EPTIEM Global Challenge Cologne - "Dead Presidents" - Page 12
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Please try to keep the discussion civil. And while I can't ask everyone to write a huge essay like tree.hugger, try to write out your opinions in a substantive, well-thought way. | ||
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Cr3scent
43 Posts
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Qaatar
1409 Posts
On September 09 2011 03:01 Olinim wrote: Don't you have to eventually wonder why 1 year after release MC dwarfs other protoss players in terms of accomplishments and is the ONLY protoss to have success in korea? Not saying MC is flash but don't you think he probably would have done even better as T?(the race that has dominated the majority of the game) Or he might not even be as successful as he is now, since T requires a different mindset and playstyle. The point is, it's impossible to speculate, but just from a neutral and objective point of view, I fail to see exactly where MC's advantage in mechanics, decision-making, and multitasking are, compared to his other top level peers playing other races. Then again, that might have much to do with the P race itself, limiting possibilities, but that brings us again to the original point: speculation like this is stupid, impossible, and ridiculous to begin with. | ||
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pcL.Nomad
United States24 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 09 2011 03:05 Roxy wrote: That is an excellent idea! At least it is an excellent idea at first glance.. it may be something akin to the reaper speed being moved to factory requirement. I hate it when they remove stuff from the game, balancing the timing of it seems much more appropriate It used to be at the fusion core. I think it's a very viable balance change (back to the fusion core), but make it cost 100/100 instead of 200/200, and reduce the time it takes to tech imo. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
Also, Banshee Cloak should be moved to Fusion Core | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On September 09 2011 03:11 Zzoram wrote: They should just buff Zealot/Stalker and move Sentry up to Citadel Also, Banshee Cloak should be moved to Fusion Core lol...just...maybe if you buff zealots and stalkers by doubling their damage and health. Protoss early game with no forcefields...that will fix everything. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 09 2011 03:13 Olinim wrote: lol...just...maybe if you buff zealots and stalkers by doubling their damage and health. Protoss early game with no forcefields...that will fix everything. Ahh... then the resurgence of 2gate PvZ.... *shutters* | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On September 09 2011 03:11 Zzoram wrote: They should just buff Zealot/Stalker and move Sentry up to Citadel Also, Banshee Cloak should be moved to Fusion Core How to stop marauders? >< Endless kite QQ | ||
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izgodlee
Canada133 Posts
On September 09 2011 01:47 unoriginalname wrote: You mean like DongRaeGu taking out nearly everyone despite being in Code B? Because no way that Code B players should be defeating the best players in the world... drg got owned by tester, 2-0, and tester just dropped to code A. I dont see your point. | ||
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Deekin[
Serbia1713 Posts
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tiaz
Sweden231 Posts
On September 09 2011 01:42 SniXSniPe wrote: <-High Random Masters Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm more of the side that Zerg is the best race (except on crappy imbalanced maps like Antiga). I would venture to say Z>T>P, with more of P's downside being ZvP being highly difficult to win. Yeah, ok and I totally have no problem with your oppinion, I'm not against any discussion at all. Sorry if anyone believed that. What I'm turning against is the constant posting and accusations of "whining" which very often lacks any argument what so ever. In my opinion the fact that Code S next season will be a terran fest like no one ever has seen before is a valid argument. If theres 20 T, and not even 20 Z and P together, something is fishy. Just popping in and saying "Stop whining", is NOT a valid argument in that debate. Atleast thats my opinion. | ||
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Tanuki
Russian Federation51 Posts
Also, Mana seems like a very nice guy. I used to consider him "plain" and uninteresting, but the few resent tournaments (eg. Assembly) completely changed my perspective. Besides, he is quite young even for e-sports, so looking ffwrd to seeing more of him in the future. Photos are gr8. Thanks again for the article. TL rocks (as always!)) | ||
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Dikkbutt
Sweden193 Posts
On September 09 2011 02:02 moofang wrote: I think the point is not so much whether or not Puma is a clearly weaker player than MC. It's more of MC basically representing the pinnacle of protoss play while Puma is one of very many skilled Terrans who, though amazing, still has a good ways to go before being able to be spoken in the same breath as Mvp/Nestea. The thrust of the article and most of the arguments defending it is that MC isn't exactly in a slump. He and the very best of the protoss players are struggling against the current metagame and have lost control of their game - in the sense that they are losing games where they are hard pressed to be able to identify what they "did wrong" and how they could do better if they played the same game again. The protoss players in their A-game are still effectively rolling dice against the metagame - they can clinch some games, maybe stay in Code S, but I'm not sure I can name any protoss at the moment that I can with a straight face say has a reasonable chance of winning the next GSL. I Cant even say a protoss im sure is gonna stay ni Code S, Would be hongun cause he just gets through time and time again somehow  | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 09 2011 01:42 SniXSniPe wrote: <-High Random Masters Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm more of the side that Zerg is the best race (except on crappy imbalanced maps like Antiga). I would venture to say Z>T>P, with more of P's downside being ZvP being highly difficult to win. PuMa's win ratio on TLPD in Korea was about 70% overall. Code A is very difficult to make it through--- there are a LOT of high level players so it should be expected many would struggle to get through (MMA, DRG, for example). I think people who play Random have absolutely terrible perceptions on balance, as they experience a completely different matchup than the rest. I think Zerg is easier to play than Terran, but I garner Terran is slightly stronger than Zerg at the top level. At a level of merely "high masters" (assuming 1200+ pts), you're not good enough to fully exploit Terran, especially on NA ladder, yet you can much more easily exploit Zerg. The reason why I don't like random users' opinions (personally), is that they don't experience the traditional builds other races use against them. And Zerg benefits the most, by far, from random. Protoss won't forge FE you, Terran won't 2rax you or gas first hellion opening you. It's far easier to play, consequently, which is a reason why Z is often cited as the OP race by random users, imo. Just checked your profile, and I'd say 1100+ points counts as high masters regardless imo, so nvm about that earlier stated 1200 criteria :D. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
"TeamLiquid agrees that protoss is underpowered" I bet people would be referencing this article for a while.... | ||
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cmen15
United States1519 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
On September 08 2011 18:01 Kishuu wrote: If you think PvT is fine with all this 1/1/1 thing and this is the way it is supposed to be played, as tree.hugger said, you are blind. Where did I say PvT is fine? I said I don't think MC's PvT has gotten any worse, implying that his recent losses have been due to the resurgence of 1/1/1 and the general realization that there are a fuck ton of ways to abuse the Protoss race's inability to actually do jackshit about anything. Because the article was talking about the state of PvT and MC's fall, I decided to make a comment about the state of MC's PvZ, which is actually why he's in Code A. MC didn't drop down to Code A because of PvT -- as I said, Jjakji did not play perfectly against MC and could have been beaten had MC not clumped up his HTs -- he dropped down because he couldn't beat 2/3 of the Zergs in his pool, one of whom is, at best, simply "good." Saying that MC's in Code A because of PvT is absurd, given that his group was 1 Terran and 3 Zergs. He went to the Up/Down matches because of PvT -- whether or not the Terran strategies used were imbalanced is up for you to decide, as I can hardly remember anything that happened past MVP's contain -- but his fall to Code A had little to do with PvT and more to do with PvZ. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
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. Has MC impressed people so much with his mechanics and decision-making that, if he was a T player, he would be at least 2x better (and luckier) than MVP or Bomber? I doubt even Flash would be able to accomplish such feats, given the volatility of this game. 
