EPT[GSL] "Gods of War" - March Finals Preview - Page 17
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
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Viperzero
Australia70 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:18 jorge_the_awesome wrote: Just a question about the GSTL: Since oGs and TL are essentially the same team, will Jinro and Huk possibly be in the GSTL? Jinro went up with the rest of the team to congratulate MC, and they do practice together/live together. I want to see HuK and Jinro in the GSTL (along with MC and NaDa of course). I believe Gom considered ogs as OGS-TeamLiquid in the last GSTL, though I could be mistaken, however they also had TeamLiquid in the points system as a seperate entity as well. Purely enjoyed the Dancing Zealots and Nexus in July's main. Those kind of mental games must have hit really hard if July had any doubts. On March 19 2011 17:31 cheesemaster wrote: Everyone fails to mention roach burrow movement with a the unit composition mc had being wayyy to sentry heavy he would have lost his army so fast had july zerg got burrow movement and just popped up right on mc's army especially considering i dont think mc made a robo in any of the games. He had a robo in the 3rd set, but lost to the hydra drop before it saw any use I do believe. | ||
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ShampooSuicide
United States58 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:29 Disarm22 wrote: true no one may use as many sentries as MC atm but now he just showed us how OP they are vs zerg. It will now become very popular and my guess is standard at the pro level. Zerg CANNOT stay on one base vs a toss unless it's roach cheese. The FF exploits the fact that zerg must expand. Simply FF the ramp constantly and then split the army with the rest of your FF's. Anyone who watched the finals has to agree to some extent that FF are ridiculous vs zerg in the early game. I have to agree there, watching the battles. Though July did make a lot of units to prepare for MC he still got crushed. We will have to see if people would be able to copy MCs FF ability. MC already made the 6 warp gate push explode in popularity probably mass sentry pushes now. In the final game though, July made some bad choices in engagements but the first 2 matches the FF just gave him no chance. | ||
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qwert_
Germany31 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:33 ShampooSuicide wrote: I have to agree there, watching the battles. Though July did make a lot of units to prepare for MC he still got crushed. We will have to see if people would be able to copy MCs FF ability. MC already made the 6 warp gate push explode in popularity probably mass sentry pushes now. In the final game though, July made some bad choices in engagements but the first 2 matches the FF just gave him no chance. just not true, read cheesemaster's and my post just 3-4 minutes ago, there was no micro by july at all (and once he even had burrow movement) | ||
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ShampooSuicide
United States58 Posts
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Disarm22
United States151 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:35 qwert_ wrote: just not true, read cheesemaster's and my post just 3-4 minutes ago, there was no micro by july at all (and once he even had burrow movement) By the time he had burrow movement it was too late. In order to be properly prepared like you say, he would have needed 2 roach warrens with burrow and burrow movement training simultaneously in order to have a fair chance at surviving. Burrow alone was completely useless in the situations we witnessed. | ||
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Kair0s
33 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:30 qwert_ wrote: you also need to take into consideration that for 2 games MC didn't have any detection and July had burrow, yet he only used it like once at the beginning of one of the games. could've done way better with that by dodging the FFs (or even burrowing the damaged roaches, but I can't recall seeing any micro by july there). That's just the one thing that makes the big differences, Protoss really have to be on the edge of micro, when all zerg and terran (for the most part) are doing is a-move It's kindof impossible to micro when your surrounded by half a dozen FFs FFs are clearly overpowered vs zerg, why eles would MC use a ton of them every single game.. pretty boring finals, I was hopping to see atleast one good macro/late game. | ||
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mostwanted
83 Posts
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ShampooSuicide
United States58 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:40 Disarm22 wrote: By the time he had burrow movement it was too late. In order to be properly prepared like you say, he would have needed 2 roach warrens with burrow and burrow movement training simultaneously in order to have a fair chance at surviving. Burrow alone was completely useless in the situations we witnessed. Burrow is upgraded at any hatch once you have a lair, so this one doesn't make much sense. As well as roach speed doesn't effect how fast they move while burrow i don't think? so just one. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
