• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:48
CEST 02:48
KST 09:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off0[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris28Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
No Rain in ASL20? BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group B [ASL20] Ro24 Group C BWCL Season 63 Announcement [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3508 users

[SC2B] Filling the Void - Page 4

Forum Index > News
276 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 12 13 14 Next All
pedduck
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Thailand468 Posts
July 23 2010 13:36 GMT
#61
Good info. Thanks.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
July 23 2010 13:45 GMT
#62
I agree with alot of those ideas. However, I think the Sentry idea of blocking Emp would be pretty broken, unless sentries were made to be more expensive (or guardian shield used more energy). If you just had shield block emp, it would make the ghost useless in PvT, because near any army composition has some sentries in it. Although I could see it working if it cost the sentry more energy, thus eliminating any forcefield potential, so the player has to choose the trade off.

I totally agree with the baneling/storm changes most of all.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
Stacks
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway68 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 13:51:51
July 23 2010 13:47 GMT
#63
Great read, and some really good suggestions on mechanics and countering in general ! Your approach to "wow" potential is well worth a thought, i sure hope Blizzard follows up

EDIT: On the GS blocking EMP matter, if you made it so that the sentry having the shield up could not do anything else( not attack nor cast FF ), it would still make EMP`s viable by sniping that one Sentry, and demand more micro from the toss player to keep it up and running once that sentry is down.
...
LordofAscension
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States589 Posts
July 23 2010 13:54 GMT
#64
I'd just like to point this out:

Guest-347: As I hope your development team is aware, certain "tricks" have been found recently by the community. These include Void Ray "Fazing" wherin a player can manually attack different targets in rapid succession to artificially increase damage output, and a series of commands that enables (limited) infestor underground casting of Fungal Growth and Nueral Parasite. Is the dev team aware of these issues and how are they going to be addressed before launch?

DustinB: We are aware of the Void Ray fazing and we will be addressing that. I was not personally aware of underground casting of Infestor abilities. I'll go take a look.=)


Source

So hopefully Blizzard doesn't ruin the "wow" moment :/

~LoA
~WelCoMe tO My rEaLm SC:L - sclegacy.com
stet_tcl
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Greece319 Posts
July 23 2010 13:56 GMT
#65
Plexa, I was actually wondering what you had planned for your 20k and this sir has delivered

I agree with pretty much everything mentioned in the article and sincerely hope blizz takes some of this stuff into account...
Sc2 is very fun game to play but it could definitely use some more of this "wow" factor in units and abilities.
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
July 23 2010 13:58 GMT
#66
great post. i pre-ordered sc2 and i wasn't that excited to get it (particularly because I had a beta but my computer was crap), so i never really followed it. the article really opened my eyes to the game's potential, and with my new laptop I'm actually pretty excited for the game.

so thank you, plexa. and congrats on 20k!
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
July 23 2010 14:02 GMT
#67
very well done plexa. yay content!
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
nujgnoy
Profile Joined December 2009
United States204 Posts
July 23 2010 14:05 GMT
#68
sacrificial lamb T.T
Very thorough article ^^
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 14:07:42
July 23 2010 14:07 GMT
#69
Good Read Plexa! Thanks and congrats on the 20k! Only one question,(sorry if I missed where you talked about this) How can you do the same harass with voidrays against terran against zerg and what can they do to counter it?
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Hagan
Profile Joined February 2010
Luxembourg34 Posts
July 23 2010 14:10 GMT
#70
WOW! This article had that *wow* moment Great read and very interesting ideas that I think blizzard should take a look at and hopefully recognize the potential of it! Let's hope that such changes appear soon after the launch!
trevf
Profile Joined May 2010
United States237 Posts
July 23 2010 14:16 GMT
#71
I'm just glad blizzard is making the game and not OP. A 50 energy spell casted by a 50 min and 100 gas T1 unit nullifying a 150 / 150 gas T2unit's 100 energy spell. HOORAY BALANCE!!! They'd have to make the force field cost 125 energy at that rate.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
July 23 2010 14:17 GMT
#72
Fungal Growth which paralyses your units and deals a whopping 80 damage

Wait what? If it hits several units, sure it will easily do 80 damage. But afaik Fungal deals 32 damage per unit.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
lovewithlea
Profile Joined March 2010
168 Posts
July 23 2010 14:20 GMT
#73
great read.

the examples you used to show what a game needs to create wow effects were good chosen. even if some won't see through and just see you writing that sentries should counter EMP.

