EPTMaps in the Balance - Page 13
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Syntac
Canada39 Posts
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Holytornados
United States1022 Posts
Awesome map =D haha. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
And from reading the last page, many people in the SC2 community are still unable to see the forest beyond their partisan allegiances to the race they play. The community may still be too new and immature in general for this type of mapmaking to prosper. It's not just the balance. It's also to keep the gameplay fresh and to make strategies change often. | ||
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Fatze
Germany1342 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
My thoughts on some map ideas + Show Spoiler + Ones with slightly wider chokes so walling off is harder but not to the point that Zerg is instantly favored. Players should have to worry a little bit more about Zerg early aggression than they have been post beta. At least that is my two cents. As it stands right now, Terran and Protoss can easily do early aggression versus Zerg, but it is much harder for Zerg to do the same because of P and T ability to wall off easily. Making ramps one building wider makes walling off a bigger investment and potentially easier to mess up, without making it ridiculously easy for a zergling rush into a base. I am not a big fan of Xel Naga watchtowers, but they seem to be a necessary evil because of wall offs. Destructible rocks were a pretty terrible idea. I do tend to agree about how high ground is not what it used to be. An interesting idea would be to have a few small but open maps. I'm not entirely sure how that would play out balance wise because Steppes and Xel naga are the closest maps to this idea, but they both have features that take away from the openness via the small ramp size. | ||
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Spec
Taiwan931 Posts
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Nymbul
United Kingdom127 Posts
On November 15 2011 23:47 sVnteen wrote: this thread (as the title says) is about the balance of a map and (obviously) a map cant be imbalanced in a mirror match so what are you trying to say? nice thread its quite interesting that JB was even worse for z than sow lol The map may be balanced statistics wise but calling the map "good" just didn't sit right with me at all. A map isn't good where only one strategy is viable in any match-up. I'm just putting things into perspective instead of "The figures are fine so the map is fine" mentality I agree with an earlier statement. All maps in the pool should have 52-48 win percentages in favour of a certain race in order to allow strategic decision making. On November 16 2011 02:42 NEOtheONE wrote: This is a really great article. I also really enjoyed the link to the Artosis blog on this issue by one of the responders. We need some new and balanced maps. My thoughts on some map ideas [spoiler]Ones with slightly wider chokes so walling off is harder I don't like the idea of wider chokes, it smells too much of 6pool all-ins On November 16 2011 01:59 Holytornados wrote: Anyone else remember Blistering Sands? Awesome map =D haha. Those were dark times. Dark backdoor rocks times | ||
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Parnass
Germany145 Posts
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Pertinacious
United States82 Posts
On November 15 2011 07:23 TheKefka wrote: To further elaborate on map/skill level,I present you a masterpiece of grandmaster Artosis: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=70545 Wow, I had no idea that iNcontroL used to be so... enraged. | ||
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Brett
Australia3823 Posts
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SoulSever
Canada779 Posts
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Trope
United States40 Posts
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On November 15 2011 11:17 p4NDemik wrote: That blog by Artosis is quite funny. At the time the only games that were in TLPD were the televised games. A large portion of data was missing because preliminaries, and other sources of large numbers of pro-games were not in the database. So at the time, the data was a bit skewed and probably unreliable. So to that extent, he is right, you have to determine the quality of the data you have, and whether it can be used to represent balance at the highest level of play. But as time went on and the sample size grew as more non-televised games were included the numbers would seem to disagree with Artosis' point. If you look at Nostalgia's stats now, TvZ sits at 57% in favor of Terran. It wasn't just the top-tier legends propping up Nostalgia's TvZ stats, even lower-level pros who played Terran found success on that map. So Artosis was complaining that it was in fact not balanced because Terran wasn't winning enough, when they actually were winning at what is a pretty high rate on that map. One that would actually agree with his definition of balance ironically enough. Honestly I'd be less inclined to prescribe to Artosis' more than likely biased account in that blog and listen to what the numbers say. Statistics are very useful. If you don't understand the requirements necessary to make assertions, people can use them to be very misleading. They aren't everything, but they sure as hell aren't worthless when you have quality data. Not to mention Artosis point goes in the complete opposite direction of what TheKefka is saying. No one can seriously argue that TvZ wasn't terran favoured in the early days of SC2 when SoW was still played. The many nerfs to terran and buffs to zerg that has come since further shows that. So if zerg managed to 46.7% of the time when zergs were generally struggling against terran that should make the map at least balanced and possibly zerg favoured right? At least according to that blog by Artosis it should. And TheKefka is claiming the exact opposite, yet citing the blog as backup for his claim. :s | ||
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Puppet_M
Finland12 Posts
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Nymbul
United Kingdom127 Posts
On November 16 2011 09:19 Pertinacious wrote: Definitely some food for thought. I think most spectators would love to see some new maps make their way into tournaments. Perhaps large players like MLG and IGN could agree on 1-2 maps to inject into their tournaments, and then gradually add a few more maps each season. Wow, I had no idea that iNcontroL used to be so... enraged. I'm trying to imagine him being that mad and I find it hard. | ||
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On November 16 2011 21:56 Nymbul wrote: I'm trying to imagine him being that mad and I find it hard. If you guys would just turn to the next few pages of the thread you would see that iNcontroL confesses that he was joking. Real or not, but that's what he said. We should take his word I guess  Because if that was for real, I'd be really worried as to how he sleeps at night. | ||
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prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
On November 16 2011 22:40 Noocta wrote: I don't understand why there's two metalopolis with differents stats ? With and without close positions (1.1 has them blocked) | ||
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