for a map? Or have specially marked areas that give any other bonus or disadvantage you can think of when firing into or out of it?

I'd love if this were done for tournament maps, it would make games so much more interesting. Personally I wouldn't like the exact high ground mechanics that BW used (50% chance of ranged attacks missing from low to high), because that brings chance into play. A simple damage reduction (75% damage from low to high maybe, nothing too excessive) would be better.
vibeo gane,
arterian
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1157 Posts
November 20 2011 23:18 GMT
#280
Taldarim is a bad map imo. Forces 4 gate in PvP and FFE in PvZ. Not to mention the natural cliffs and how stupid colossi and tanks can be on there.
http://www.twitch.tv/arterian
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
2026 Week 25
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko359
ProTech137
Rex 96
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46482
Hyuk 1488
Jaedong 862
Soma 464
Horang2 376
EffOrt 374
BeSt 357
actioN 356
Soulkey 349
Mini 346
[ Show more ]
Last 279
Zeus 266
Light 256
Stork 223
Larva 178
910 173
Snow 133
ggaemo 120
Rush 120
ZerO 106
Pusan 83
Mind 60
Killer 57
Shine 45
JYJ 40
Sharp 39
Creator 39
hero 36
Free 29
Shinee 26
Yoon 25
Bale 24
ToSsGirL 18
HiyA 16
Noble 14
sorry 13
Terrorterran 13
yabsab 11
Sacsri 8
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7989
Dendi769
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1556
markeloff119
kRYSTAL_46
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor1574
crisheroes919
Other Games
gofns41373
singsing1988
B2W.Neo698
XBOCT331
hiko320
DeMusliM290
Pyrionflax275
byalli253
ArmadaUGS84
Mew2King60
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1448
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream143
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH323
• StrangeGG 42
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1481
Other Games
• WagamamaTV173
Upcoming Events
Stellar Fest
17m
Rex96
The PondCast
21h 17m
OSC
1d
Stellar Fest
1d
OSC
1d 11h
Stellar Fest
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Online Event
2 days
FEL
3 days
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
INu's Battles
5 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.