The point is not tell Blizz to make sentries counter EMPs. The point is to show which kind of design changes will improve wow effects
AncienTs
Profile Joined March 2010
Japan227 Posts
July 23 2010 14:27 GMT
#74
gut feeling tells me that fazing is a bug and will/ought to be removed...

but then again fazing requires so much focus that you can lose time managing other important things, namely, macroing
Starcraft Disclaimer Language: There is no imbalance, nothing is OP.
pksens
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom156 Posts
July 23 2010 14:28 GMT
#75
Nice article, it's nice to try and improve on micro mechanics and "wow" moments. I know you said this isn't a balance discussion & just a design one, but you can't have 1 discussion without the other because it's unrealistic. Spells need to have the methods, or you need to change other parts of the game to balance the changes out.
Basically you say:
Zerg: increase Infestor cast times, reduce baneling damage if sniped (not many banelings ever make it to the full front of a terran ball for example)
Terran: increase EMP cast times
Toss: buff Sentry guardian shield & increase storm DPS (longer duration)

Doesn't seem right.
AskJoshy
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1625 Posts
July 23 2010 14:28 GMT
#76
Is it sad that I know -exactly- which game one of the screenshots is from? =P

Red terran tanks being owned by banelings near the bottom = Sheth vs. MorroW ESL Ro16 Game 1 from July... 15th I think. =P
Heroes, Hearthstone, and SC2 videos: http://www.youtube.com/AskJoshy
durd
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12 Posts
July 23 2010 14:34 GMT
#77
I'd fill Plexa's void anytime.
Cleric
Profile Joined July 2010
United States34 Posts
July 23 2010 14:39 GMT
#78
Excellent post. I especially liked the baneling idea and the concept of the "wow" moment. I think SC2 has a lot of hidden secrets and I'm interested to see how several concepts play out as the game becomes more mature (e.g. warp tech for toss).
A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 14:55:36
July 23 2010 14:45 GMT
#79
Why not exploit the fact that Protoss units have shields instead of sacrificing units? Get two phoenix and charge on both of them without killing them or something. ^^

Interesting read.


Btw regarding micro, something I feel is ridiculous is "auto-micro" as I call it. I was playing around in scenarios once upon a time with Ghosts, target firing my marines.

You attack with the entire group and only the amount of ghosts it takes to kill the marine shoot. It takes 3 ghosts shot to kill a marine and when I tell 6 Ghosts to attack, only 3 actually do so.

You cannot overkill with ranged units, something I find crazy. Tanks too I believe? -_-
maru lover forever
SayTT
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2158 Posts
July 23 2010 14:48 GMT
#80
Great post, putting focus on a much needed topic to discuss. Just by looking at the different playstyle and how the gameplay has developed during beta you understand that this is a real question. The lack of wow factors must lie in the unit design and movement pattern, I dont think any game in its beta stages has gone under this immense pressure and testing by so many skilled players. Simply saying that players havnt figured out yet how to use the units wow factor just yet doesnt cover the whole story. Sure there are more likely many new stuff to come out of the current build but not enough to satisfy me and my nerdyness.
-,-
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL S2 Championship: Ro16
CranKy Ducklings109
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ketroc 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 938
Shuttle 628
ggaemo 57
NaDa 31
Dota 2
monkeys_forever631
Counter-Strike
Foxcn368
semphis_26
Super Smash Bros
Westballz75
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor159
Other Games
tarik_tv29906
gofns16451
summit1g11425
fl0m593
shahzam537
C9.Mang0516
JimRising 488
ViBE220
Maynarde132
PiGStarcraft114
ROOTCatZ1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1319
BasetradeTV58
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki0
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22598
League of Legends
• Doublelift5838
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
9h 12m
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
10h 12m
RotterdaM Event
14h 12m
Replay Cast
23h 12m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 9h
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 10h
Cure vs Classic
ByuN vs TBD
herO vs TBD
TBD vs NightMare
TBD vs MaxPax
OSC
1d 11h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 23h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
4 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
5 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
SC Evo League
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 3
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.