Also hydras with range and him playing defensively he would have done much better on the shakuras game, Hydras off creep (facepalm), also if this was july's new style it clearly wasnt working for him i think if he had tried to be more aggresive earlier on he may have done better if not then playing defensively with burrow movement against mc's only gateway armies would have won him some games there is no doubt in my mind. Those games would have been macro games or turned into macro games had july been better at holding off pushes some of those games he lost himself. | ||
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Disarm22
United States151 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:43 ShampooSuicide wrote: Burrow is upgraded at any hatch once you have a lair, so this one doesn't make much sense. As well as roach speed doesn't effect how fast they move while burrow i don't think? so just one. Yes you are 100% right, its late and im tired. my misteak | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
Edit: im only in plat league but ive had zergs have burrow movement off of 2 base by the time i came with my 4 gate push and won against me. I just think july could have had it out alot earlier. | ||
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Disarm22
United States151 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:47 cheesemaster wrote: He scouts mc going mass sentries, he gets a quick lair and burrow movement, mc doesnt have an obs , he pops out right on top of all of mc's sentries and takes them out, no one thinks this would have changed things? or are we just going to say FF OPOPOP and ignore the counter to it. My guess is that you play toss so you will never think FF are OP vs zerg in early game. I do recall july burrowing and popping up on the sentries and stalkers and getting crushed regardless of the "counter" to it... | ||
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ShampooSuicide
United States58 Posts
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:49 Disarm22 wrote: My guess is that you play toss so you will never think FF are OP vs zerg in early game. I do recall july burrowing and popping up on the sentries and stalkers and getting crushed regardless of the "counter" to it... by the time he actually did that his army had already dwindled and was quite small , had he had it at the begining of the engagement things would have gone differently. Also even artosis said he unborrowed pretty late there, it wasnt actually on top of everything most of the units had passed by and were sitting right on his hatch by the time he unburrowed. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
also i dont recall july getting hardly any spine crawlers against most of those 6 gate pushes, spine crawlers are quite good against a 4 or 6 gate pure gateway armies. like ive said before hes used to being the aggreser and was probably planning on being aggresive shortly, so he wasnt thinking defensively at all wich is what you need to be doing against a style like MC's | ||
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Whatevers
Netherlands2 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:11 pandaBee wrote: No man when MC is ahead he KILLS but in all honestly they were quite even on the last one, it was just the FF and that DT that cinched it MC applies that to (game) wins =] not inside one game | ||
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Fenrisulf
United States325 Posts
On March 19 2011 17:49 Disarm22 wrote: My guess is that you play toss so you will never think FF are OP vs zerg in early game. I do recall july burrowing and popping up on the sentries and stalkers and getting crushed regardless of the "counter" to it... My guess is you probably lose a lot to protoss and find this as a great opportunity to blame your inability to win on race imbalance. Or maybe, because you see that blizzard is nerfing P in the PTR and protosses are doing well in GSL for once (and I mean protosses, not just MC), you are jumping on the bandwagon of "protoss OP nerf please". You may also think July is at the same skill level as MC just because he got to the finals or because of some silly BW fanboyism. July got OUTPLAYED, all there is to it. July decided to go for standard zerg play, MC saw a window of opportunity to punish that play. He had a perfect unit composition and perfect micro. July was not prepared for the attacks. -game over- If you truly think that toss is OP in PvZ, then do explain why Huk and banban lost to losirA, why anypro lost to July, why genius lost to FD, why Ace lost to Coca. If what MC did was so easy and imbalanced, anypro (lol) should be able to pull it off. You think the other toss players are too stupid to copy his "un-counterable" build? You think they don't want 50k in prize winnings? | ||
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Kisezik
Australia70 Posts
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On March 19 2011 18:03 Kisezik wrote: cheesemaster, the reason why ur still in plat is because you have too much confidence in what you think is correct. You have no idea how bad platinum league is, why ru so confident in ur own abilities that you'll judge, even a player like July? Because i really dont spend that much time playing the game and i think i am far better at analyzing then i am at playing the game. Im pretty sure if i seriously sat down and played alot of starcraft i could be in high diamond / masters league in a month or so regardless of the nerve damage i have in my right wrist that prohibits my mouse movement and accuracy quite a bit. stop pretending like you know anything about me. | ||
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