EPT[SC2B] Filling the Void - Page 6
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
I understand how you can say that these changes dont require rebalancing since they deal the same dmg and have the same effect as before and now it is basically down to the player and his/hers skill that determines how and if they hit enemy units. However this also changes the dynamics of the game in how challenging these are to use hence how much they actually affect the game when used. If e.g. fg becomes too hard to use it surely will not have the same effect overall. Someone posted before me and recalled how fg was before it was instant, that is a situation that definitely needs balancing. And to talk some more about fungal growth. Some posters before me have pointed out the factual errors but stalkers can still blink when under fg and vikings can change between air and land mode(cant recall their exact names right now). I'm pretty sure warp prism can change between pylon mode and flight mode(again with the names :D) as well even though it is under fg. Units can basically do anything but move when under fg. Overall, again, well written article and I agree alot of these changes should make it into the game simply for the fact it would make for better entertainment(and sc2 is damn well entertaining as it is already). Just needs the proper balancing that simply doesnt remove the wow moments. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
Also, forcefield -IS- a game changing spell. It suddenly turns the fight thats a 120 Food versus 120 Food army into a 120 Food versus 80-90 food army. Spamming forcefields really isn't a hard thing to do, and any mediocre toss can use forcefields with game-breaking effectiveness | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
I hope people from blizzard are going to read it as well. Small changes could make this game even better | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On July 23 2010 23:28 pksens wrote: Nice article, it's nice to try and improve on micro mechanics and "wow" moments. I know you said this isn't a balance discussion & just a design one, but you can't have 1 discussion without the other because it's unrealistic. Spells need to have the methods, or you need to change other parts of the game to balance the changes out. Basically you say: Zerg: increase Infestor cast times, reduce baneling damage if sniped (not many banelings ever make it to the full front of a terran ball for example) Terran: increase EMP cast times Toss: buff Sentry guardian shield & increase storm DPS (longer duration) Doesn't seem right. These are just suggestions to improve the dynamics of the game. If it turns out that giving spine crawlers wings and letting ultralisks carry banelings on their backs and throw them at the opposing army improves these dynamics, then by all means change the game in that direction. Plexa is merely offering suggestions in how to improve game dynamics. I'm sure that there are plenty of other changes that could be made that favor other races. And also, it's not like you can't rebalance fungal growth to deal more damage if you increase infestor cast time, or increase baneling AoE and damage when they hit to compensate for lack of damage upon death. That's why balance isn't an issue in this article. It's merely focusing on pointing out ways the game can be improved for both the average player and the competitive player. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
I've always thought that FG and EMP not having a cast/travel time (or having one so short it's practically instantaneous) was really retarded. Make the cast/travel time like Maelstrom and EMP from BW, respectively! It worked perfectly before so why not use it now? Don't fix what ain't broke, right? Additionally, the baneling change is, imo, one of the #1 things that need to be changed. Keeping it as is would be as if every time you killed a spider mine it did damage anyway. I mean, if that was the case, this couldn't happen! I remember when I first saw this game, I shit bricks. It was amazing. I would absolutely love to see this kind of skillful micro happen again in SC2, except this time with banelings. The only thing I disagree with was your idea about the Guardian Shield change. I think that'd be a little too strong. GS already covers quite a large area and it'd be very easy for Protoss to just cover his entire army with a few sentries. Furthermore, if they clump all their casters under a GS, then the Terran really can't EMP those casters! I think that'll actually take away some of that "wow" factor. Although I do believe that it'd be nice to somehow tweak GS so that eliminating sentries that are using GS would be more beneficial, but this probably shouldn't be as high on the priority list when compared to the other stuff. Grats on 20k post!!! | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
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nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
Fungal/EMP/Storm would be better if they had casting animation and a charging sound similar to Yamato cannon so opponent knows they are coming. Too bad this idea was brought this late in the game so Blizzard might not want to "try it out" in release. AOE range/Mana cost/unit cost might need some tweaking in the process. Upgrade on Guardian shield sounds cool, but it would need to be researched in a higher tier building like twilight council and it would be reduction of EMP's effect rather than 100% immunity. I'd love to see more ways for Terran to manouver in microbattles, similar to fazing with Void rays. Mass Ghost sniping is my favorite against zerg.  | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Also one day I'm going to catch up to you in posts ^_^ | ||
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Full
United Kingdom253 Posts
Really good read, and i agree with everything you have said. More of these mechanics would definitely make the game much more fun to play, and much more interesting to watch. Gotta try some of that void ray stuff myself :O | ||
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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palanq
United States761 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
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Lovin
Denmark812 Posts
Congratulations on 20k.  | ||
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OHtRUe
United States283 Posts
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NIIINO
Slovakia1320 Posts
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lovewithlea
168 Posts
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ExcessEnemy
United States8 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
its not about balancing the game, some of u say "if u do this then zerg is bad", assuming blizzard did the micro changes then they would also buff the units so they gave a more reward. for example make fungual more dodgable and add 20 damage to it, w/e. we are not talking about stats here since blizzard is better at that we are just saying when 2 players interact in a micro battle both of them should have a say of whats going on. emp is not dodgable therefor toss doesnt have a say, except for spreading his units BEFORE the battle, but BEFORE the battle doesnt really count if u ask me. if banes just died upon death blizzard would have to buff them so they did more dmg to reward the zerg for keeping them alive and getting an attack off, so thats the topic here. reward ppl to be able to pull off hard things where both where the enemy can stop u from doing it by good micro or u can pull it off by good micro or tactics. force field isnt wow unit even tho its strong, but it adds alot of deph into the game without being wow so thats why it doesnt have to be changed. guardian shield has the concept of wow because toss wanna have it in the middle of the army but far away so terran cant snipe it and terrans goal is to snipe it asap, but in reality guardian shield doesnt do enough to make it worth the while for terran, hence alot of micro going on between the players depending on different situations and positioning. same with neutral parasite, sure u cant dodge it but u can kill the infestor off and the spell is useless. so things like stimpack require tons of micro, toss can fake move in to force a stim then back off but it still goes down to a terrans timing of stimpack, stimpack too early and ull need 2 stims during a battle, stim too late and u wont deal enough damage. its not a wow spell but its damn deep enough to add tons of micro, just like force field. so sure u can drop banelings from overlords or burrow them in the ground but terran has no say in the situation anyway. either his tanks rape them in 1 shot by hard counter or bio cant kill them at all because of hard counter, not micro, we want zergs to be able to use banelings effectivly even if terrans has tanks and we want terrans to be able to pull off some sexy micro vs banelings even if he doesnt have tanks. sc2 is too unit composition heavy and even if the game end up balanced u will be forced to make certain unit compositions rather than being forced to micro, and this is bad for the game as a spectator sport | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
Your ideas would make it so void rays have NO counter, and that using a cheap ass skill that already does so much against terran bio armies (terran has virtually no melee units, so guardian shield IS effective and doesn't need change). Playing TvP would be just as worthless as it was in the first 5 patches. | ||
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