• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:25
CEST 04:25
KST 11:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0
Community News
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)59Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition245.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 154
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! 5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I'm making videos again BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game Whose hotkey signature is this?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Current Meta TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art Proposed Glossary of Strategic Uncertainty 9 hatch vs 10 hatch vs 12 hatch
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop the Construction YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How "Not Like Us" ripped of…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1133 users

[SC2B] Filling the Void - Page 3

Forum Index > News
276 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
ColorsOfRainbow
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany354 Posts
July 23 2010 11:55 GMT
#41
now we rly have to hope that blizzard not nerf this good way for micro on pro level !
Wayem
Profile Joined May 2010
France455 Posts
July 23 2010 11:56 GMT
#42
Pretty good article !

No biased commentary and QQ about this or that, wishing in a way that every race had the same units.

Congrats.
"who needs micro when you can have more stuff ?" -day9
laska
Profile Joined March 2010
Finland2 Posts
July 23 2010 12:09 GMT
#43
A thing that I think is missing here is "overfire". Don't you think it would be nice to see some well placed infested terran from a burrowed infestor right in the middle of some tanks which annihilate themselves? This would be, what you call, a "wow" effect. Also it would add some more tactics to it. Some suicide medivacs with one marine or something could do the same. What I think would be some super nice move, would be to just warp in a zealot with your proxy pylon and see the terran army die :D Also it would require more skill to watch out that your tanks actually DON'T kill themselves.

just my 2 cents.
NPF
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1635 Posts
July 23 2010 12:13 GMT
#44
This is a wonderfully written article. The ideas really don't change much for newer players since they don't often micro. I do have a similar concern about sentries and the possibility of blocking EMP.

I wouldn't go to the extreme and say they need to make that into an upgrade like a previous poster mentionned, but maybe they should make it that EMP and forcefield are closer to the same size so it's mostly impossible for a toss to completely block an EMP without 2 sentries that are spread out doing forcefield.

I really hope to see Blizzard place in more "wow" factors like you said. STORMMUU lol
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
July 23 2010 12:13 GMT
#45
That was a really good and well thought out post. I like the idea of making some units have more micro intensive abilities, but also stronger abilities. I hope blizzard listens.

And grats on 20k!!
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 12:17:59
July 23 2010 12:16 GMT
#46
WOW.

I'm very impressed with this. What really hit me was the idea of the delay on fungal. Playing Zerg, I just felt that the spell was so boring, and it's because it's so "point-click-instant results." Absolutely no skill involved from either player.

I'm sure there's no way they're changing anything more before the game ships, but I sincerely hope they consider this argument for the first patch.

Well done!
MutaDoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1163 Posts
July 23 2010 12:43 GMT
#47
Very well done, reading this was a nice way to wake up in the morning

Congrats on your 20k/6k!
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
July 23 2010 12:47 GMT
#48
On July 23 2010 19:14 Plexa wrote:
But wait, did I just say they are too hard to use effectively? Does this mean that there is more depth to this game than BW elitists would have you believe?! It most certainly does.


Really? REALLY?
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
July 23 2010 12:54 GMT
#49
This article is great, hopefully Blizzard will implement this stuff! I really liked the suggestion about Sentries vs EMP. EMP is such an easy mode "no more Storm+100 instant damage" spell vs Protoss. I had just wanted Feedback's range increased to deal with it, but the Guardian Shield blocking EMP is a really good idea. If they did alot more stuff with Guardian Shield blocking spells like that, with some proper balancing that would be a good mechanic.

Like lets say Guardian Shield could block other spells as well, like Fungal Growth or something. That alone would increase the spell's usefulness. If the mana cost is made just right, there could be tension between using Guardian force for anti-Spells, and using Force Field to keep units away. IMO the cost of a Sentry should probably be increased if these things happen, but I think it would be great. And it would force the otherside to have to time their spells right, and snipe the sentries.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 13:07:10
July 23 2010 12:57 GMT
#50
I play random and as P I use void rays a lot. That said I still think they are OP. They are like carriers in sc1 but moved to T2. They can be countered. But the counter takes just too much dedication too early on considering the efforts it took to tech to it: it is not balanced. "Fazing" or what ever it is called will make it even more overpowered once people get good enough to use it properly.The skill in sc never made any unit make twice (it can be even 3-4 times more if someone is that good with VRs) more damage without the other being able to do something about it. Yes someone could micro a vulture vs slowlings but there were things a zerg could do to prevent it. How do you prevent fazing? Spreading out is just a bad joke. People will still be able to do it unless every unit is half the screan away which is another bad joke. And that trick with phoenix is just really a BO win if the terran went too easy on anti-air or the example of void rays being OP... there is no skill sacrificing a phoenix as there is no skill in making a seige tank upgrade: you just have to know the game good enough to make use of it (nice trick btw).
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
July 23 2010 13:05 GMT
#51
Excellent read. It's good to have this on the front page because this is really important stuff.
WiljushkA
Profile Joined March 2006
Serbia1416 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 13:08:42
July 23 2010 13:05 GMT
#52
Force Fielding well will give you an edge, but it will be a slight edge - not like a Fungal Growth which paralyses your units and deals a whopping 80 damage, that's a battle changing ability.


fungal growth doesnt do 80 damage, in fact it doesnt deal half as much, it deals 36 dmg. other than that a decent article
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
FrogOfWar
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1406 Posts
July 23 2010 13:05 GMT
#53
Very interesting read and a lot of truth in there. Love the idea of force field blocking EMP for example. And theory aside, I will definitely try a void ray opening with charging up on a proxy pylon vs terran - might just give me an edge over those pesky marines. :D

Just three minor objections:

- I'm not under the impression that the popularity of the VR dropped much because of the range nerf, and if it did, it dropped to a healthy level. I see a lot of VR use in tourneys as well as on ladder. More VR use could be too much.

