• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:53
CET 10:53
KST 18:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Foreign Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data analysis on 70 million replays BW General Discussion MBCGame Torrents
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 979 users

[SC2B] Filling the Void - Page 2

Forum Index > News
276 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Bswhunter
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia954 Posts
July 23 2010 10:17 GMT
#21
Void Rays are the new mutas!
Seriously thou, I agree with 90% of this. Force Fields are much more game changing than stim (IMO), but harder to pull off well.
I think forcefields will become much more effective once we start using maps with more open centers.
Stop browsing and do whatever it is you're supposed to do. TL will still be here when you get back
Tiptup
Profile Joined June 2007
United States133 Posts
July 23 2010 10:18 GMT
#22
Hmm, Force Field is pretty mean against a Zerg army. It doesn't just neutralize, it destroys (and not in a way that's ever fun for me to watch). I wish it had been balanced with ideas similar to these (which is not possible at this point, it seems). Ultralisks stamping them out makes them better but Ultralisks are rare to see.

Oh well, great article.
So certain are you.
Titanidis
Profile Joined April 2006
Greece132 Posts
July 23 2010 10:21 GMT
#23
On July 23 2010 19:12 nttea wrote:
Holy fucking shit this article is so incredibly right on everything... blizzard HAVE to pay attention to this!
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 19:08 Titanidis wrote:
i agree with what the article is proposing, i only want to point out that if these changes happen in zerg (fungal, banelings), some others should happen in terran as well balancewise or else zvt will be too hard.

the article isn't about changing the balance of the game, it was assumed that appropriate balance changes to the spells would be brought along with the proposed changes. And even more important than the practical suggestions, the principle behind the "wow" factor.


i know, it just didnt feel right not to comment this.
MuTT
Profile Joined July 2010
United States398 Posts
July 23 2010 10:22 GMT
#24
I agree with everything here 100%. Easy to learn and hard to master can give everyone what they want, from the noobs to the professional scene. Although it departs from a strategy game to more of a control game, that is what starcraft is; and its better off that way! Grats on 20k posts
MC's strength: confidence weakness: over confidence
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 23 2010 10:24 GMT
#25
I agree with everything in this article. I have been saying for a long time that EMP/Fungal needs a change to be dodgble. The strange thing is that they both used to be projectiles you could dodge so I don't think blizzard will revert back since they intentionally made them this way.
Clearout
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1060 Posts
July 23 2010 10:29 GMT
#26
This was a brilliant and well written article. Congrats on you 20k posts Plexa If Blizzard does not alter spell etc. as you suggest, I hope us players will find more "wow" usages for different units in the time to come.
really?
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 10:38:01
July 23 2010 10:31 GMT
#27
On July 23 2010 18:54 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 18:42 waffling1 wrote:
i was with you and going yah yah , wow, oh awesome, until:
Splitting your marines up, however, is a difficult thing since units in SC2 naturally clump together.

voids have greater range than marines (same range would be equally valid to my point). there's no way u can spread marines out enough to prevent fazing.

of course it will make it harder on the toss player physically b/c he has to be more accurate and take more time clicking, but ..... really? i suppose it will separate the noob fazers from the pros, but it's way easier to faze between split marines than it is to split the marines, especially since voids can back out, and the marines will have to be reseparated. way way way more micro for the marine user.
The point is that it's playable. Spreading your marines doesn't prevent fazing - but it makes it a lot harder to execute (especially if the Protoss is trying to multitask). Making the void rays run is good as well, since it increases the likelihood that they will lose their charge (especially against worse players). And that's the key to the whole thing, both sides of VR harass are dependent on execution. Good players will be able to retreat and not lose their charge and still be annoying, whereas someone like myself may be able to get off some hits and runs before leaving and a terrible player will just run away.


curious, how much spreading from the terran player do u think will be enough to be viable?
it just seems to me that the terran micro of spreading units is wayy more demanding than the void ray micro of fazing.

is it ok as long as the nearest two marines are not side by side, or does it require that not a single marine is side by side with another?



what do u think about for a counter: 1 viking + marines defense against viod rays? 111 is quite standard now, and the the range combination of the viking to land hits, and then have a wall of marines threaten with damage before the voids can land shots on the vikings might be viable?




but seirously, the entire article is so on the money. forward it to a balance design staff member...
Mellotron
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States329 Posts
July 23 2010 10:32 GMT
#28
I 100 percent agree. Thanks for putting into words/examples/videos what needed to be said. I hope Blizzard reads this and really thinks about what is being said here. Theyve been really good about listening so far. Id rather have them change these few small things and then work their way backwards tweaking any needed balance from there instead of leaving things how they are and hoping it "all works out later". The best thing about these ideas are mainly that they are completely true (which is always good har har!), but that they dont call for massive changes like additional units etc. And noobs wouldnt even really notice the difference. Its not like a huge change such as a new spell etc. It just makes some of the spells etc work in a way that makes things come down to a critical skill-based moment more. And whats great is it really makes it more interesting to watch and play in fact, not theory. There is no way these changes (or similar ones) wont improve the game.