- Force Field no deciding factor? Too often I've seen a P force fielding in an army of 50ish Hydralisks (or even IdrAlisks) and just burning them up like nothing with Collossi to agree with that. Also it works wonders against an otherwise undefeatable T bioball to break it up into small chunks with FF. Considering how important army positioning is and that you can totally mess up your opponent's positioning with FF, I'd say it is a very deciding factor in many, many games.

- I'm also not sure what you mean by saying your suggestions wouldn't mess with balance, since making EMP dodgeable would obviously weaken T, making storm dodgeable would weaken P and so on.

I would be very impressed by Blizzard if we saw some reaction to your thoughts from them.
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
July 23 2010 13:08 GMT
#54
I like the article and how the wow factor translates into grabbing people's attention; however I think that given that SC2 has such expectations that it should already equal BW's "overpowered balance" - wherein a lot was overpowered, but was well balanced because proper counters, player skill and other overpowered abilities could balance each other in 1v1 matchups, Blizzard is being extremely conservative with unit power levels right now; and has focused on making them one-sided and macro oriented. However, I sincerely feel that they will tilt towards going for their old philosophy with HotS and LotV; like what they did with BW where seemingly OP units like the Lurker and DT combined with the synergy of units like the Medic and Corsair were mixed in.

Hope that Blizz is actually balancing everything "for the time being" i.e. for the current game, and does not forget to merge everything they'll eventually bring to the table into a synergistic, well-balanced tension with each other.
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 23 2010 13:10 GMT
#55
Ensnare vs Fungal is another good example. If you had amazing micro, ensnare might not screw you over. But fungal makes units STOP COLD. Much less exciting and dynamic.
YAOGaming
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden2 Posts
July 23 2010 13:12 GMT
#56
Hey! Long time reader, first time poster here!

I just made an account to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this article, and that this is exactly what I have felt is missing the entire sc2 beta! This cute kind of micro is really what makes sc:bw games so much more entertaining than sc2 ones currently to be honest!

I really hope blizzard listens to this post! well written and gratz on 20 000!
pilsken
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany441 Posts
July 23 2010 13:19 GMT
#57
Nice writeup.

One issue i don't agree with though:

Force Fielding well will give you an edge, but it will be a slight edge - not like a Fungal Growth which paralyses your units and deals a whopping 80 damage, that's a battle changing ability


FF doesn't give an "edge". FF IS a battle changing ability. FF can make a good toss entirely immune to any melee/low range unit, it can block ramps infinitly and once you hit a certain sentry count the shape of the map doesn't even matter anymore because with enough FF you can just entirely make your own chokes and walls, which are entirely impenetrable until thors/collosi/ultras come out. 6 sentries can hold of most of the ground forces in the game for infinite time from passing through a choke.

FF is easily as powerfull as Fungal, Storm or EMP and i'm pretty sure FFing will be one of the key abilites a skilled Protoss will need to compete.
pilsken
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany441 Posts
July 23 2010 13:22 GMT
#58
Nice writeup.

One issue i don't agree with though:

Force Fielding well will give you an edge, but it will be a slight edge - not like a Fungal Growth which paralyses your units and deals a whopping 80 damage, that's a battle changing ability


FF doesn't give an "edge". FF IS a battle changing ability. FF can make a good toss entirely immune to any melee/low range unit, it can block ramps infinitly and once you hit a certain sentry count the shape of the map doesn't even matter anymore because with enough FF you can just entirely make your own chokes and walls, which are entirely impenetrable until thors/collosi/ultras come out. 6 sentries can hold of most of the ground forces in the game for infinite time from passing through a choke.

FF is easily as powerfull as Fungal, Storm or EMP and i'm pretty sure FFing will be one of the key abilites a skilled Protoss will need to compete.
HubertFelix
Profile Joined April 2010
France631 Posts
July 23 2010 13:34 GMT
#59
I agree so much on banelings. Nerfing their dmg on death or remove them while adjusting their AE/dmg would be a great change for the game.
Butcherski
Profile Joined April 2010
Poland446 Posts
July 23 2010 13:36 GMT
#60
Everything in this article is perfect except this one sentence.

"Force Fielding well will give you an edge, but it will be a slight edge - not like a Fungal Growth which paralyses your units and deals a whopping 80 damage, that's a battle changing ability."

Force Field is a game changing ability. Just look at the recent idra vs tester games or ask any zerg player And fungal growth does 36dmg over 8 seconds. And it doesnt stack. Its not like zerg can fg your army and then use their other aoe spell. Other than that great job and i hope blizz will take notice.
"Well Tasteless, i once met a three-toed sloth with good marauder control " - Artosis
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 140
PiLiPiLi 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever487
League of Legends
JimRising 694
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 171
Other Games
summit1g7187
C9.Mang0229
ViBE171
Skadoodle153
WinterStarcraft126
UpATreeSC121
JuggernautJason15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick894
BasetradeTV98
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler33
League of Legends
• Doublelift4429
• Stunt148
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
35m
davetesta0
CranKy Ducklings
7h 35m
Map Test Tournament
8h 35m
OSC
12h 35m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
15h 35m
Safe House 2
15h 35m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
Map Test Tournament
1d 8h
OSC
1d 9h
IPSL
1d 16h
Bonyth vs Art_Of_Turtle
Razz vs rasowy
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Barracks vs Snow
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Bisu
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.