Excellent article. Dustin if you are reading think long and hard about whats being said here.
Starcraft player since 1999
Valkola
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland128 Posts
July 23 2010 10:35 GMT
#29
Very nice read. I hope Blizzard is listening.
Mmm..
k!llua
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia895 Posts
July 23 2010 10:44 GMT
#30
apparently using patrol instead of attack move or regular move stops units from clumping up into a perfect ball.
my hair is a wookie, your argument is invalid
stoneric
Profile Joined April 2010
United States69 Posts
July 23 2010 10:45 GMT
#31
Amazing post, word for word.

Grats on 20k!

*poke* Blizzard, hey, listen! (in best Navi voice from Ocarine of Time)
sup?
RogerRus
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Norway87 Posts
July 23 2010 10:48 GMT
#32
Good post. Grats on the 20k. !

But: If the shield could block EMP, going for ghosts somewhat early in pvt would be too risky, it costs too much for the terran if it can be that easily blocked. To make a EMP blocking shield you would have to make sentries more expensive , or add a upgrade to do it. Most likely both. But maybe that would be a welcomed upgrade to the pretty much useless twilight council...

I would like something like what you said with fungal growth. But I think it would be fair to add some more benefit from it if its gonna be a delay on it, like making it so that units that walk into the area where it was casted, right after cast, gets stuck too.

And if theyre gonna make storm stronger as you suggest, they would have to add some cast time on that too. And I still think it would break the game for many beginners. Seeing all your marauders tanks and medivacs gets melted to a few HT because you didnt manage to react to the few dots on the minimap would break many a terran beginners heart.

And the fazing on the void rays are awesome! Had no idea about that :o
I would love to change the world, but they wont give me the source code!
Sting
Profile Joined May 2003
Serbia76 Posts
July 23 2010 10:58 GMT
#33
A superb article and definitely should be looked at by Blizzard. Cheers for the 20k and keep up the good work!
Resurrection : Life sux and then you die. And then, life sux again...
Baksteen
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Netherlands438 Posts
July 23 2010 11:00 GMT
#34
Nice read and gratz on 20k posts! I am curious how the game would play if they were to implement all your changes right now. It was well written, hope they read this
Derp Derp Derp
OminouS
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden1343 Posts
July 23 2010 11:17 GMT
#35
God I love the Void Rays, also, so cool that the 'inventor' got to name the trick 'Fazing', I hope we see more neat tricks with various units in the future.
On the 6th day JF made Reavers and on the 7th day JF put his opponent to rest
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 11:21:17
July 23 2010 11:20 GMT
#36
This article is amazing, if all of this stuff gets implemented I have no doubt that SC2 can become a better (to watch) game than BW. Of course, BW will always hold a special place in my heart <3

Edit: this should be a final edit. Plexa, you're outdone yourself <3 <3 <3

Edit2: But before it is an FE it needs spell/grammar checking. I noticed a few errors myself but I'm too drunk to remember them right now.
u gotta sk8
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
July 23 2010 11:26 GMT
#37
Great article Plexa, you pretty much hit the heart of what makes a competitive game interesting to watch and play.
SiegeFlank
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States410 Posts
July 23 2010 11:28 GMT
#38
Grats on 20k!

This article is very constructive and written with a great amount of clarity, definitely a high-quality read. While I do think that Blizzard does have more time to make changes, I really think that this article should be brought to their attention sooner rather than later.
Bird up
Jokah
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom74 Posts
July 23 2010 11:32 GMT
#39
Never has an article made so much sense. Blizzard needs to listen and implement all your suggested changes to spells. I love Starcraft as it is but it can still be so much better.
I've been quoted as saying "I don't like quotes".
DrakanSilva
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Chile932 Posts
July 23 2010 11:50 GMT
#40
awesome read!

It was a really really heart touching article!
i also hope blizzard listen to you! to us! to TL!.

keep up for another 20k posts!
In the beginning there was nothing... and then exploded
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 74
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 3114
Leta 1136
BeSt 733
firebathero 407
Killer 332
Zeus 329
910 262
EffOrt 217
Jaedong 200
Sacsri 140
[ Show more ]
Bale 135
sorry 125
Dewaltoss 100
JulyZerg 82
zelot 65
Mind 23
Sharp 21
Noble 19
Hm[arnc] 11
Terrorterran 6
Shinee 4
Dota 2
singsing4131
NeuroSwarm154
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0749
hungrybox284
AZ_Axe32
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor172
Other Games
summit1g10810
mouzStarbuck454
RotterdaM156
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 43
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota255
League of Legends
• Jankos2285
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8m
CranKy Ducklings5
WardiTV 2025
2h 8m
OSC
5h 8m
IPSL
7h 8m
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
10h 8m
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
23h 8m
Wardi Open
1d 2h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 6h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-04
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
Kuram Kup
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.